Guest grunt0311 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Mike, thanks for the info. The rotors do not rub the brake housing. The offset is no problem then. I assume when the calipers push out it doesn't matter if one goes out a little farther than the other, about 1/4 to 1/2 inch more than the other. I really appreciate the help, one more thing done to get this thing on the road. grunt0311 70 fairlady ugleee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 The stock 240Z brakes are fine for street use, and adequate for limited track use. For track use, you need to bleed the brakes with DOT4 fluid before each event. You also need to adjust the rear shoes before each event too. I have no problems with fade during 20 minute road course sessions. I run Porterfield R4S pads, which are great, but squeak a lot when cold. Of course ITS cars are requied to run stock brakes (not pads), so that tells you something about the stock brakes. I ran the 4x4 calipers for one season, but didn't really notice much of a difference in stopping power. No difference in fade resistance. You need vented rotors to really notice a difference there. I am however upgrading to a Wilwood setup this winter. You can only go as fast as your brakes are good (if that makes any sense). Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokebolt Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 One more bit of information that I need to add to my notes is the width of the rotor cut out in the caliper body. I have an extra set of S12+8's on the bench for solid rotors and the cut out measure 11mm or 7/16". Not seeing your caliper, but you described a 1/4" gap between the rotor face and the caliper body. Sounds like you have the vented rotor version of the S12+8. You may need to shim the pad that has the gap to keep the pistons from squishing out of the bore if that is the case. Or you could get the 1984-85 300ZX front vented rotor and aftermarket spacer and do a full upgrade. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest s30zeg9 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 but will i able to use bck the factory 14x6 rims if i change to 4x4 caliper setup?? im newbie pls help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I've got the 6 spoke ZX wheels and Toy calipers. Works fine on my 70. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbeech Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 So I was thinking of upgrading to the Toyota 4x4 calipers but the fellow who was offering them to me sent me to http://www.jskinnovations.com for a set of spacers. While there I see where Juan is offering a set of Wilwood Ultralites IIs - which with his brackets work out to a tad under 600 bucks (for the complete fronts). So now I'm wondering if the reduced unsprung weight is worthwhile (I'm thinking yes), but I'm also wondering how suitable the Wilwoods are for street use. Any thought folks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Here's my understanding of that issue, I'd love to be corrected if I am wrong. Wilwoods work great and they have a compound that is good on the street. However, when you change brake pads you need to push the pistons back in. They have no dust seal, since they are a "race only" brake. When you push the piston back in, you push dirt across the seal, which can cause it to leak. So the trick is to remove the pistons when you need to change pads, buy new piston seals (very cheap) and clean everything and reinstall the pistons. This of course means you have to bleed the brakes every time you change the pads. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokebolt Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Wheel clearance it's easy to determine: First you need to measure the inset of the wheel caliper area (as I call it). This is the area of the wheel where the caliper exists when the wheel is bolted onto the hub. Using a small steel ruler, lay the ruler over the backside of the wheel on the hub area. Using a second steel ruler measure the distance from the first ruler to the wheel. Now use the Port listing you can see what depth over stock is required. (I've done the last step for you and you can now see the depth that would be required to run the specific caliper): S12W = 20 mm S13WB = 28 mm S12+8 solid rotor = 8 mm S12+8 vented rotor = 20 mm Wheel caliper area depth (the measurement you made on your wheels) minus caliper protrusion (the caliculated number I listed above) equals wheel to caliper clearance. I'm running older than dirt appliance wheels and they will not fit a S12W without modifying the caliper or wheel. S13WB is almost out of the question for my application but the solid rotor version of S12+8 almost fit with out modifying the wheel. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolorin Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Good info, about the front conversion, but what about the big rear disc conversion? here is a small info but I have questions regarding it Big Rear Disk Brake Conversion 240 SX 4 X 4 1/2†lugs: Port C Labeled as such only due to the fact that they use all stock Nissan parts that can be adapted for use on the 1970-78 Z car. Major parts include: 1979-81 Nissan 280 ZX 15/16†master brake cylinder 1989-98 Nissan 240 SX calipers and hangers 1984-85 Nissan 300 ZX rear rotors 4 X 4 1/2†lug pattern 1986-89 Nissan FWD Maxima rear dust shields and hub brackets both bored, cut, and welded for correct offset E-Brake extension are available after market and they can easily be fabricated. Rear axle must be removed to install the hub brackets. for this conversion it does not state do we need fron calipers or rear calipers from the 240SX, and can you clarify regarding the FWD rear dust shield business, and is there another way?? Also how does and E-Brake extenstion looks like?? (any one makes them?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokebolt Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Your right on the post being clear as mud. Port C uses the Rear 240SX calipers, infact all the parts for this conversion are from the rear of each respective donor car. The port is truely custom. You need a stock Front Wheel Drive Maxima donor car (junk yards are filled with them), remove the rear disk and caliper assembly. Toss that junk aside, now you will see the stamped stock hub bracket and dust shield. You will need to bore them out to 89 mm (if I recall) and cut the dog ears off and have them rewelded for the correct offset. Might be easier and cheaper if you don't have equipment to do such work, to buy a set of aftermarket aluminum brackets. But when your a cheap SOB like me you find every way to save a nickel. I'm thnking about making my own socks but that is another story. Personnally I would suggest for the do-it-your-selfer weekend warrior to use the Maxima bracket from Port D or even Port E. Port D has better rear calipers and uses the EXACT same pads as Port C. Port E uses the bulky calipers also used on the 1979-81 280ZX with the smaller pads and large offset rotor. As for the e-brake extension, it is mealy a section of flat stock with two hole drilled in it. Get one stick of 36" X 1†X 5/32" mild steel flat stock at you local hardware store (1/8" may be easier to find), cut two sticks that measure 2" X 1" X 5/32†and drill two holes to accommodate the stock e-brake U-shaped bracket and pin. Add a second pin which is needed for the caliper. Holes may be about 1 1/2" apart or so. Not rocket science, simple fabricate that anyone with a small steel ruler, a hacksaw, a small grinder (bench or hand held) and a drill with bits can make in about an hour (if your slow at fabricating stuff). It is cheap enough so if you mess up the first pair, you still have 34" left to play with. Lots of info to take in. Keep the questions comming, I'll try to clarify. