waynekarnes Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 i am running scarab kit, installed in 77. currently has thermostatic fan and 4 core radiator. have 4 inches between pulley and pump. about an inch between the thermostatic lockup device and the radiator. i was looking at some e fans at the wreckers today. looks like some of em have the motors offset, the mercury sable, for example. any has anyone with a scarab style kit, installed an electric fan ? thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 I have a scarab designed car and run the Taurus two speed electric fan. It is very tight but can be done. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynekarnes Posted May 23, 2004 Author Share Posted May 23, 2004 does the taurus fan motor sit over near the head of the engine, or is it centered at the water pump ? i was thinking that the cmf of the sable would be the same as the taurus, and the motor is offset. i am guessing that, the fan in the center of the radiator is more effeicent, than the offset. do you remember what year taurus that you got the fan from ? the fans i was looking at, had the power wiring coming in from the side as well as head in ( from the engine ), into the fan motor. you used the shroud and all,as it unbolts from the taurus, yes ? how did you mount it to the radiator ? that fan and fan clutch being so close to the radiator, make me more than a little nervous. thanks for the reply, wayne ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacer Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 It's not as efficient, but you could always user a pusher type fan and install it in front of the radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynekarnes Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 been considering it. as yet, no over heating issues, prev owner said no issues, but he also drove it for about 6 months with a cracked head too. i finally got around to cleaning out the cargo area, so i could get the hatch open, found 2 one gallon containers of coolant, under the carpet, in the spare tire well. he obviously knew something wasn't right ... i've no idea if i have a short or long water pump. i am considering running a high volume water pump, but .. part of me says, the water has to stay in the radiator long enough to get cool, if it moves too quickly though the radiator, won't cool. water wetter, will probably help. don't want to go much lower than a 165 thermostat, want the engine at operating temp. thinking about adding a 280z hood, for the thermal vents. i have the MSA aero kit to install. i have heard that kit, puts more air into the radiator, if true, i am sure that will help a bunch. sure would be nice if i could use the LS1 fan, found 2 of em at the pick and pull over the weekend. on my set up, i'd have to pull the water pump off, and still probably not have enough room for that. thanks for your opinions, keep em coming, wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 The Taurus fan sits a little off set from the center of the water pump and lower as well. Atleast on my car it does. It sitting a little off center helps with the clearance alot. I set mine up with a simple 35 amp rated toggle with a off center and low up and high low set up. I am running a 30 amp inline fuse with 10 gauge wires. I just mounted mine flat up against the Griffith aluminum radiator and hooked a bracket up on either side to pull her in nice and tight. I also used a automotive sealer to close off any gaps left from the fan pressed up against the radiator. I am running a sbc 383/700r4 combo in Texas and it runs at 180-190 degrees temp in low speed and any hint of heat over 190 and throw the switch and kick her into high gear. She will then run under 170 even on Hot Texas days. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynekarnes Posted May 25, 2004 Author Share Posted May 25, 2004 Mike, thanks, that info helps quite a bit ... what amp alternator are you running ? off line some one suggested to me, that i would want to run a 100 amp alt. if i planned on using an electric fan. do you remember what year taurus you got the fan from. when i was at the wreckers, seemed to be 3 styles. two where the wiring came head in to the motor, one with 3 wires, one with 2 wires. the third one, that plugged in from the side. thanks again, wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Wayne, You will want the 3 wire type and I believe they ran on the 3.8 only and from 1988 until 1993? I always find them at the pick n pulls. I picked two up for friends saturday at the pick n pull's 1/2 price sale. I got 2 for 31.00 dollars. Not bad for 45 minutes of work. They are on the Taurus and Sable models. