Guest bastaad525 Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Okay guys I'm sitting here waiting for THE call... from what the mechanic told me yesterday there was just that much more to do for my turbo swap to be complete and running, and that I SHOULD be driving it home by tonite. I've asked a lot of questions up til now and you guys have given me lots of helpful insights and info. I did read the new sticky post at the top of this section also, but I figured I better get whatever more I can before I start haulin ass in it Just a recap of what's in there now: '72 240 '81 ZXT motor/efi all STOCK 1G DSM BOV Grainger DIY Manual boost controller Autometer phantom boost gauge K&N intake Currently NO exhaust, just the downpipe off of the turbo (yes this has me worried but if I get it today no muffler shop on earth is open that I know of, and I gotta drive it home this way, some 30 miles... some people say it will be very loud, some say it's not loud at all w/o the muffler... guess I'll find out soon enough!) ACT clutch, lightened stock flywheel, '82 5 speed and 3.54 diff Now I know someone suggested I drive it for a 'while' before doing anything such as raising the boost... how long of a 'while' should this be? It's gonna be hard to resist I did pick up the Buick GN I/C but it may be some time before I get it in, but I'm going to try to do it asap, even if I have to mickey mouse some intake piping for the time being (any tips here would be much appreciated). I'm also going to get a better fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator installed as soon as $$$ allows. So I want to be 100% sure, what is THE MOST boost I can safely run with no I/C and bone stock EFI? Also, Yo2001 suggests to me NOT to do any prolonged on-boost driving, i.e. no trying to find the Z's new top speed , w/o having the I/C in there first. Anyone can chime in on this? Also, I know I've heard mention that I'll need to let the car idle for a while every time I drive, before shutting it off. Is that the case? How long does it need to idle and does it have to be every time I drive or just when I'm getting on it? Those are the questions I can think of... again any last minute advice or no-no's that you guys can think of please tell me now. This is my first turbo car and I would die if I toast it by doing something that I just didn't know any better. This is my daily driver and my only car so I gotta keep it in good health. Thanks again to everyone here, you guys have been a great source of knowledge for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Well I hope you get the car on time! That would be the first surprise, nothing ever happens as expected. I would be careful with the grainger valve at the start. I gave mine a shot last night, and barely spun together I was getting 3psi. I expect it will be quite sensative to change, though I broke a nipple getting it off, so didn't have time to play with it more. Anyway, don't be too aggressive with the valve adjustment at the start. I'd keep your car running on premium gas, and keep the boost to 7-10psi before you have your IC installed. You're better off keeping the boost level stock, and doing 100 miles or so and making sure there are no loose bolts, etc. I'm at about 225 miles on my car now, and I've probably had 5 or 6 minor "fixes" along the way. Loose belts, IC pipe rubbing pulley, etc. The little things you want to sort out before you really get on the car. Exhaust will be loud, but not painfully. You should make it home without permanent hearing loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody 82 ZXT Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 I agree with the go easy on it for awhile there is no need to get it up to maximum speed tonight. The exhaust wil be load but, no louder than some of the Choppers I've seen lately. Basically just go easy on the car until you learn it and are very familiar with the new style of power. After that up the boost and get the intercooler on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 heheh my hearing isnt so much what I'm worried about... it's more like our friendly neighborhood CHP's hearing!!! Also I'm worried that the exhaust will be dumping out pretty much right under my seat... YOUCH! I am also gonna be VERY shocked if I do end up getting the car today... every major thing I've ever had done to my Z has always taken 3x as long as the quote if not more! When I phoned yesterday though everything was done except for the wiring, which he was just getting started on. He's done this swap before though and assured me the wiring would take two days tops (meaning yesterday and today) and that I should be driving home today. Considering everything else is in, and what little room there is for anything else to go wrong... for once I actually do believe him Also about the exhaust, Tim240z suggested to me that I can buy mandrel bends from a place like Mcmaster-carr... I think this is a great idea I can get two of them and take that to the muffler shop and BAM the problem of mandrel bent exhaust is solved (not counting the downpipe I will get that fixed later...) Does anyone know how much a section of mandrel bent piping costs though? I'll need two, with 90* bends, 3" diameter, for where the exhaust passes the rear of the car. Thank you for the tip about the Grainger valve, I already have it set all the way threaded out, and I'll be sure to turn it just a little at a time until I get an idea how much of a turn makes how much of an adjustment. I have and will always run 91 octane in my Z's no matter what their state of build/tune... best I can get reasonably in CA unfortunately This reminds me though, does anyone here remember when I posted the link to the article regarding using the paint thinner chemical toulene, as an octane booster? The stuff can be bought by the gallon for pretty cheap, like $5, and if I remember correctly, one gallon per 10 gals of gas gives like a full 3 point increase to octane, i.e.: from 91 to 94. A lot of musclecar guys do this for their high compression motors... would there be any danger to using it in a turbo motor for added safety though? Also about the exhaust... I know I've read of at least 3 guys who run their turbo z's with no muffler at all and say it's not too loud, and when I first have the piping installed I'm not going to include on myself. If it does end up too loud for my tastes though what is the current thinking as far as what are the best mufflers for a turbo car, but on a budget? And looks are NOT an issue here I need fuction only so best cheap