TonyZXT Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 I just did a search, and can't believe that more people aren't talking about this swap. Has anyone looked into this? Godzilla posted a teaser pic over at zcar.com with a pic of him standing beetween his 240, and a 350z with his tape measure out. At least I know a few people are thinking about this swap. I'm just really curious of the level of difficulty. If it is really a pain (i.e lots of fabrication, and cutting or expensive steering interference problems)then I will probably just forget about it. Obviously this is new terretory, and the first few times will always be a learning experience, but I'm looking for educated speculation based on measurements, and facts. Like, if you decided to ditch the stock ecu and go with a tec3 or haltech, would the drive by wire system present a road block? Would it be feasable to use the stock ECU? Are there any fairly obvious clearance issues? I guess if the stock exhaust manifolds posed a problem with hitting the steering, a header upgrade might solve that. Does anyone have a new Z or a friend with one? Feel like taking some measurements? Beyond all that I thinkt that this swap makes good sense. An alluminium motor that makes good power in stock form, (and an aftermarket that is picking up steam pretty quickly) in a light car. Keeping everything Nissan while you're at it. I for one would rather do this than a V8 swap andy day of the week! What do you guys think? Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Toney, All your questions are why I would not want to do the swap. V-8 swap is well documented and farly straigntfoward now. With the 3.5 you risk having more in fab and R&D than a new Z would cost. If you have the cash and or skills by all means, go for it. Just post alot of pics an keep us updated. MArk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyZXT Posted February 26, 2003 Author Share Posted February 26, 2003 I'm counting on someone else being tempted into doing the swap before me Just think if everybody felt the way you do about every new swap, this website wouldn't exist! Sometimes swaps can be fairly straightforward, and our Z's large engine bay helps allot. Most swaps into the Z are easier than the average swap (assuming a swap from one engine family to another.) There have been a couple that I would not attempt because everyone that has done them has said they were a pain in the butt (like the vg30dett, or LS1/t-56 swaps) I think if done right, someone could have a 240z w/ a VQ35, and body, nterior, and suspension done, with some nice mods for about the price of the average 350z. They would have a unique ride, that by all rights would be as good as a new car. Also, you would have a 800# wieght advantage over a new Z. I love the new Z, and am really debating between getting one, or getting another 240, and making it into a new hybrid Z! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Toney, Not trying to throw cold water on your idea at all. Just that some guys get in way over there head (not saying you, just don't know you) and before they know it, end up selling there stuff off at pennies on the dollar. I went and drove the new Z the other day and really liked it. Wife even was pushing me to get one. Told the salesman, when it's got a turbo or two I'll be back. I think that motor and tranny in an old Z would be a sweet ride. Light weight good torque and all aluminum. Would love to see someone else do it first. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyZXT Posted February 26, 2003 Author Share Posted February 26, 2003 Yeah I've seen guys do that too, it never ceases to amaze me how people can throw gobs of money at something and then loose their ass selling it. I have already gone part way on a project and then had to ditch it once, but I didn't loose much money on the deal, just ran into cancer in the framerails. If I was going to do another project, I would plan extensively, making sure I knew before hand how much the labor end of it was going to cost me. This is a bit of an unrealistic project for me right now, but if it turns out to be a relatively simple swap then I will get a really solid car to start with, and make sure I had enough left over for the swap. Worst part is the PERFECT Z body was for sale here about 2 months ago, painted my favorite color (flawless candy apple red paint) and I didn't quite have the liquid cash for it. Had a redone interior, new suspension, not a spec of rust..... Timing of deals is what always gets me! Oh well, I'll just keep my eyes peeled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavD3 Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Tony, I was wondering about the same swap.Unfortunatly there is not enough information about it.I think current price of VQ35DE is what stop people.Couple years from now,those engiens could be found in yards who specialize on inport cars.Until then prepare to spend A LOT OF MONEY to get engine,tranny,sensors,ets. Right now it's more easy just to get LT1 with tranny of your choice and get almost same HP in basic engine or spend extra and get your desired hp and torque from well documanted swap.Or go for L28 turbo set up.So we have to wait until someone who can afford this swap now, or spend next few years to gathering information and updating our brakes,suspension, and looking for LSD. As for is it possible, well i think everything is possible.Time is on our side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyZXT Posted February 27, 2003 Author Share Posted February 27, 2003 The more I think about this, the more I think I will end up with a 350z. I would much rather have the 2400# tricked out 240, but I don't know if I can afford to dump that much money into a car, and not be able to drive it for that amount of time. Maybe if I bought a 240z with a good motor that was good enough for a daily driver, and prepare to do the swap quickly, then it could work out. Then again, someone else will have to attempt this swap and prove it can be done relatively quickly. I keep on thinking that the perofrmance for the hybrid with about $28k dumped into it would far outway the performance of the stock 350z for the same price. Oh well, I guess I'll just go back to dreaming about my light little Z with a supercharged VQ35, and 50-75 shot of NOS, and kenesis wheels, and.