waynekarnes Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 was running b4 valve job. stock dist. stock coil. have 12 v at + of coil, even ran wire direct off + of batt. was running great b4 valve job ( had a cracked head, and cylinders were full of carbon ). i'm pretty sure that i'm not 180 off on the dist. when hooked back up, cranked over, one poof out the carb, and that was it, engine free wheels like no spark plug in the holes, no spark from the coil to the cap. put a meter to the coil wire, nada, no juice. as i said, the engine was running, with the pertronix igintor II before the valve job. i disconnected the wires from the coil ( red on +, black on - ) pulled the dist. put it in a zip lock bag. engine all back together ( 350 chevy ), reconnect wires ... cranked engine over, got one pop through the carb, and that's it. now, it cranks like no plugs in the holes. and i see no spark. the pertronix website is of no help, it suggests to do all the things i have already done ... the only thing i didn't do was check the gap, of the ring from the module, as i removed cap and all ... never opened it up, figure all that should be the same. even if i was 180 off, i should still have spark ( sure hope i'm not 180 off, already adjusted the hydraulic valves ). i threw the old condensor and points away. i'm tempted to buy new ones as a test, though i'd have to run new wires to them, as they went with the old stuff. HELP !!!! wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
383 240z Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 Try turning the motor over with the cap pulled, Make sure the rotor is turning. It is a long shot but I had a broken roll pin in the dizzy gear once. Make sure you have a GOOD ground between the chassis and motor. If you painted the heads there may not be a good ground path. just a few quick thoughts. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 Keith is cool. Do the spark first and then:.....What I don't understand yet, is why you were into the cam drive area for a valve job? You were re-timing the cam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynekarnes Posted May 18, 2003 Author Share Posted May 18, 2003 rotor is turning, checked the ground, dist. had good ground 9 ohm meter ). coil wire is good ( ohm meter ), put ohm meter across coil Rx1 shows 1.5 ohms. web site shows that as being good/compatible with igintor II. i have 12 volts at the coil, when in run position, 12 volts when cranking. ran directly off the batt to the red of the pertronix ignitor II ( as per trouble shooting guide, still no spark. it ran before i remove it ( gotta pull the dist. to remove the manifold to remove the heads ... though years ago, just to show i could do it ... know it all, pain in the arse. wise guy tells me can't pull the heads without removing the dist. yes, you can ... i pulled both heads without removing the manifold/ dist. ). any way, that's why i pulled the dist. to get the heads off, had nothing to do with the cam ( that comes later ). it had a nasty tapping ... carbon, weak springs, and the shop found one head was cracked. i bought the car with the tapping issue. i added the pertronix, before i tackled the tapping problem, wanted to be sure it worked b4 i tore the engine apart. ( so much for that idea ). the engine would start, and run, b4 the valve job, just reach hand through the window and turn the key, fired right up . clattered like a mad man was playing a xylophone under the hood, with a sledge hammer, but still it ran fine. now, no spark. i pulled the dist as a unit. removed the spark plug wires, disconnected the wiring at the coil, unbolted the clamp, pulled straight up and into a zip lock bag. out back in, cranked it over, POP, through the carb and that was that. i'm wondering if the zip lock bag was the killer ??? static electricity wiped out the electronics ??? i really don't think so, but that's the only thing i can think of now. will call pertronix on monday ... any more advise, please throw it my way ... wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 Wayne; The only way the engine can POP out the carburetor is for it to be out of time. Now you either got the distributor or the cam (or the computer if you got one) set wrong (Maby all two/three). One POP is all it takes and we know the story. One other way.....if a valve was sticking a certain way. Knowing this much for sure we can use certain procedures to quickly find the problem or problems. what I need to know before I try to help here is, are you running a straight forward ignition system or are you on a computer. If the latter then I won't even try to guess the problem, it would be for someone else who knows that part. Come back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynekarnes Posted May 18, 2003 Author Share Posted May 18, 2003 yeap ... it had spark long enough to make one pop. i have no doubt, that the timing is off. i eye balled the rotor to number one, the timing mark was on tdc. i rotated the dist all over the place, didn't make a bit of difference, that's when i checked for spark, and found there wasn't any. odd, there was when i first cranked it over, or there wouldn't have been a pop !!! i hate gremlins ... i could deal with getting the timing correct if i still had