Wheel adapter stuff

[Guest gprix1]

Just found a company that specializes in wheel spacers and adapters. These guys will make just about anything.

http://www.wheeladapter.com

 

Here's another one. They specialize in GM stuff but will do anything if you give them the spec's.

http://www.skulte.com/adapters.html

 

Cool bolt circle calculator

http://www.skulte.com/boltcircle.html

http://www.skulte.com/adapterfaq.html

[Guest thepenguin99]

wow thats cool. Could get some adapters made to fit 17x9 cobra wheels on my Z =))))))))

[Guest gprix1]

Yes thepenguin99,

I just got an email back from them for the adapters and they are $65 a piece made to your spec's. You could have a 4-lug to 5-lug adapter made for the Cobra wheels and have it made in the exact thickness you need as well.

 

So... Here is what got me going on this whole adapter thing.

 

I was considering a Corvette front suspension to go with my '84 'Vette rear but then, it is just looking like too much, so I starting thinking of a more conservative approach and thought of just keeping the 240Z front suspension (with big brakes and coil-overs) but going to a 5-lug 4.5" pattern using 300Z hubs and then using a 4.5 to 4.75 adapter from http://www.wheeladapter.com in order be able use a GM wheel up front to match the rears. Does this sound feasable?

 

The adapter would then also act as spacer and can be made in various thickness' and even hub-centric to the wheel being used. Apparently, just the 300Z hubs alone widen things about 1" on each side plus the adapter would add another inch minimum as well so... that adds 2" minimum on each side over the stock 4 lug hub but I'm thinking that should not be a problem since 'Vette wheels have deep backspacing and I am using the 280YZ fenders from Reaction Research. I'll have to wait until the fenders are more securely mounted and I have the exact wheels I'll be using in order to know the thickness of the adapter/spacer needed.

[Modern Motorsports Ltd]

"I just got an email back from them for the adapters and they are $65 a piece made to your spec's."

 

FWIW, I routinely do custom wheel adaptors, some done this week. Top quality, hubcentric etc...price depends on thickness but for 1" or less they're $50 each typically for custom units.

 

"I was considering a Corvette front suspension to go with my '84 'Vette rear but then, it is just looking like too much, so I starting thinking of a more conservative approach and thought of just keeping the 240Z front suspension (with big brakes and coil-overs) but going to a 5-lug 4.5" pattern using 300Z hubs and then using a 4.5 to 4.75 adapter from http://www.wheeladapter.com in order be able use a GM wheel up front to match the rears. Does this sound feasable?"

 

Sure, I proposed just such a solution to a potential customer within the last couple weeks doing a curiously similar project. Easily done, although I'd suggest you may have a simpler purchasing experience and perhaps even save some dough with quicker shipping from myself:)

 

"The adapter would then also act as spacer and can be made in various thickness' and even hub-centric to the wheel being used. Apparently, just the 300Z hubs alone widen things about 1" on each side plus the adapter would add another inch minimum"

 

Bolt on adaptors we can do as thin as 3/4" if required. (yes, requires shaving OEM wheel studs typically but a great option for those requiring that thickness).

 

Feel free to drop me a line for the opportunity to discuss your project if you'd like. sales@modern-motorsports.com

[Guest gprix1]

Thanks Ross,

I saw the adapters you make and just assumed (sorry) that you only made those specific ones

 

I have dealt with so many venders that just make what they make and if what you need is different, they don't want to take the time to deal with it (less profit/more hassle than production pieces) or what they charge is prohibitively expensive. That is why I searched around for a place that specializes in custom wheel adapters BUT... since you can provide what I need for a reasonable price I will most definately go with your parts (gotta support our Z vendors). Oh, and I was not the customer you talked to recently with a similiar idea, I just thought of doing it this way yesterday.

 

Ross, if I go with the 300Z hub on a 240Z spindle the brake disk ends up being WAY off. Can you make a hat that bolts to a 300Z spindle that I can bolt a 12" Willwod brake disk to? Something like this (you will have to copy and past the link):

http://www.geocities.com/gprix1/240Z/BrakeHat.jpg

[Modern Motorsports Ltd]

"Thanks Ross,

I saw the adapters you make and just assumed (sorry) that you only made those specific ones"

 