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaleMX Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Well I bought a Ford Taurus fan for my LS1 conversion and ended up with 2 of them so 1 is up for grabs. The fan is brand new and is an import. The packaging they shipped it in was a little too small and as you can see in TaurusFan3 the top of the shroud is bent down and touches the fan blade. It pulls away easily and the fan turn fine, but would have to be bolted in place, or heated and bent up to keep it in position. I thought I would offer it here for a good deal before I put it up on EBay. If your interested just PM me. http://www.circuitflex.com/TaurusFan1.jpg http://www.circuitflex.com/TaurusFan2.jpg http://www.circuitflex.com/TaurusFan3.jpg Fan was sold today. 5/26/04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynekarnes Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 missed it while thinking about it ... will have to ebay or hit the wreckers ... i like the idea of the sable fan, it appears to be offset more than the taurus ... but, may just be my perspective. the fans i was checking out were, the 3.8 version. didn't know about the three wires, but figured, if has 2 speeds, gotta have 3 wires ... ground and two hot leads. when you hook em to power, one slow ... one fast ... do you remove power from the slow lead when applying power to the fast lead, or leave power on ? thanks, wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynekarnes Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 bought the 2 speed taurus fan ... won't clear the water pump. looks like i need another half inch of clearance. running a harrison four core radiator. no idea what it came out of. you guys running a short water pump ?? if so, what braket do you use to for the alternator, so that the belt lines up ? thanks, wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 In my car a taurus fan would not fit, but an olds fan from an 85 car fit because it has a funky design. I am not running a V8 but thought you guys may be interested in this. The olds fan is 2spd. It came from a 3.8l olds car which may make a difference on its cfm?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynekarnes Posted June 14, 2004 Author Share Posted June 14, 2004 did a search and saw that you had used an olds fan. i saw one at the wreckers, has the 3 tubular 'leg" mounts. i almost snagged it, figured if it could cool the olds engine, it should work for the V8 in my z. i also saw it on a cadillac, with the 4.3 V8. i wonder what the cfm might be, there is no shroud, and the nose of the z, isn't real good at letting air in. you may want to build a shroud to go with that olds fan. the tauras fan works so well, because it has the shroud, funneling it through the radiator, as well as being able to move lots of air. i just bought a 14 inch 2680 cfm, zirgo, off e bay. also got the thermostatic adjustable switch. as far as placement, looks like i can off-set it enough to clear the fan motor. instructions are included to make it a pusher, if i can't get it to fit as a puller. measured, and it should fit, in front of the radiator, just incase. neighbor suggested, i run 2 10 inch fans. i'm not too keen on that idea, figured 2 fans, would draw too many amps. and yes, i'm looking into fabricating a shroud. i have read that, using a spook, or the msa air dam brings more air into the radiator, as well as getting rid of the lift ( 240z's are lighter at 55 mph, than sitting still ). air gets under em and lifts em off the road, need down force aerodynamic aids to push em back down onto the pavement. anyway, supposedly the spook or airdam, brings more air through the radiator, engine runs cooler. consider that as well as a shroud. thanks for the suggestion about the olds fan. wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJTR Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 JTR has an aluminum radiator kit for the V8 Z that weighs less, and cools better than the 4-row radiator currently in your car. The radiator is thinner, so it will provide room for the Taurus fan. Also, the brackets that come with the kit allow mounting the Taurus fan assembly to the brackets, rather than to the radiator core. Check out the following link for the V8 Z cooling chapter (you will have to scroll down the screen after getting on the page): http://www.jagsthatrun.com/index.html The radiator and brackets can be seen on these links: http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Parts_DAT-Radiator-Mount.html http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Parts_DATZ_Radiator.