Z-TARD Posted June 18, 2003 Author Share Posted June 18, 2003 I pulled mine from a 76 XJ12 at the local pick and pull for $220.00. Currently there is a XJS there that has the 11/1 HE (High Efficiency) motor that I would love to pull if I had more time before leaving. They also have an 87 BMW 740 with a V12 as well, which appears to be a little smaller than the Jag engine. The BMW motor would be $360 since it is in the Gucci section of the yard, still a steal in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted June 18, 2003 Author Share Posted June 18, 2003 Just to satisfy my own curiosity, I decided to weigh the engine and transmission to get an idea of how much weight my car is going to gain by doing this. Thanks to Jeff and BlueovalZ for the bathroom scale idea. The cashiers look while I purchased 4 bathroom scales, covered in grease and dirt from the junkyard, was truly priceless. Total weight? 795 pounds including the stand. Not quite as heavy as I was expecting, but definitely more than the SBC/T5 setup. FYI, From all the info I've read, Jag V-12's all came with forged crankshafts, so I believe it should handle quite a bit of Horsepower. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dan0myte Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Yeah, forget the high compression N/A motor. Stick with this one and see what a little boost can do. You could stick with a carb setup as well, some of the fastest import drag racers still use blowthrough carb setups for it's simplicity. Plus, you could easily run it at an engine dyno shop and see what she will do first before doing all the fab work to fit it into the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dan0myte Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Hah, actually, it looks like Jaguar already tried this idea back in the early 70's. It was called the XJS13. http://www.finesportscar.com/XJ13.html They put the motor into an all-aluminum sports car that weighed 2420 pounds. With high compression and fuel injection, the V12 made 485hp and pushed the XJS13 in excess of 185 mph. Looks like your idea is very sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted June 19, 2003 Author Share Posted June 19, 2003 Yeah, I've seen that one before. one of my favorite cars ever actually. If this doesnt work in the Z I'll probably end up building something similar to that using a ZF transaxle out of a Porsche 944. I'm pretty sure it will fit in the Z though. Picked up a couple of small intercoolers today from some Isuzu Implulses. They measure about 8x10 inches each, hopefully enough to support a mid sized turbo under moderate boost. (8 to 10 psi). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted June 19, 2003 Author Share Posted June 19, 2003 What kind of turbo did the VG30ET come with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dan0myte Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 T3 45-trim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 If you build it, it will haul... it's easier then you think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted June 20, 2003 Author Share Posted June 20, 2003 Hey Dot, was wondering when you were going to chime in. If I mounted two carbs in the center of the engine, rather than hanging over the side, do you think there would be enough room to make some custom headers and put a T-3 turbo on either side? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Mike: This reply is going to be long winded so go grab a beer. I think you could fit dual turbos in the engine compartment of a V12Z. Get me the measurements of one and I will let you know for sure. The main problem I foresee is getting the cooled IC air back to the motor . There are no more holes up front for the plumbing. I have to agree with Dan about the carb in a box trick. It would be well worth your while to read up on injection. You can do a lot more with it than you can with carbs. Also like Dan, I too knew very little about FI until I started this project. I would recommend reading “Fuel Injection by Jeff Hartman. Motorbooks international.†This guy put three screws on a straight six jag. He also tells about his failures along the way. You are a gifted welder… I know you could do this with the help of the people on this board. Is this tranny going to hold together? Pete: “Full fiberglass body except roof, with V12/T56/Vette diff 3200 lbs. 5.3L 11:1 compression, 380+ hp 13.78 1/4 mile ET†I know what you’re thinking. I should explain some things. I don’t believe that Fiberglas parts save any weight. The parts weigh just about the same as the metal ones. My thought was, they just make custom work easier and they solve the corrosion problem. The frame for the car was designed with the eventuality of a Chev big block swap. It has connectors from the engine mounts to the rear-end mounts. The door sills are boxed. Everything is heavy duty. Then there is the Vette diff…this thing weighs a ton. I try to tell any one who is contemplating a Vette diff to stay away. The are better/ lighter ways available now. I guess what I’m trying to say is that the car is heavy, not the motor. I weighed the car in July ’98 and it came out to 3140lbs with a 340 / 833 4spd. I weighed it again on Sept ’99 and it came out to 3220lbs with a V12/T56. The trannies weigh the same at 116 lbs. There is also an extra gallon of oil and an extra gallon of coolant the motor uses to consider. The 1/4 mile time is the result of my unique racing style. I raced with one of my teenaged kids strapped to the passenger seat with the tools, spare and cooler in the back. He had that goofy grin on his face for a month. I wasn’t the only one running with his kid that day. This was not a serious racing day. It is the only slip I can produce. I’m sure a stripped car would be quicker. “One of the reasons Jags That Runs exists is because of the insanely high price of Jag V-12 parts and rebuild costs. Once one of these engines go, rebuilding it is a VERY expensive enterprise. Hence people dropping Chevy V8's into V12 Jags.