No worries I never assume folks read my complete website but I am truly into making new items. This is a hobby for me and is not keeping the roof over my head. I really like working out new ways to skin the cat and improve upon existing solutions. That's why you don't see my regularly posting as I'm working on R&D projects underway.....280ZX rear VERY adjustable integral coilover setups (NOT Illuminas), and always new brake setups which I'm very passionate about. A LOT calculated before parts are even made for my custom brake setups, piston size/fixed/floating/pad size/rotor size/rotor diam/MC bias (if any)/line pressure/intended cars speeds/scrubbing speed/weight etc.....I just cautioned a hybridz bud that was planning same size caliper front and rear with single MC (ie. no bias in MC) as that will NOT work optimally at all even with an adj. bias valve...(I've been avoiding delving into the 'cheap big brakes' thread to date, I'd like to see more considerations on component selection being discussed for non brake gurus...)but I'm babbling now, sorry.

 

MML 'About Us'

 

I have dealt with so many venders that just make what they make and if what you need is different, they don't want to take the time to deal with it (less profit/more hassle than production pieces) or what they charge is prohibitively expensive. That is why I searched around for a place that specializes in custom wheel adapters BUT... since you can provide what I need for a reasonable price I will most definately go with your parts (gotta support our Z vendors).

 

>>Thanks:)

 

Oh, and I was not the customer you talked to recently with a similiar idea, I just thought of doing it this way yesterday.

 

>> That's two thinking of it at present as well then I'd really like to see some slick BMW designed wheels on a Z car as well.

 

Ross, if I go with the 300Z hub on a 240Z spindle the brake disk ends up being WAY off. Can you make a hat that bolts to a 300Z spindle that I can bolt a 12" Willwod brake disk to? Something like this (you will have to copy and past the link):

http://www.geocities.com/gprix1/240Z/BrakeHat.jpg

http://www.baer.com/Products/BrakeSystems/FrontSystems.aspx

 

first 5 systems they offer for performance packages are all PBR calipers. No knock intended on wilwood as their higher end lines seem to fulfill their intended race function, but various vendors of mine and several others in the custom business I've communicated with do not back wilwood for street or track setups. If racers are rebuilding calipers/replacing seals on stockcar type calipers at 500 miles or so that'd be every couple weeks for myself as I drive my car a lot and truly work towards longevity AND performance in all my own mods on my car as well as MML products. PBR's more than proven with baer and DOT history, as well as on my own car that I'm extremely pleased, I've only bled my brakes for maintenance in some 4 or more years now including tracke events etc and year round daily driving. I've had one customer leave a new wilwood Z front and rear setup in storage after some experiences he passed on to me and he's since chosen my setups. Each his own, just my .02c based on my background and feedback I've received. When respected vendors and tuners (I don't see many wilwood kits for late model imports, I'll see a half dozen others for subaru's etc) aren't fond of the line, I combined it with my own experiences, Z owners feedback of many setus out their, and chose to stay with PBR or other DOT like offerings OR higher grade calipers (ie. I understand SLII's, SLIII"s are far greater than base SL's).

 

I can and will always offer to make items for those knowing what they require or already posessing the combo they'd like married together. But that's not a setup I'll be ordering in for my own future promotion. I've got my own 13x1.1 rotors (all HD, balanced and stress relieved) which are mass balanced to meet Z braking heat sink needs and I even tailor some even more uniquely to different weights to match some truly Xcessive braking needs! Last scale I checked had my 13" HD rotors weighing less than 4x4 vented rotors and still fulfilling my design heat sink criteria:) Lightweight wilwoods at 1.25" thickness have thin outer walls as auxiliary pointed out in a prior thread as the rotor mass present is placed across the great width of 1.25" so same weight in that rotor spec is not as effective as within a 0.8" thick rotor with more mass concentrated within the firepath. And some stouter HD 1.25" thick 12.2's are notably heavier than a Z requires. A few weeks ago I did a custom set of hats to allow the user to have several rotor options in case his car's high speed roadracing (2200lb/500hp) efforts tone down so he can step to a lighter rotor at that time (or to suit higher desired temps/different pad combo). And prior to that some for 6 piston Alcon's with 13.5's on a full race 4th gen camaro, so I do enjoy playing with other products. (that car needs heavy rotors!)

 

Babbling again........time for some rest:) I've been intending to put a technical approach writeup on my web to cover some pros/cons fixed/floating, rotor spec's etc but it all takes time and R&D calls me stronger than webwork.