spark. could deal with popping back through the carbm would give me a starting point. thing is, no spark, i can't tell if out of time, valves not set right, dist 180 degrees out, of if all i need to do is closer on the timing. once i get some sparks flying, i can check the other stuff. problem is, with the pertronix, i'm looking into a black box. it has a red and a black wire, that disappear into a sealed module. i'm sure the mount for the mod is the ground. i checked that, all seems fine. i have a spare dist. buried in a box somewhere in the garage, i'm tempted to see if i can find it, drop it in and see what happens. it's a F.I. dist from my vette, has an oil line input so the bearings don't seize, i'd have to careful not to run it too long. other thing is, it's been sitting for over 15 years, it'll need a tune up. irritating, it ran b4 i took it apart, put it back together and now it won't start. i have to be over looking something, or i have a flaky module. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 GOODNIGHT........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmyntti Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Just a wild thought here. Check to see if the distributor itself is grounded. As you mentioned the Pentronics grounds through the distributor housing. With the gesket under the distributor maybe your not getting a good ground through the clamp bolt (paint) or shaft (oil). Just a wild guess. If you have ground and still no spark try to determine if the ground side of the coil is switching. If working properly the negative side of the coil should go from +12 to ground while cranking. If this is happening and still no spark try the secondary side most likely the coil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynekarnes Posted May 20, 2003 Author Share Posted May 20, 2003 Don, thanks ... have a good ground at the dist. body, was the 1st thing i checked. musta forgot to mention that. the pertronix ignitor II module is grounded ( zero ohms to the neg post of the battery ). i have 12 volts in to coil, 10 v at cranking. i have 10 volts interrupted at the neg post of the coil. have 28 volts out of the coil lead to the dist cap. 28 volts directly at the coil lead hole of the coil. there is 3 volts out of the spark plug wire connection of the cap ( number 7 ). seems to me should be more like 40K volts ... i'm thinking either toasted the pertronix, though it says it's self protecting. or the coil is bad. odd is, outside the bad head, ran fine. stick arm through open window, crank engine over fired right up. i had already ordered a coil on line, from Retro Rockets, on sunday, explained my reason for buying a coil. today ( monday ) Carl wrote back, wanted me to run a few more tests B4 he sent me a coil i might not need. imagine that !!! could have just sent me the coil ... is that customer service or what ??? oh, and they pay the shipping as well ... beat that thanks for the advise, really appreciate it, i'm standing in the driveway with my hands, palms up raised to the sky, shoulders shrugging ... wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Wayne; The coil output voltage cannot be measured with any voltmeter I'm familiar with, reither can the cap output. As you say 30-40 kV is what comes out and you need a scope or some special apparatus to catch the "Spike" visually. I aint' saying any more because I am not familiar with the particular item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmyntti Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 If the ground side of the coil is switching then it appears that the Pentronics unit is working. If the coil ground is switching then the coil should fire. I think your problem is in the secondarys. There are two psooibilities that I can think of. Either the coil is bad or you are not getting the ground through the secondaries. You could have the Pentronics clocked so that the coil tries to fire when the rotor isn't lined up (unlikely) or maybe the plug gap is to much for the coil to fire accross. My suggestion is to try another coil. Also look at the rotor and see if the metal tab on top is sticking up enough to make contact with the terminal on the cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynekarnes Posted May 23, 2003 Author Share Posted May 23, 2003 no idea what gremlins caused this trouble to begin with ... went out last night, in the cover of darkness, pulled the coil wire off at the cap, laid it on the aluminum intake, my son cranked the engine over. big fat, blue spark from coil wire to the manifold. loud, hear it across the street, crack of the electrical whip as the spark lit up under the hood. plugged back into the cap, no spark out of cap to plug wire. retested coil wire ( several times ), brilliant spark everytime. so now, trouble shooting suggests, faulty cap or rotor. both have less than an hour run time, b4 the valve job. will see if i can get some time this weekend to mess with it. thanks for all the support !!! ordered the flame thrower II coil anyway. if i can't get this set up to work, Lewis made me a good offer of buying his HEI, msd set up, including the plug wires ... 130 bucks. wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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