muffler that wont hurt my performance or as little as possible? And lastly, boost... lets say after my little 'break in' test period and all is well... I start slowly raising the boost, is there a definative way (outside of detonation of course) to know that I'm at my max safe limit? Any kind of hint at all? I know a lot of guys have told me 10psi should be fine with no I/C and stock EFI, but a few guys have said the car will run way lean at the top at this setting... how would you know, though? I'm thinking of aiming right for the midway mark between 9 and 10 psi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Well it definately won't be as load as half the harleys out there, as cody said. Mandrel bends will run you between $20-$30 each, for U-bends. Check out http://www.burnsstainless.com for sizing. One of the best companies I've dealt with for actually getting stuff to you FAST and getting the order right... I added 3/4 of a turn to the granger valve, and I'm hitting 7psi. (and the pop-off valve is venting) So, very sensitive as I suspected. Toluene is a great fuel additive, just as the formula 1 guys from the 80's. (75psi of boost baby!) I believe Scottie-GNZ posted some info on Toluene and Xylene additives a few years ago, including how to mix it. If you can't find the post in the search, I'm pretty sure it was from http://www.turbobuicks.com or someplace like that. Just try not to get any on you... Lucky us, we have 94 octane widely available up here. I'm using a straight through 2.5" muffler on a 2.5" press bent system (I know, I know) and honestly it sounds GREAT, but might be a bit loud for me. Its a tough trade off, it sounds mean... but it might be annoying on any trip longer than an hour. We'll see about that, I guess I can always just crank the stereo and drown it out. As far as finding out how much is too much, its pretty much just trial and error without the right equipment. Just make sure you can hear the engine well when you start pushing it. Also, make sure you are going uphill when you test, so you know that the engine is well under load, and you don't get any surprises later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 *siiiiiiiigh* well as was deep down expected, the car didn't end up being done today. Some problem with the fan and the crank pulley not lining up right, and being in the way of each other. I'd have thought this guy would have known this one before hand... so tommorow he's gonna put a spacer on the fan to stick it out more... makes me worry wont that put it too close to the radiator?? Sooooooo possibly tommorow... but mind you they still havent even gotten to the point where they've fired up the engine at all yet, so there's still that chance for more delays if the car decides not to start. The wiring is done, everything else is done, now just gotta cross my fingers and hope it's all done RIGHT. Anyways, thanx guys, as always, for the info that just leaves two of the original questions, about letting the car idle before shutting it off, if and when I need to do that, and about prolonged on-boost running, if this is indeed dangerous w/o the I/C at 9-10psi boost? And just to double check, are you guys sure there are no other little things I absolutely need to be aware of with this engine? Common mistakes? Common problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 i wouldnt turn up the boost for a while, and get used to driving a turbo car first. when i first got car started and drove around, i didnt realize that you had to really make sure the inlet to turbo and tb from j pipe (applies to ic piping as well) had to be on there GOOD, and didnt realize i was driving around with massive vacum leaks, i got all distressed and shook up that i wasnt making any kind of power but my turbo was whining and screaming . i ran the fuel pump directly off the battery to a switch and was wondering why the power would die out after 4500rpm. i spent three hours wondering why my car wouldnt start once, then i read that the ecu wont kick on the car if it has less than 9v cranking power, in that three hours i checked every single connection in the harness, swapped batteries, and did the dance of joy!!! didnt realize the advance was digital controlled, and ended up troubleshooting all my sensors when all i had to do was set diz to 24btdc(83zxt, all others 20btdc) and be done with it, this took me out of the game for a week! i spent a whole day trying to figure out the tps settings, when it was not the tps fault in the first place!!!!! if your car flutters or misses on WOT, disconnect and reconnect the ecu pins before you touch anything else (this is pretty common with 20 year old connectors !!!! once you get the boost going, carry a screwdriver and a 5/16 ratchet driver with you for the couplers, youll thank me in the end. got sideways out of a parking lot once, my head temp sensor fell off somewhow and i drove the car for three blocks with so much black smoke i couldnt see behind me, and called a tow truck thinking i blew the motor, and when he came i saw the plug loose, plugged it back in, and drove away (i happy he was cool and was just as happy as i was that i could get the car moving again) with a good flowing exhaust expect the boost minimum to be around 7psi, which should be fine if you run good gas, or on bad gas if you dont get on the boost. i wouldnt up the boost for a while if this is your first turbo car. at 10psi intercooled all the stock fuel system components should be fine untouched, but different cars react differently to turning up the boost. ecu ignition curve is very conservative and 10psi intercooled is pretty easy to do reliably, in my case, im not sure because once again, different cars like different things, and dont think different things. 10psi is fun, but it does get old, this boost thing is a freakin disease. ive been turning up the boost 1 psi a week and tuning around it for a while, highest ive seen yet is 15psi and its been fine, but not as fast as increasing boost from 7-12psi, i know it has to be that im out of the efficiency range of the stock turbo, and i leave it at 12psi for daily driving. 