Guest soulfly454 Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 ok im 15 years old and own a 1971 240z with a chevy 283 right now i have an edelbrock performer intake and a holley 650 carb i have been working all summer to but parts for my datsun and im about to spend almsot 600 on a new weiand hi ram tunnel ram with dual 450 holleys its called the summit combo and im wondering if it will be too much for my stoc heads and 65 fulie corvette cam which i belive to be 447"/.447 any help would be greatly appreciated and take into consideration that im buying it for the looks too as i also plan on bolting on a mr.gasket hilborn(420 mega blower) style air scoop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Call Summit and ask them what you need to successfully run their ram combo on your cammed 283 SBC like fabrication, engine modifications, tuning. Something like this may require more than an intial $600.00 out lay. Looks may not be all that important when it is difficult to keep the engine running consistently.This not the set-up for a daily driver. IMHO and 2 cents put the money into something that would give you daily depedability tires ,wheels, cooling, suspension/brakes, rust prevention. Later on you can put a 6 foot Ram manifold and and gas pumps on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Night_rider_383 Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 soulfly454 It's not the carbs you really need to worry about. With a tunnel ram many many things have to be done. I'm building a 500-550 hp 327 with a tunnel ram that will be 98% strip only use, and just see maybe 50 miles a mo. street time. The tunnel rams can be drove more than that on the street but unless you know how to tune dual carbs, build an engine to work in high rpm band, build drivetrains to work in high rpm's and drive in higher rpms then youll end up with a dog off the line and under 3000 rpm. Desk top dyno 2000 shows my combo peaking at 7500 rpm. For me thats a good thing seein how mine will be used for drag racing, leaving the beams at 3,600 rpm, and crossing the traps at 7,800 rpm, shifting from 1 to 2 at 7550 rpm, and from 2 to 3 at 6650 rpm. As you see HIGH RPM ONLY Your 283 already dont have great low rpm torque and a tunnel ram will kill what you do have, plus bein a tunnel ram is for high rpm 3500-8000 rpm + you'll need to match the rest of your engine to that. That means heads atleast as good as the AFR's $1275 190 heads, you need alot more cam, then cause you went with a bigger cam you'll need more compression to keep from bleeding all of your off, plus youll need at the VERY least a 3,000 stall torque converter and 4.10 rear gears. Myself i think 3500-4500 stall and 4.56 gears are much better for tunnel rams. Also a H.E.I dist. wont clear the tunnel ram, you'll need to cut the hood, which will leave 3/4 of the tunnel ram and carbs stickin out of a z cars hood. When I say this i want you to know i'm not coming down on you cause of your age, cause im only 20, but at 15 i dont think you really understand what a tunnel ram can and cant do nor do i think you wcould live with one on the streets (3 speed auto, dual quads maybe 6-8 mpg) Tunnel rams are very cool lookin intakes, and they can make great power. The power they make starts atleast 2,000 rpm over what your rpm will reach on the streets going to school, work, etc. Your best hp, tq, E/T, etc, will be with an edelbrock performer rpm intake, 600 cfm carb. Save your money for mods thats really gonna give you power at the rpm you drive, such as better heads, better cam, gears, converter, chassis parts, etc. Start reading and learning more and more, then a few years down the road when you have the money and need for high rpm use, then build you a tunnel ram engine. I'm sure many other guys on here will tell you the same as I am. Best of luck, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest soulfly454 Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 ok well first off the tunnel ram im buying isnt a strip only intake its a street tunnel ram it has a 1500 to 7500 range which isnt all that high on either end and second im palnning on putting in a 2500 stall and my compresson is around 10.5 - 11/1 so its already high enough i was jsut wondering if u uys though this thing would be to much with the cam i have i didnt really need a lecture on tunnel rams this sisnt a holly strip dominator with dual 750s and if u look at one of the recent hot rods they did a test of the whole kit and it actually made 40 ftlbs more then a 650 and dual plane intake on a 350 and thats under 3600 rpms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gprix1 Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 soulfly454, Is this one you're getting? http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=3113&page=1 Pretty cool looking. Don't know how it will work for you though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest soulfly454 Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 yeah thats the exact one out of summit and yeah i reallylike the way it looks and icant wait to see how it looks with the scoop on top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Night_rider_383 Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 soulfly454.... Bud i aint tryin to give you a lecture, or tell you what you can/cant do with your own setup. I'm just tryin to help you and give you a few tips along the way. That tunnel ram is the Weiand hi-ram 100% as the one im fixing to use. I was gonna buy the combo like you, but after i read up on the 450 holleys i back out of it cause they have no sec. jets or pump, there 600 cfm combo has vac. sec. still with no rear jets or pump. So i'm buyin the same ram intake along with 2 holley man. sec 600 cfm double pumpers for mine, but again mine is race only. The hotrod test yes i seen that, i have it sitting right next to me. Theres alot of things i see very diff in that combo and your combo. The larger stroke engines can tell with more intake cause of the fact they make more low end torque. So when you build a 355, 377, 383, 400 sbc you really build to up the top end power, but small stroke engines such as