 

PS I have been working on some tweaks to help reduce my 13" Xtreme setups price to make it available to a broader group but it is the ultimate IMHO for street/track or combined for both performance and longevity, not always an available combo

 

PSS here's a summary PBR put out on their innovative patented 'pad guided' caliper systems

 

PBR's slimline aluminium brake calipers combine lightweight, low

drag design with excellent aesthetics to improve the braking

performance and look of almost any vehicle on the road.

 

The benefits of PBR's slimline calipers are many:

• 
  Weight saving of around 30% (typically understated, a bare PBR is less than 1 lb)
  High torque output
  Uniform contact pressure
  Minimum dynamic caliper drag
  Lighter brakes contribute to a lighter overall vehicle enabling better road holding
  Less wear & tear on high stress parts Shock absorbers / tires
  Aesthetically pleasing appearance
  With opportunities for enhanced styling effects
  Proven thermal performance enhanced by substantial cooling fins

 

Here's my PBR 5lug setup that's in limited circulation at present (yet to fully writeup for webshop)

 

http://www.modern-motorsports.com/miscpics/xtreme/Xtreme5lugZ2.jpg' alt='Xtreme5lugZ2.jpg'>

 

Gprix1....don't let the long story above lead you to avoid asking me more q's...my typical responses are shorter

[peej410]

ross is the man

[DavyZ]

I saw some adapters Ross had for a Lamborgini Diablo----wicked and thick I tell you. Ross, we have to hook up again sometime!! Call me if you are ever in San Francisco

 

Yes, Ross is THE man!!!

 

Davy

[Guest gprix1]

Ross,

How much for the brake setup (5-lug) you have in that picture? Funny, those hats are exactly what I was picturing and (attempting anyways) what I was trying to draw in that diagram for you.

That looks like what I am needing for a brake setup. Thanks for the Willwoods vrs PBRs info. I never thought about OEM type longevity and that is something I would want since this is a street car first and occasional trackday car second.

 

Oh, and while at your website I noticed you have some sweet Koni's availabe. Qustion:

These strut inserts have a large OD and just fit into 280Z strut tubes (will not fit in 240Z strut tubes, 240Z owners must swap in 280Z strut tube assemblies).

Will the 280Z strut tubes needed for these inserts drop right into a 240Z or is there some modifications required to make them work?

Also, if I lower my car, say 1.5" from stock, would I want to add spacers for these inserts (as described on your website - perhaps you intend this to be for people who don't quite section the housing enough) or section the strut housing?

- Rick

[Guest gprix1]

Ross?

[peej410]

ross c of modern motorsports

[Modern Motorsports Ltd]

"Ross,

How much for the brake setup (5-lug) you have in that picture? Funny, those hats are exactly what I was picturing and (attempting anyways) what I was trying to draw in that diagram for you.

That looks like what I am needing for a brake setup. Thanks for the Willwoods vrs PBRs info. I never thought about OEM type longevity and that is something I would want since this is a street car first and occasional trackday car second."

 

You're welcome, nice feature is whether street or track their is NO drawback to the setup (ie. no cons for street use and none for track use....pads can be swapped in 10 minutes including jacking up your car if you're a diehard pad swapper:)

 

Setup will be $1200US, this includes the full front package with DOT (yes, DOT! , same quality as recent DOT rear lines!) stainless custom braided lines, PBR calipers, Xtreme 13" HD, balanced/stress relieved rotors etc, and all other bits except brake pads. The pads are then chosen to suit your needs. Custom anodizing (hats) /powdercoating (calipers, and yes even rotor portions for Xtreme show entries).

 

Oh, and while at your website I noticed you have some sweet Koni's availabe. Qustion:

These strut inserts have a large OD and just fit into 280Z strut tubes (will not fit in 240Z strut tubes, 240Z owners must swap in 280Z strut tube assemblies).

Will the 280Z strut tubes needed for these inserts drop right into a 240Z or is there some modifications required to make them work?

Also, if I lower my car, say 1.5" from stock, would I want to add spacers for these inserts (as described on your website - perhaps you intend this to be for people who don't quite section the housing enough) or section the strut housing?

 

I'm sure a search of the forum would yield the 280Z/240Z rear & front strut tube interchangeability. I've heard 280 control arms are slightly longer from one customer.Those race inserts you're querying on are specific race inserts, even sectioned struts still require the inserts to be properly spaced as you only want to section your strut tube so much or you've got 1" clearance at your rockers (ie. if strut tube is 18" long and insert body is 12" you won't section out 6" of strut tube..., you'd take out 1.5" for example and then space 4.5" beneath your insert for a proper compression fitment under the gland nut)

 

I'm not surfing so regularly so please do email me directly for personal responses:) (this used to be my regular chat/hangout but not much time for the surfing thing lately)

[Boobala]

First understand that I’m not trying to be critical of Ross C’s stuff. I think he is

contributing much the early Z-Car world, and offers great products. I will one day

get the CV adapters, Wheel-spacers (and / or 5-lug conversion) and maybe even

take advantage of the quite reasonably priced, Quaife deal.