12psi is starting to feel really slow to me too...... turbo timers-i dont like em. im one of those guys who cant stand to leave his car with the engine running, when i had my turbo timer hooked up i would stand there until my car shut off anyway, defeating the purpose of the timer. if i have been driving very hard i leave the car on for a minute or two, if i am going somewhere the last block or two before i am about to park the car, i keep the revs down to 2k or so, and coast with foot on clutch as much as possible, and thats usually enough to shut the car down. i can tell by your posts maybe a turbo timer isnt for you either?? anyways good luck and i hope you have fun with your turbo car, im having a complete ball with my car as it is right now, the mpg and the performance from a small investment has paid itself off and then some, wait until you do your first turbo burnout with atmosphere venting blow off valve, its heaven!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 GAAAAAAAAAAAAH well now it's tuesday and it's up in the air as to when the car will actually be DONE... well everything went in but as predicted there were wiring problems on trying to get the car fired... everytime we connected the pos battery terminal a fusible link burnt out... so now there is just no telling how long it will be.... It is very hard for me to get by w/o my car and I'm about out of friends to ask for a ride! I'm still holding onto hope that this is just a minor delay and may be done today or tommorow, but somewhere in the back of my head is screaming not for another two weeks yet.... I KNEW when the guy said one week was gonna be more like three. I uh... encouraged him to ask around on here to try to figure out the problem but somehow I dont' think he's gonna do it... well its back to waiting... tick tock tick tock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 Just to tell you on the fan hitting the crank pulley, I had the same issue and you can remove the front crank pulley. 6 bolts and its out of the way, unless you need to use it for AC or something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 The mechanic brought this up with me, he said however on the '81 engine, the front pulley is bolted thru the back of the pully assembly, facing the engine, and to get it off he'd have to take the whole pulley off, which I guess he was not willing to do, so instead he put a spacer under the fan itself to raise it out a little bit, 1/4". Again, I worry that this MAY cause problems with the fan being too close to the radiator but I guess I have to see it... hey if it chops my radiator open it's on him to supply another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 grrrrrrrrrr well I didn't get my car today either!!! why is it you can always depend on a mechanic to never finish when they say they will??? the lower radiator hose 'exploded' according to him. The car IS running, efi is all wired up and good... he's having problems with the autometer boost gauge... he installed it where the clock goes and wired it up and for some reason the light isn't working right, it turns on when the dash/head lights are off, and turns off when you turn the dash/head lights on. He says he spent the day looking for the replacement radiator hose... I told him only one place had it (I just blew one a short while ago, though he said the replacement I just bought would not fit... ???) which is the valencia nissan dealership (about 30 miles away), but he refused to go there citing it was too far... instead spending hours scouring local dealerships. Grrrrrrrr so I told him... it's gotta be done tommorow... no more excuses. Sorry for the rant guys but man this is rediculous... just ONCE I'd like for something to be done on time... man I WISH I could do this kinda stuff myself but my manager doesn't allow working on the car in our parking garage, and I can't exactly do an engine swap on the street.... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I swear I'm gonna start factoring in hassle time and deducting from the cost of his labor or something.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Welcome to the industrial world. If someone quotes you 3 weeks, be happy if you have it in 6. I've been down this road many times, and I can't quite figure out why people don't be more realistic with their estimates, unless its just to "hook" the customer to get the work started, and by then they think they can't go anywhere else.... Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody 82 ZXT Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Sorry to hear about the delays I know how you feel. The one Z mechanic that used to be near enough to me to actually use would always take atleast double or possibly triple the amount of time he said it would take. That and a lack of money to pay someone else for labor is what got me really into doing things myself. Turned out I wasn't bad at it and I could afford many more parts if I didn't have to pay labor charges. I'm sure you would do the same if you had a place to do it. Anyway, keep the faith and get your right foot ready be fully extended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kenafein240 Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 I couldn't find a hose for my car when I got a radiator from eBay. It wasn't exactly a stock replacement. I just got a flex hose. Wasting all that time looking for a hose really is inexcusable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Yeah I used to do all the work on my car myself... I used to rent a room in my friends house and we had hour own garage and driveway so I could do anything there. Never did an engine or tranny swap but I've changed just about every other major part on my Z there. I dont like paying the massive amounts of cash to get this stuff done now but at least I found a guy who charges about 1/2 or 1/3 what a full shop would charge, as he works out of HIS garage. I haven't called him yet today but I made a very big point of telling him yesterday that it's GOTTA be done today. I was thinking about the universal flex hose also. I know the factory hoses seem to be getting hard to find for 1st and 2nd gen z's (moreso for the lower hose than the upper it seems!). I've heard that the flex hoses are bad, though no one has told me specifically what is so bad about them. Are they just short lived or what? I fully expect to find one of them on my car when I pick it up today, unless the guy goes to the dealership as I suggested. Well... cross your fingers for me guys.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kenafein240 Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 I don't know if they're bad or not. They seem to be pretty sturdy, they definantly wont colapse! They have pretty stiff wire running through them. Maybe they leak after awhile, anybody? I don't know, but it solved my immediate needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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