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaniel Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 I like your idea. The 350z has a nice engine and a 6 speed. Getting parts could be a proble for awhile. IF you reuse all the engine management stuff from the 350z There shouldn't be any problems. Don't know about fit. Can't help you there. I can tell you that the maxima, pathfinder and 350z all have different oil pans and intakes. Best I can tell The pathfinder engine would probably bolt up to the 350z trans. It also looks like any VQ block will bolt to the z350 trans but the oil pan being different will miss the oil pan to trans bolts (and starter issues). I should know some more about this tonight I don't know why everyone worries about drive by wire. Just get the Accelerator assy from a 350z attach the wires and away you go. The issue rarely mentioned but more of a bite is the KEY. The key has a transponder in it so without the right Key and ignition or some thing the ECU won't run. The ECU can be reprogrammed (by the dealer only) for a new key but some sort of antenna is in or around the ignition switch that would have to be swapped. This started in 1999 in the maxima as well. The motors are extremely light, the VQ30de-k INCLUDING intake, TB, exhaust manifold and engine wiring harness but without p/s, a/c, alternator or clutch is aprox 180lbs. No kidding. 2 people can lift it quite easily. The 6 speed seems pretty typical weight (have a 350z trans on the floor of my garage right now) don't have a weight for it. It may be possible to take a maxima engine instead of the 350z. Intakes are different, oil pan is different, Coolant pipe out the rear of the heads comes out the opposite side. Oil filter is located on the front on the maxima, side on the 350, front angled down on the pathy. The VQ engines do not share trans bolt patterns with the VG's. Pathy 5 speeds are rare and 350z's are hard to come by. The engine is probably easier to get. I'm putting in a VQ30DE-K because it was cheap ($250) but could have went with a VQ35DE for a bit more. I got my 350z trans for $500 (trans has 527 miles on it). I think the swap could be done without dumping a ton of money. Oh, Note that the intake on the 350z and maxima both exit to the REAR of the engine, The 350z does a 180 and comes back to the front. The pathy dups out the side. The pathy starter is on the right, 350z on the left maxima is on the trans. The 350 z trans has bumps that looks like will accomodate either right or left starter. About all I know right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavD3 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 If VQ35DE have this ECU wich need the key to be activated, can we simply dump original one and use aftermarket one like SDS or Haltec? IMO couple years from now when used VQ35DE engines will be available at reasonable price many people will start thinking about such swap in Z cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaniel Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 If VQ35DE have this ECU wich need the key to be activated' date=' can we simply dump original one and use aftermarket one like SDS or Haltec? IMO couple years from now when used VQ35DE engines will be available at reasonable price many people will start thinking about such swap in Z cars.[/quote'] Yes all the newer cars are using Transponder keys now. I would expect a stand alone version would work as long as it can control the "control by wire" throttle body. Once I get a few more things done I'll tackle the Key problem. I think it'll be cheaper than a stand alone. The vq35de motors are pretty common as they are in the Maxima, Pathfinder, Some Altimas, the G35, and 350Z. Most are attached to FWD and or Automatics. I think the trans will be the harder thing to find. I went with the VQ30DE as it was cheaper and I wasn't sure it was all going to work out. Looks like it may. If it does I may have to upgrade later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 But if you replaced the ECU with an aftermarket variant, then the engine wouldn't be all Nissan anymore! Just yanking your chain. Guess I have never understood the fascination some people have with that statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 If VQ35DE have this ECU wich need the key to be activated, can we simply dump original one and use aftermarket one like SDS or Haltec? But if you replaced the ECU with an aftermarket variant' date=' then the engine wouldn't be all Nissan anymore! Just yanking your chain. Guess I have never understood the fascination some people have with that statement.[/quote'] Me either, Jim. Especially when they say/write it on HybridZ.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavD3 Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 JIm and PParaska,to be honest ,i have no idea what you are talking about. Using aftermarket ECU doesn't make car less Nissan, as well as using original ECU more Nissan ( at least for me ), it was just a one of the way i was thinking to solve problem.Many people use L28et with SDS and i don't think this set up is wrong or half Nissan or not Nissan at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Keeping everything Nissan while you're at it.Tony My point is why would you want to keep it all Nissan? How does that improve anything? Most go fast parts are aftermarket. Even Z's with the stock engines are usually heavily modified with non OEM parts. Why would you have a preference for a specific engine simply because the manufacturer once offered it in another vehicle? If it were a bolt in deal, then that is one thing. But you guys are going around and around about how much work and money this swap would be. I suppose a Renault engine swap would also be more cool than an American V8. After all, they own Nissan. Oui Oui. Maybe you could find an