 

But, I sense a vacume in between the extreme and buget disc brake setups.

 

$1200.00 is pretty steep for one end of the car only. I’m sure it’s appropriately

priced, but way above my head, especially considering I can get a four wheel disc brake

setup from Arizona Zcar for about $1400.00.

 

On the other end of the spectrum you have your “Z Rear Disk Brake Package†deal plus

the Toyota 4X4 mod for the front. A guy can have a decent four wheel disk setup for

probably under $750.00. But it’s kind of a mix-match / junkyard parts deal.

 

What I would like to see is something in between the extreme and the bare-budget setups.

Something for us folks who want a good street / strip / autocross setup, but without breaking

the bank or having to pick through the local U-Pull-It. Something like the Baer “Serious Streetâ€

system. (10" to 12" vented rotors, quality DOT four piston calipers, etc...)

 

A combination of the Baer “SPORT System 2†(PBR calipers, 12.0x1.10" rotors, ) up front and Baer

Claw “TOURING System 1†(PBR calipers, 12.0x0.81" rotors) in the rear for a 1996 Mustang would

cost around $1750.00. Though this is more than a street Z needs, I would pay that for such a setup

for my Z.

[peej410]

using part of ross C's kit and doing my own hunting around i was able to source calipers and rotors for my 4x4 toyo conversion very inexpensively, i got the whole package done with everything including what i got from ross for 325, with all new parts no junkyard stuff. soon i will be starting the rear setup, ross will be the first one i contact. i really think his setup is ideal if money is tight.... and on top of it all the fit and finish of his parts is superb

[kj280z]

Boobala,

 

Ross's stuff is always well engineered and a lot of thought and time goes into everything he does... I would consider his parts and service some of the best that the Z Car Community has to offer. The junkyard comment was outta line... if you decide to combine junkyard parts with some of the things that Ross has to offer to be economical, that's your choice but the undertone of your comment seems to be that you're saying that his stuff is overpriced etc... You're just plain wrong...

 

Do the comparisons before you "make off the cuff" comments without any basis...

 

And remember... you get what you pay for!

 

I am personnaly running the 300zx fronts and 240sx rears on my car from Ross with GREAT success... An excellent value and a significant upgrade over stock. I have used the setup on the track and am VERY happy with it.

[Boobala]

I was in no way trying to imply the Ross’s stuff was over-priced or low quality. I was

simply stating that…

 

1.The top of the line stuff was good and it is nice to see it the form of a

complete kit, but it is expensive.

 

2.The Budget stuff was good, but incomplete. You must out-source many of the components. And

in the end, you do end up with a high quality, functional system. But, it is a hodge-podge

of a sort. And unlike the kit mentioned above it does not have an “Aesthetically pleasing

appearance.†IMHO.

 

3.That maybe, there is an opportunity to fill the in-between market, where I think a majority

of us fall, with a complete, safe, durable, good performing, aesthetically pleasing, brake

upgrade for a street Z car that is priced similarly to other systems available for the Z

and other cars.

 

Looking back it was unfair to compare Ross’s high-end kit to Arizona Z Car’s Low-end kit, as the

low-end AZC kit does not covert to five–lug, and though I cannot find a price on a PBR caliper,

I am convinced by Ross’s post above, that the PBR is higher quality (e.g. higher price) than the

Wilwood calipers that the AZC kits use. Also, with the low-end AZC kit you must out-source

(i.e. Pick-N-Pull) 280Z front hubs.

 

I guess my frustration at the high cost of putting modern brakes on an old car got the better of

me. My apologies to any who were offended.

[peej410]

i am so glad that the Zcar community has respectful understanding people as members, most other forums would have been full of cursing and ridicule. maturity always wins and ross is still the man

[Guest 327zxer]

Can he take a four lug hub and make a 5-lug adapter.

[Guest 327zxer]

Can he take a four lug hub and make a 5-lug adapter. IF so what backspacing would I need to fit 97 cobra wheels to my 83 ZX

[Modern Motorsports Ltd]

" 1.The top of the line stuff was good and it is nice to see it the form of a

complete kit, but it is expensive."