†I don’t replace the parts with store bought ones. It is cheaper to buy a spare motor and use those parts. The reason Jags don’t run is because a 4500 lb car with a 273 rear WILL NOT run. I bought my motors off a guy who put in the JTR kit with a LT1/ 700R4 and he had to finished it off with a differential swap so it would “runâ€. I blew 4 pistons and liners when I ran lean with a dirty fuel filter at high speed and melted some plug tips. It was repaired with the motor in the car. The liners slide out and the new ones slide in. Pistons and liners $100 used and new gaskets $80. I guess it is like anything else…once you get into something you become networked and the prices begin to drop. I hope this dispels some of the misconceptions about the V12 I spent a long time sipping beer and looking at the motor/ tranny setup like you have pictured there Mike. When it was ready to install one of my friends looked at it. He said it looked nice and that it was a shame to put it in the car. Cheers…:::Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted June 23, 2003 Author Share Posted June 23, 2003 Thanks for the reply Glenn. I wish I had a turbo to get measurements from at the time, unfortunately I havent found any good used ones yet. As fas as routing intercooler piping goes, it shouldnt be too much of a problem since I'll be removing the entire radiator support structure and replacing it with an application designed home built unit. I think I could do it without relocating the radiator, but I'd like to have a couple more inches of clearance, just to help the cooling system out a little. The T45 should be up for the abuse I think. My friend has a 2000 Cobra with ATI procharger that dynos 470HP at the rear wheels. He runs in the 11's when using slicks. He hasnt done any mods to the tranny except for installing an aftermarket shifter. The weak point of the T45 from what I've read is the stock shifter and shift forks. Supposedly the forks have a tendancy to bend when shifted hard, because the stock shifter doesnt have stops in it to prevent overtravel. My transmission is a 97, manufactured by Borg Warner. Later ones made after Tremec bought Borg Warner are supposed to have stronger shift forks in them, hopefully a rebuild kit will come with the Tremec shift forks. What do you guys think of TBI for fuel injection? I'd prefer to go this route for FI due to its simplicity. I could probably even switch from carbs to FI without changing intake manifolds with a TBI setup, and I wouldnt have to buy and plumb 12 injectors either. Opinions? Comments? Thanks for the help guys. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Anybody know if you can plumb a turbo unto the mouth of a tbi throttle body without putting it in a box? If so this might be the way to go. It would sure make things simpler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxgts-4 Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 I entertained the idea of Jag V12 & could have bought late 93 6lt with auto Aud $12000 had 6500kms on it. But the info that might interest you was that some Jag specialist in New Zealand made alternative central intake manifolds, sorry lost the info, but something to look into. They were using 6 speed Getrag gearboxes. Have fun. Neil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Room for turbos? On the steering side, I measured from behind the shock tower and there is enough room for a 9 inch diameter tube that will go back to the brake master. Not a lot of room. Between the shock tower and the engine there is enough room for a 5†tube all the way forward. There is enough room for six 1½†pipes, in two clusters, between the engine and the steering. It is the same on the Passenger side with the exception that the 8†diameter space goes back to the fire wall. Lots of room for a turbo. For the rad… I put mine ahead of the rad support make room for the electric fan behind. There is still room for an intercooler up front. Another idea worth considering is moving the engine back 6†to 8 “ by removing the heater and modifying the fire wall. But this involves the controversy of butchering the car. Fuel injection… http://www.kinsler.com/ is a good place for ideas. He is pricy though. His quote in '97 to make butterfly plates like those used in the XJ13 was over $1500. Sounds like you have done your transmission research. Bell housing… sss510 is on this site. His aluminium bell housing is a good idea. They are not hard to build. http://photos.yahoo.com/sss510six I couldn’t resist putting this in. Bugatti V16 quad turbo 987 hp Cheers...:::Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted June 27, 2003 Author Share Posted June 27, 2003 Thanks for all the help guys, should make this conversion a lot less painful than if I tried to go it alone. I'm in Singapore now, enroute to the Persian Gulf within a week or two, so I'm not going to be able to accomplish anything on the car for about the next 6 months or so. I did buy all the books I could find pertaining to fuel injection and turbocharging, so I should be fairly enlightened by the time I get back. Thanks again for the help guys. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxgts-4 Posted June 28, 2003 Share Posted June 28, 2003 Maybe if you you ripped off the hood and guards you could try this with your Jag V12. http://hotrodphotos.co.uk/pages/pages.V12.T.rod/V12JagT7.htm Doesn't look like its too over the top Maybe something a bit more subtle. http://www.keislerauto.com/Jaguar/performance_upgrades/Performance_Jaguar.htm We had XJS's racing here years ago and the howl of V12's in full flight was spine tingling compared to V8's and turbo's. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot Posted June 29, 2003 Share Posted June 29, 2003 Mike: You be careful over there and we’ll talk to you some time after Christmas Cheers …:::Glenn Neil: I love the picture of the Hot rod. The Keisler page is pretty nice. They have some sharp looking stuff. The five speed could have saved me a ton of work. Tonight my spine was tingling until I saw the trail of white smoke from the back. I blew TWO head gaskets. Number one and twelve cylinders let go. I cracked the compression part of the head gasket that sits on the liner. I could see cracking one but not two at the same time and so far apart. The heads were milled and tightened down to spec. The gaskets are Clough& Wood from England. Somehow I suspect not the best quality. So the search is on for new/better ones. I better get back to working on it. Cheers…:::Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody 82 ZXT Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 EFI would really be the way to go for the a turbo car. Not sure which one would be best though. Not many aftermarket computers are setup to run 12 cylinders. It would be sweet to have a V-12 with twin turbos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 i think with the v12 i would use my current car and maybe build a turbo l28 something relativley cheap and make it punchy. as for that beautiful v12 sitting there i would buy a good solid z and buy a ferrari gto conversion first complete it, then slap that v12 with 6 webers perched up all nice and neat. get a good 4 speed tranny and make a custom bellhousing. and have the most realistic gto/z car replica out there but thats just my 2cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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