old DeLorean in a JY somewhere. Besides, you violated the cardinal rule of HybridZ. This site use to have a nice mission statement telling everyone how the founding fathers started this site when they got tired of anti-V8 talk on zcar.com. I guess most of you haven't seen that, but if you look in any of the forums there is a rule about such "purist" statements. You also might want to look at the thread about the moderators having a short fuse. People need to read the rules or face being banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavD3 Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Gees, Jim, you are picking at the WRONG GUY!!!!! I don't really care about originality of my 240z, i just like VQ35de idea, and that's all, i like V8 in first generation either.Personally i don't really care if i had a Renault engine or american V8 in my car.I just want to have a nice 240z with powerful engine and nice handling set up as for originality you quote first time me and then diferent guy.And i moved here from Zcar.com because i don't plan to restore car to it original '73 condition.My project is almost over and now i'm thinking about getting second Z and have something interesting under the hood.V8/RB/SR/whatever i can afford and put together! And i think this is a great site for such idea. So next time please don't think that if someone asks questions about any Nissan product he is purist and wants everything to be Nissan only.Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Jim was saying that tongue in cheek. He was making fun of people saying "keep it all Nissan", knowing full well that an ECU would be seen as an acceptable "swap" by anyone. I was just echoing his joke - "all Nissan". Like the label on the engine means ANYTHING to the air and fuel being used to propel the car! So DavD3, I don't think Jim or I were jumping on you - just the silly idea of "all Nissan" in some way being "superior", the way it is sometimes used around here and other places where Z people congregate. We realize you weren't saying the Z is better off all Nissan, but TonyZXT made a statement in his original post that sounded that way to me, and probably Jim as well. Hopefully, I'm not assuming too much when I speak for Jim here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 What Pete said. This was actually a pretty good thread with a number of very knowledgeable posts. But unfortunately the opening post started out with the attitude it did and kind of set the tone for the ones to follow, whether they fit or not. So didn't mean to single you out, DavD3 and sorry if I offended you. You just happened to be the last guy who posted before I decided to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fairlady Luvr Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 The vq35de motors are pretty common as they are in the Maxima' date=' Pathfinder, Some Altimas, the G35, and 350Z. Most are attached to FWD and or Automatics. I think the trans will be the harder thing to find. I went with the VQ30DE as it was cheaper and I wasn't sure it was all going to work out. Looks like it may. If it does I may have to upgrade later.[/quote'] Quite right... the differences between the RWD 350 and the FWD Maxima, Alti, etc set-up can be a set back. Also, don't forget the FWD cars only have 240HP (I know Nissan says the Maximas have 255 & 265 but that's BS). I hear guys on maxima.org who oooh and ahhh over new 350z parts but don't realize that few of these parts work on their cars. If you want a VQ35 then get the 350/G35 version for RWD and save yourself even more of a head ache. BTW, I never hear complaints a/b the drive by wire systems. my $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DaneL24 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I would imagine that the stock exhaust of the VQ35 would interfere with the steering column shaft going through the corner of the engine bay in an early Z. The other big interference issue is the oil pan/front cross member. Here is what I would expect for a basic VQ35 swap into an early Z: -350Z Engine/Tranny/Driveshaft -Custom Motor/Tranny Mounts...either mount motor/tranny so shifter sticks out of the center console in the proper position, or position motor/tranny for proper weight distribution and figure out shifter issues. With such a light motor...weight distrbution shouldn't be a big issue. -Fabricated Exhaust (possibly also to provide clearance between exhaust and steering column) -Spliced 350Z/Early Z Driveshaft (Using 350Z tranny and early Z diff) -Possibly modified or fabricated oil pan for front crossmember clearance -All stock electronics or aftermarket systems -Stock early Z radiator? Don't know waterjacket capacity of VQ35 vs L-series... A lot of this is obvious...but somebody had to put forward at least a basic plan for a swap. I think it would be a cool...basically put a 350Z on an 800 lb. diet and thats how it would be performance wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaniel Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 I would imagine that the stock exhaust of the VQ35 would interfere with the steering column shaft going through the corner of the engine bay in an early Z. The other big interference issue is the oil pan/front cross member. Here is what I would expect for a basic VQ35 swap into an early Z:. The interference with the front of the pan could be a big problem. The 350 and the maxima (altima too?) use a front sump oil pan. The pan is cast aluminum and the oil passages to the oil filter and oil pressure switch are cast into the pan. Modifying it would take some talent. The pathfinder pan has a rear sump but the sump is VERY deep. 3-4" below the bottom of the trans. SO for me anyway that is out. My project with the Rx-7 Is having clearance issues but I think I'll solve them by cutting the firewall and moving the engine back a bit. Oh, I believe I read the driveshaft on the 350 is carbon fiber so forget splicing. Just have a custom driveshaft shop make one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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