 

Perhaps in comparision to typical Z stuff, but for it's quality it's typical or even cheap considering the volume/market and product. Price out buying an all new complete front brake setup for most any new decent car and you'll see what quality components run.

 

"2.The Budget stuff was good, but incomplete. You must out-source many of the components. And

in the end, you do end up with a high quality, functional system. But, it is a hodge-podge

of a sort. And unlike the kit mentioned above it does not have an “Aesthetically pleasing

appearance.†IMHO."

 

Outsource many components? Two sets of calipers (one for front, and one for rear) for which all specs are provided, a few minutes by phone to parts yard or counter jockey's. I can supply the front calipers now, just not added into the website. Rears I'd supply as well but costs are prohibitive on full new at present and I've consumed all rebuildable stocks to date and turned them over as professional rebuilds to customers. I made a large effort to make available as many used sets as possible which greatly pleased those that did receive the all inclusive package. I don't see why it's a hodge podge of parts.......if they're balanced to work effectively together then that's what's important is it not? Their is ONLY one OEM setup on a 70-78 so anything else is a unique and non-OEM package.

 

"3.That maybe, there is an opportunity to fill the in-between market, where I think a majority

of us fall, with a complete, safe, durable, good performing, aesthetically pleasing, brake

upgrade for a street Z car that is priced similarly to other systems available for the Z

and other cars."

 

Good to hear your thoughts, perhaps a silent majority now speaking out orperhaps not..... to date this has not been the thoughts of my customers. They know they can have very reliable 4x4 setups with fine function or the pillar of braking function and effectiveness with the Xtreme setup. That caliper availability is great at parts counters most anywhere. Aesthetically is judgemental as we know.......I know some that really like the big blocky 4 piston look of 4x4 or aftermarket etc, I automatically see the lighter 2 piston floaters as more pleasing as I'm intimately aware of some potential inherent advantages, particularly with PBR.

 

Having said that I am always curious on potential new setups and pursueing R&D on potential parts candidates for these. What would you spend and what do you see as more pleasing? Assume an all new 4x4 setup including calipers and all caliper/rotor mounting hardware etc is about $475 IF you buy your calipers local and supply cores, otherwise add another ~$100 for cores. So for you all new/one box that's $575. What would you pay for a Baer Serious Street system as you note? That is a PBR 2 piston floater they use (not a 4 piston as you noted above), it would likely have to be paired with a 2 piece rotor for proper geometry so it won't be cheap as I refuse to use the entry level cheap low quality 2 pc rotors. A smaller OD 2 piece in 0.8" thick is going to be borderline too light for appropriate mass for heavy street use and moreso for hard track use. My 13x1.1's come in at the appropriate weight with immense swept area. Noone here is producing for a thousand+ units/year as Baer knowingly does. As well this is brakes and just because someone sells outer 2 pc. rotors at $50 or less doesn't mean they're suitable for our application. I could sell much cheaper quality & pricewise rotors with both my front and rear current setups but it's not within my conscience or professional judgement. I'm not picking on you in any way, just passing on my own opinion on such matters.

 

"I guess my frustration at the high cost of putting modern brakes on an old car got the better of

me. My apologies to any who were offended."

 

No worries It took me 4 other types of brakes pads, a few rotor purchases, many years of having components not fulfill expectations before I bit the bullet and devised my own Xtreme brake system on my 280ZX. And now it's taken two prior exhaust sytems, over 7 yrs or so and lots of research for me to accept the system I wanted would cost a LOT but I'd get one that would meet my needs in all desires (sound/effective flow/ease of removal). Thankfully not all solutions have to be notably pricey but for ultimate desires the prices do rise for the quality parts and we do (as in Z community) have effective lower cost solutions for various systems which is quite a blessing. Sometimes I get babbling as it's taken a lot of reading/asking q's/spending money on things that didnt' work to learn the lessons I know and I'd prefer to see others expectations met the first time so like to inform as much as is reasonable. Many others here feel the same way and that's what makes this such an enjoyable place to be, I just wish I had more 'web' time in the last year to 'live' here a little more but lifes still progressing and I have my mandatory Z content Last night I was at a Kumho Super Challenge Dinner Gala that was quite enjoyable with engineers in town from Kumho to talk with as well as a display of a couple new treads they have underway that we enjoyed seeing and hearing about.