Guest storm280z Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 is anyone on the board using nos on the sb for street use. if so how big of a shot. an are you using forged internals. im asking b/c i was thinking of having a shop built me a v8 from scratch. i want to know should i go ahead an spend to extra cash to get a built block. or could i handle a 150 shot of nos. im pretty sure i know the anwser is ya, but i bet i would be right back a the shop getting my second motor built shortly after so just trying to get some insight so i can do i right the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denny411 Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 If you really want durability and reliability from your engine, I recommend building the engine to consistently handle whatever your maximum hp will be. I would at the very least run forged pistons, and would recommend good aftermarket rods and a forged crank as extra insurance. It`s better to be overbuilt than underbuilt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nic-Rebel450CA Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 For "street use"? If anyone is, I am not sure they will admit it. A stock SBC can handle a 150 shot pretty easily depending on how often it is used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest storm280z Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 ya i was thinking the same thing as far as over build rather then under build. i am new to the whole american mucsale thing. im have 82 turbo in there now but going for more power( i think those words are goin to be on my head stone ) but where should i stat looking for forged pistons an rod an crank? how much will they run me(ballpark)? im just trying to do my homework so i dont go in there feeling dumb or should i just go with whatever the shop uses to build their motors. the shop said they could build me a 350 oil pan to head with cast aluminum internals for 3200.00 is that a good price or is that just low b/c the motor id being built with crap you would think that im writting a book but i think you guys for all the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denny411 Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Unless you arer getting some good aftermarket heads and matching intake included for that price, I think it`s a little high. A 350 long block with stock cast iron heads and cast flat top pistons can be had for 900.00 to 1500.00 depending on where and how much you shop around. Obviously the price will go up depending on what upgrades you decide to make, such as... Forged pistons,roller rockers,roller cam/lifters,aftermaket heads,timing set,oil pan size/style/volume,and what type of machine work you opt for,ie.(balancing,decking,boring,milling,polishing,port matching,ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest storm280z Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 you said that i could get a 350 for 900-1500 is that for a new one. b/c the shop that i was planning on going to made new. with all new parts. i think the only thing that is used is the block. now 3500 might still be high but i wouldnt know. so i you say that i could get a 350 for 900-1500. i need to be shopping around more. b/c it sounds like im being had. thanks again i fill like with every post i send im saving money with you guys help 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKDGabe Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Storm, you need to list exactly what they're doing for that price. I paid $900 for mine with just an RV cam. Not quite the cheapest but I'm very happy with the quality. Where in Tx are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 I have a friend that sprayed a 200 shot on a cast crank/piston 350. He ate 20 to 30 lbs of N20 a week for over a year before the motor started to smoke. He raced at the track every friday night and on the street sunday night. The short block was just about an autoZone special but he used a 292 comp cam, 64 cc dart heads, headers, and a good intake. I'm not saying this is what you should do but it is an example of how much a stock SBC can handle. I'm sure you could build a mild streetable engine (9.5:1 cr) with a strong short block and spray a 400 to 500 hp shot of N20. I spray between 125 and 275 shot on a 2 bolt main 350 block with good rod bolts, forged pistons and crank. The engine also has about 11:1 cr. The most important thing is to have a high volume fuel system, good fuel, and timing retard. A mallory comp70 fuel pump and a one gallon fuel cell mounted by the radiator and full of 116 octane is a nice way to add fuel enrichment to a N20 system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee Smith Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Not the right board, but you seem to know nitrous. I have a 80 280ZX AT that I am wanting to try nitrous on. The engine has 148K, but 180# on all cyl. Right now I have it idling at 500 rpm. It does not die when the AT shifted in & running right at all rpm. I know the above is not the right idle rpm, but nobody here at Fort Dodge, Iowa knows what a Zcar is & I am having fun showing what a Zcar will do. Showing what a Zcar will do, is my main reason for wanting nitrous. The 80 ZX AT is not really very quick, but it is impressive, if pushed, to people that do not know what a Zcar is. I had a 78 5-spd that was running right & a 83 T AT. I want more. I was thinking a 75-100 dry shot with the CSV for extra fuel. A modified dry shot. ?? From what I read, other car FI management handles a dry shot. The 280 Zcars FIM is not as good for a dry nitrous shot. ?? Will the AT handle the shift 2ed to 3ed, with a 100 shot? Will the engine handle a 100 shot? When should nitrous be added? So I think that I am looking for a wet kit & info. Thoughts on what I am trying to do & a used wet kit. A list of the parts that should be included, in a wet kit, would be appreciated too. I bought a How To Do Nitrous on eBay this week. Lee Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumo Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 3500 might still be high but i wouldnt know 8)Just go to these guys if you're going to spend $3500, they're in Dallas too. http://www.dallasexportsales.com/377LB.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 You right, this is not the right site to discuss a N20 shot on a L28. However here are a few comments on your post. If you use the Datsun Cold Start Injector for the N20 fuel enrichment then you first need to know the flow rate of that injector. Pull it out and measure the gas flow over 30 seconds with the car running. That injector uses 12V activation. Then you can match the amount of N2O to that fuel flow. So, it all depends on the cold start injector flow rate on how much N20 you can add. But, who knows how well that injector distributes the fuel to all 6 cylinders? A mass air efi can handle a small dry shot of N20 (100hp) but not a datsun air flow meter. I have no idea if a datsun auto trans can handle N20. But i'm sure you can try it and find out. However, i'm sure the engine can handle a 100 shot of N20. But you will need to retard the timing about 5 degrees and add the right amount of fuel enrichment to the N20. Which means the fuel pump will need to pump a good amount of fuel. You should only add N20 above 3000 rpm and at full throttle. Buying a How to N20 book is a great first step! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest storm280z Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 pyro sorry for any misunderstanding.but i was asking if anyone is useing no2 on a sbc. on if so what fuel/an internals are they using.an any other thing to that intoconsideration when using no2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 storm280Z, Sorry, I was just replying to lee smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 You could get a 383 with forged pistons for under 3500.00, shop around, do not get in a hurry. Local shops that sell crate or custom motors are Stroker motor.com, and go auto center.com both are local in Dallas and obviously can be found on the web as well. I have delt with both and had no problems. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest storm280z Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 ya i looked at the 383 long block at stroker motor an it was like 3400.is that a go price for everthing it has.http://www.strokermotor.com/377LB.htm or should i continue to look around for better price with the best package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Geek Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Been the 383/N20 route and got tired of spitin out 1/2 shafts. IMO the ley to makin stupid power and ET while keeping the rearend in these cars is to kill some of the low RPM torque or at least move it up pin the RPM range. If you have the patients I would recommend the following recipe and building it yourself or having the short block built by a reputable machine shop and bolting the heads intake, etc on yourself. No better time to learn engine building because if you are gonna be playin with the N20 sooner of later you are goona make a mistake. It happens to us all. 350-SBC Forged TRW engine kit from Summit. ARP rods bolts A cast crank is fine but try and find one that is no more than .010 under. Comp-Cams 292 Hyd. flat tappit. Vortech heads 1.6 roller tips Performer RPM Air-Gap Cheater kit jetted at no more than 175 due to the intake restrictions (Dual plane). Push this issue and sooner or later you are gonna pull your plugs only to find out that the tips are gone. And this is on the low end of the spectrum. An HEI with some type of hot coilpack such as an Accel is fine. Mechanical pump (Holley, Edelbrock, ETC. to feed the motor.) Holley Blue to feed the N20. Note - Now if you want to keep the N20 to a 150-shot of less that a good mechanical pump will work fine but I would reccomend a Hobbs switch connected into the fuel line set at roughly 5-lbs and running to the ignition. This will kill the spark to the motor should your FP drop below 5-lbs. In short it is CHEAP insurance. Holley 750-DP (These can be found cheap used and can be easily rebuilt.) TCI Super Street Fighter convertor. Sump welded int o the stock tank. Hooker long tube 240 swap headers. 2.5 off of the collector into at least a single 3-in into the rear. If you really want to get jiggy with it then install a cutout right after the "Y". On a 150-shot with a 4.11 gear and on a 26x8.5 slick you WILL go 10.90's to 11.20's w/this combo. With a 3.54 geared rear you will drop a few 10'ths but it will be more highway freindly. I just took out a motor out of my 240-Z that had been a 10.20's on a 225-shot of N20. Another member here (Dave Hlavety) has it in his 260-Z now and is running 11.60's on the motor with only a 750-DP. The one before that had been 9.52@152 on a Progressive 300-shot but was a much more radical motor. It came out as it was tearing the ffront sub-frame rails away from the body. If I can be of any help please let me know as I am ALWAYS running across used parts such as intakes, carbs, dist, heads; etc. I would be willing to bet that you could put this entire combo together for less of equal to the quote of $3200.00 that you got from the shop. It will just take a little patents, work and scrounging. Cheers !!! Jim C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest storm280z Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 i would it be cheaper an safeer to but the parts an let a shop put everything together for me, b/c i have never built a motor before. or to get a per made short block from somewere? http://www.dallasexportsales.com/383390SB.htm or is this still to much to pay b/c it still seems a little high. if you said i could biuild the whole motor for less than 3200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Geek Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Storm, IMO I think that you would come out better buying the stuff yourself and letting a machine shop put it together for you. I am not knocking the crate motors at all but thinking more along the lines of getting the most bang for yoru buck. You can usually get a good machine shop to put a long block together for roughly $200-250.00 in assemly labor. Some machinists will do it as a side job but you would need to be willing to work with them regarding time. Not to say that they would drag it out but it may take them an extra evening or two to clean. oil, mic and assemble everything. I usually charge an assembly fee of $250.00 if folks already have their parts for a combo such as this. If I were closer I would gladly come by and help you get this done as you could have the motor assembled in a weekend. If you need and help looking for parts or what-not feel free to call me at one of the following numbers: 334-272-2377 Home 334-206-3480 Office 334-850-0258 Cell Cheers !!! Jim C. P.S. - I have an HP-830 for sale but that would be a little much on the combo you are looking at. However if you know anyone who might be iterested please pass along my number. I may list it on e-bay soon. Here are a couple of links to some decent buys. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2443520755&category=33550 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2443210515&category=33550 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2442699432&category=33550 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2443543242&category=36474 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2443302264&category=36474 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2443616610&category=36474 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2443586164&category=33555 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2443179176&category=33555 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2443402044&category=33623 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2443867220&category=33623 (X-Rods are a great cheap rod.) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2443548736&category=33623 (If you can find a standard bore block.) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2443603333&category=33623 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2443428698&category=33614 (Good camshft for a street motor. Summit has them for roughly the same price once you figure in shipping.) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2444148269&category=33614 (Would check it out.) Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Driver Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 When I had my motor built I was told that with vortec heads it is not a good idea to run that much N2O because the base of the head wasn't thick enough? He said about 125-shot would be max, any more and I would blow a head gasket. Is this accurate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest storm280z Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 in doing to swap what do you do as far as ecu do you use a donor v8 or datsun ecu? an do you ahve to get a new driveshaft. or any kind of mods to the 280 driveshaft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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