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 I spend a lot of time on this board. I have read several times about people with 4 row radiators who have cooling problems. I know a Griffin radiator is not an inexpensive option, but guys who run them with a Taurus fan don't have cooling problems. Don't know what it is about the 4 row cores, but they don't cool as well as even the 3 rows. And like someone said, the aluminum units are much lighter. Also I would think a 100 amp alternator would be a necessity with the Taurus fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJTR Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 The reason the 4-row radiators don't seem to work as well as they should is because the thick core blocks air-flow through the radiator. Less airflow-- less cooling. Also, once air has gone past the first row, the air is hot, and it does not cool the rear rows. On trucks with heavy-duty engine-driven fans, the 4-row radiators can cool well because the engine driven fan can pull enormous amounts of air through the core. Another thing to know about 4-row radiators used in trucks is that the fin density is normally about 12 fins/inch. This allows leaves, bugs and other debris to go through the radiator when used in offroad conditions. On cars, which have a fin density of about 16-18 fins/inch, bugs and leaves can quickly block the air-flow through the core, resulting in overheating, when used in off-road conditions. A 100 amp alternator would not be necessary for the Ford Taurus fan, because in most cases, it will cool fine on low speed, which only draws about 15 amps. Another thing to consider about alternators is how much amperage it will put out at idle -- In a Z car with the JTR aluminum radiator, once the car is moving above 25 mph, the ram air should be sufficient that the electric cooling fan can be turned off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaleMX Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Mike, I am assuming that you represent JTR. Will the mentioned 140 dollar aluminum radiator equiped with a Taurus 2 speed fan cool an LS1? Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynekarnes Posted June 15, 2004 Author Share Posted June 15, 2004 Mike, and everyone, appreciate the responses ... back in 73-76, had a 4 core radiator in my chevelle ( 327, apprx 365 hp ). ran 12.49 1/4 mi. was my daily driver. same fan set up as the z, stock chevy, metal fan with a clutch. no shroud. never got over 190 degrees. of course, heat wasn't trapped in the engine compartment. current radiator has about 500 miles on it. i have only put about maybe 20 miles on the car, since i've had it. car has the fiat syndrome. fix one thing something else breaks. i bought the z dead in the water, been sitting 10 years. V8 was installed back around 1977. passenger side head had cracked, valve job, both heads, flushed the block and the radiator. 50/50 mix of antifreeze. i drove it about 12 miles, pulled into the driveway, outside temps in low 80's. no real temp gauge, just the z dash gauge. was , leaning towards 3/4. engine just felt hotter than i would like it. intitially, when i parked, no coolant in the overflow tank. about 5 minutes later, coolant expanded, into the tank, no surge, no pulsating. so, i know it wasn't boiling, once cooled down, coolant went back into the radiator. i want to eliminate the fan. with the clutch, it sits about an inch or less from the radiator, i can't use a shroud, because it would bump the hood. with the scarab kit ( may be a home made set up, using some scarab parts ), the fan sticks up about an inch or so above the radiator. combination of the two, frighten me. plus, i want to make sure that the engine has adequate cooling. i need to get a T for the sender and put a temp gauge under the hood. someone suggested that $35 digital temp sensor from craftsman. point it at the block, radiator, ect. get an idea of what's going on. easier than adding the T and a guage. i've already spent the money on the zirgo, see if i can make that work. budget doesn't allow for replacing the radiator. but, if i can't drive it with current radiator and zirgo fan, i guess i will be forced to afford a new radiator. was gonna resell the taurus fan, but ... from everyone's advise, i'm gonna wait and see if the zirgo 14 inch 2680 cfm fan and the current radiator set up works. if not, as i said, i'll end up buying a radiator, hoses, ect. to go with my 2 speed taurus fan. what might that radiator sell for ? so ... concensus is that i don't need the 100 amp alt. ???? thanks again, wayne ... figuring this z stuff out, is a bit different than vettes, chevelles, and 55 chevys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJTR Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 In response to DaleMX The JTR radiator will cool an LS1 when used with the Taurus fan. The core of the JTR radiator is basically the same design as the LS1 radiator core, but it is not as wide. The JTR radiator core is 20.75 wide, and the LS1 radiator core is about 26.5" wide. The dimensions of the JTR radiator are shown on the following link: http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Parts_DATZ_Radiator.html The only problem with the LS1 radiator is that it is too wide to fit in the Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaleMX Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Thank MikeJTR. That's what I wanted to know. Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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