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolorin Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 making your own socks , well my grandma can show how to make those, very tedious but can be done. Who sells those aftermarket brakets and for cheap, not like $150 for those brakets . Any one around here makes those for a resonable price?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokebolt Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I think the last time I seen a set of aftermarket brackets they were in the $150.00 neighborhood. Occasionally I have seen them listed online on auciton sites but that is far away and rare. To make a set of custom brackets they should run about $80.00 to $100.00 if you pay someone else to do the work for you. I've seen pictures of a few garage aftermarket brackets on this site that were made solely of flat stock. Very inventive and looked real nice for a guy playing around with his shiny new welder. Which ever route you go you will need to get the measurements to the guy (or gal) that is doing the work for you. That really is the secret of the bracket. Unfortunity I don't recall off hand what and of the needed measurements are. I'll check my notes and see if I have anything I can pass along. Oh by the way my notes are written on a portable table with small sharpie marks. Not very efficient but maybe some day I'll get them all transposed on to paper!!! Still better than the guy I work with that uses his pant leg!!! Mike Poking around here I came accross this: http://www.hybridz.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22923&highlight=rear+brakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolorin Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Sounds interesting, another upgrade possibility. Now what about this crazy idea, using the fron 240z brakets and modify them to run in the rear and run toyota small 4 piston calipers for the back and save some dough? It might seem an overkill on the rear braking but it could work out fine? Have you heard anything about it? I do understand that at that point you must run the adjustable proportioning valve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokebolt Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I've heard talk but not heard of anyone that has done this type of mod. Yes when you get into this level of brake upgrade you do need to incorporate an aftermarket proportioning valve. ALso if your looking to keep your ebrake functional you'll need to adddress that as well. Seen a cool spot in Drive magazine that has a ebrake assembly on the drive line. That would be ideal for the Z differential in my opinion. I would suggest if your considering doing this type of mod looking into doing a full upgrade with a lighter and *cheaper* aluminum unit. Willwood has good stuff and many aftermarket suppliers (some post on this site) can provide help and parts. You can also get everything you need from sprint car supply places. Their are both pro's and con's to this route. But you can get a weld-on bracket for a Wilwood caliper and modify it to fit your rear hub bolt pattern with just about as much headache as doing a hub bracket from sctatch. The real reason for doing the Nissan stock parts rear disk conversion is cost. Most junk yards usually have a few donor cars (Nissan Maxima's and 280 ZX's, Toyota trucks, etc.) that you can get the hub brackets from relatively cheap and a few other cars you can get other goodies from. As far as performance on stock disk vs. stock drum, I don't see that much difference IF the drums are well maintained. If you compare stock disk to aftermarket disks; well that isn't even a far comparison, larger diameter rotors and monster calipers aren't even in the same ball park. Disks require less effort to maintain and that adds to the appeal. Remember I'm a cheap SOB so if I can get a set of junk yard calipers for $50.00, rotors for $40.00 and brackets, dust shields and misc hardware for another $40.00 I'm styling; vs. $100.00-$150.00 per caliper remanufactured or new aftermarket. Street machine with only a few hard stops in one day with $3500.00 worth of brakes-in my opionion not money well spent. For a weekend worrior racer-worth every penny. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Looking for apt in Alb Ny Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Hello fellow Z ers. I have thought of a new idea. I am sure it has been passed around but what about getting a Toyota caliper,splitting it to fit a 1.25 wide wilwood rotor ? I would machine spacers to make it wider. Man this would be easy. I am trying to find a solution to get some good size cooling brakes under a 15 inch rim. I haven't read this topic so I apologize if I am way off here. Just thought I would pass this around. Oh the caliper would be the earlier non vented Toyota caliper. I would have to get a rotor that will fit with stock caliper height. Would the later Toyota 300zx vented caliper be better @ 12 pounds ( I would think so but we'll see) or aWilwood ? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokebolt Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 For those that have the Toyota caliper this might be a good idea to use a larger diameter vented rotor and the same calipers they have bolted on now. But for the new guy wanting to upgrade his stuff the cost of Wilwood calipers is just about the same as the Toyota calipers, 300zx rotors and spacers. As for the brackets to mount other calipers to large diameter aftermartket rotors it would be nice to see a front 300ZX four piston version adapted. They are aluminium and have the nice NISSAN stamped on the side. Oh rears would be nice too, aluminium, fit vented rotors, twin pistons and again NISSAN on the side. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Looking for apt in Alb Ny Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Alright. I need something for the 15 inch rims. Thats what I am trying to state. Nissan calipers from 300zx are nice but can everyone get a set easily? It seems like you can n e s w with brakes. What did I get myself into ahhhhhh!. lol alright ill be thinking what is most wanted for now. Thanks a buncho Juan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest z1 performance Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 guys - shameless plug here, but if want the bolt on calipers, let us know, as we stock em. Direct bolt on, no fabbing needed whatsoever, and includes caliper, shims, pads - all in one inexpensive package Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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