chevy's 283, 302, 327 they have great top end, but kinda soft on low rpm torque so for street/strip action you build with low rpm torque in mind. Plus hotrod had much much better flowin heads. The afr's are some of the best flowin heads on the market, along with the rest of the parts they used there test engine to start with didnt have but 1 stock part on it and that was the block its self. I don't really know where you got that LOW rpm band from cause heres what the maker of that ram says From holley's website Part #: 1984 Satin Finish Features 2800-8000 RPM power band 2 x 4 carburetor setup Square flange carburetor mounting Special D-shaped port runner design Large plenum chamber GM HEI will not clear Carburetor Recommendations 600 - 850 CFM Holley HP Specifications Height - frt. 9.06", rr. 9.50". Shipping weight is 25 lbs. Summit racing has a NOTE that reads "Not recommened for everyday street use due to lack of low rpm torque" Again bud i'm not tryin to lecture you by no means. I just see alot of new comers do stuf like that, car feels slower than there folks econo box cars. They hate the way it runs, sells it way to cheap, calls v-8's slow junk, then buys a ricer lol. Tunnel rams are cool intakes, they look great and that have that WOW!!!!! factor to them but there place is not on a mild low rpm street/strip engine If you care to see... heres the specs for my tunnel ram engine/car 1962 327 small jounal bored .030'' over total of 331.6 c.i.d trw forged flat top pistons polished forged I bean rods with arp bolt forged crank, with counter weights polished AFR alum 190 cc heads ported and polished heads milled to 58 cc 1.6 ratio roller rocker arms crane power max soild flat tappet cam 252*@.050'', valve lift .591'' Weiand tunnel ram intake dual holley 600 cfm 4 bbl. carbs gear drive timing drive 11.38:1 compression ratio .045'' quench height car 1978 trans am. 2,995 lbs with out me, 3,250 lbs with me,(major weight removal done). full 12 point cage, weld on sub frame connectors, soild alum body bushings, s oild motor mounts, poly trans mount, soild leaf spring bushings, 2 coils cut off front springs, 90/10 ratio front drag shocks, 50/50 ratio rear drag shocks, ssm lift/traction bars, 4.56 gear posi 8.5'' 10 bolt rear th-400 trans, 10'' 3800 stall converter, 28'' x 12.50'' m/t sportsman pro tires...... NOS brand cheater n20 system for dual holleys, 150-250 hp. I'll use the lowest jetting. 150 hp shot, Off the bottle this engine will have around 525 hp at 7500 rpm on the bottle over 700 hp, also the n20 will bring up my torque down low thats when my gearing and stall speed is mild for this combo, If I wasnt gonna run N20 i would need a 4500 rpm stall, 4.88 gears, etc, etc... Sorry for the LONG post. Just give your setup some thought bud, hope you the best luck and lowest e/t's, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 It can probably be jetted down to work on the primaries, but I'd wager it'll blubber like a bad boy when the secondaries open up. Thats 900 cfm on a 283. Most health 350's run a 750 carb max. A pair of 390 holleys would still IMHO be to much. Also consider this, do you intend to park it anywhere while your not around the car? More than one rodder has come out to find they're lovely scoop and carbs missing. I kid you not. Also visability will be a bitch. I have a cowl hood thats only 4" high and in the small window of a Z you can't see the right fender anymore at all. I'm sure your gonna do what you want and thats cool your car, but remember than when your trying to jet it right to make it work. They're pretty to look at on a T bucket or prostock car but IMHO impractical as hell on the street. Good luck with it if you go that route, I'd bet you won't keep it long. Just an opinion and you know what those are like. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Soul Fly no one is lecturing you. What you have posted here is about 100 years of hard won knowledge (based on experience, mistakes and observation).If you want it, Go for it. No need remorsing about not getting that ram 75 years later in the convalescent home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 Well, sometimes we get advice, even though we don't ask for it. That's not a bad thing either. Anyway, That lift (.447") indicates its the old 151 327/350 cam. I had that cam in a 10.5:1 327 with 462 1.95/1.50 heads when I was in high school on a 70 Camaro. It has alot of overlap, killing the low end. On a 283, it'd be worse. IMO, there's no way that engine will do anything worthwhil until over 3000 rpm, if not more. That's with a dual plane too! Add a tunnel ram and things get worse. Yes, the cam is not a good choice. Those old hi-po Chevy grinds had really slow ramps, which means even though it's like 222@.050" (IIRC) duration, the seat timing is more like 340 degrees (Chevy had weird ways of measuring seat timing, and it's probably closer to 285@.006" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pvtkary Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 dude everyone has an oppioion. I'm not trying to dog ya. just lend a helping hand. If you go to the holly home page they will give you the formula for necessary carb size. My guess is that they know what they are doing. A tunnel ram looks nice, and might get you laid, but if you are looking for performance at a low cost look elesewhere with that setup. May I recommend a little nitrous. I know the inhearent fears, but nitrous doesnt blow motors, idiots with nitrous blow motors. Think about it. How often do you really want/need the max performance out of a daily driver. If you dont try to add a huge amount of horsepower, and use in infrequently this can be one hell of a weapon in the street wars. Not to mention making you a verry popular party guest. Nitrous has been used in piston fighter aircraft for a long time, and during a dogfight is not a good time to turn a motor into a boat ancor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 Nitrous was used on most WWII fighters. They also lockwired the throttles to prevent it's use except in emergencies. Breaking the lockwire allowed the pilot to use full "War Emergency Power" (WEP). Most engines were only rated for something like 5 or 10 minutes of WEP output before they had to be torn down and overhauled. If the plane landed and the lockwire was broken, this told the ground crews that the engine was toast. But this is an extreme example. WWII fighter engines were built to go balls out and rarely lived more than a few months anyway. BTW, there are some pretty good posts in the HybridZ archives about nitrous and parties. Apparantly automotive nitrous is different than medical grade nitrous and may be unsafe due to the higher levels of impurities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pvtkary Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 I dont know what BTW means, but I have had a little experience with nitrous. "there is a time and a place for everything. that place is colege." The MAN has spikes/denatured/poisned industrial grade nitrous with sulpher. If you want to remove this high content of sulpher to "REDUCE SULPHER DIOXIDE EMITIONS" just run it through activated charcol. Like a couple of water filters. DO NOT MESS WITH THIS STUFF AND DRIVE. Good luck keeping the planet green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 BTW....means "By The Way". oh yea, BTW, you can run a Tunnel Ram on the street...you just wont be able to do it as efficiently as the conventional intake/carb set up. Think about it; we're talking about pressure differentials which effect airflow velocity. These pressure differentials start w/atmospheric conditions, to carb cfm/venturi, to intake ports, to cyl.head port/chambers, to the exhaust. All these ports must have a ratio that compliments its previous port. As Pete mentioned-if your cam is an old muscle car grind then its gonna have excessive overlap-which kills low idle power to begin with; this is where understanding my pet peave (sp?), Dynamic Compression Ratio's come in to play. Secondly-your tunnel ram is much larger that a typical single plane or high rise dual plane-thus air velocity is again compromised placing a double whammy on Dynamic Compression Ratio putting that much more of a strain on low rpm power (air velocity). The old muscle car grinds were slower because when they were available, we as a nation had 116 Leaded (Ah, good ole Ethyl). The ramps Pete mentioned, which are slow ramps, aided the leaded fuels of yester-year. That fuel ignited slower but once ignited it burned quickly. This is why those old cams opened the valve slower, held the valve open less, and closed the valve rather quickly. Now days we have fuel that ignites quicker and burns slower; thus the quicker ramps which open quicker, stay open longer-then close even quicker than the older cams. Also, the mfg's of those muscle car cams would purposely use excessive duration to bleed off their high Static Compression Ratio's. The maximum mucle car engines of those days would have as high as a 12.5:1 Static Compression Ratio but once the excessive duration cam bled off its predetermined cylinder pressure, the actual Dynamic Comp.Ratio was more acceptable for the street, for the gas of that time. The purpose for a tunnel ram is to increase your high rpm's, which is why they are the perfect compliment to a larger displacement engine that already has a lot of low end power. Put this tunnel ram on a smaller displacement engine, with an excessive duration-narrow LSA cam and then run this engine on the street; you are flurting w/disaster. My final point is this; you can under build your engine and that engine will still rev to 5500rpms. You can build your engine perfectly, right on target, and your engine will rev to 5500rpms. You can also over build your engine and it will still reve to 5500rpms. So if all three engine builds will rev to 5500rpms which is best; to under build, build correctly, or over build? The correct answer is to build correctly for your intended purpose (The Street) which allows for your engine to come on the cam at the appropriate rpm range. The appropriate rpm range will be the rpm your car finds itself in at least 60% of the time. If it is to be a daily driver-that means you will be on the street...thus your desired torque/power band should be down low. If it is a daily driver-I would heed Lone's advice. A Tunnel Ram and its carbs are quite easy to steal. Two guys who know what they are doing can rip you off in less than 5 minutes! If you decide on that set up, you will definately need after market heads (on today's pump gas), a more moder camshaft with faster ramps, steep steep steep diff.gears; and an overdrive trans. As someone else mentioned...at least 8mpg-if you can keep your foot out of it Yea Right. No lectures, no speeches-just free advice and opinions; that is what I like about this cite-free opinions with a lot of hidden experience freely offered...take it or leave it. Just my .02's worth. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest empracing Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 dude your in the states your looking to hang a motor part 2 foot out the hood and you not talking blower? if i lived there ide had a kuhl or bds on there already who cares if it works ide just look at it all day when it blew up aussies are diprived man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest soulfly454 Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 well thanks for the advice and sorry for not responding i actually wrecked my car last week after i finnaly got my carb tuned and found out i was running two fouled out spark plugs turns out my car has a tendency to spin its tires shifting into second when its running right which was fun for a day intill i hit the cops mai lbox (and of course it had to be the cop) and back on subject if i have too change stuff to make the setup work i can change my cam but for now unless i can find a good deal heads are not my budget i just wanted to know what would be the most street friendly set up i could possibly run with it and i have been thinking of something else but to me at least theres nothin better that look it gives the car so its still a toss up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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