Cjarloz Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Ok guys i need to know what im up against here. What do you think would win in all sorts of racing. Autox, roadracing, drag, etc. 1990 240sx with sr20 swap 1970 240z l28et Both running relatively same hp and equipment. stock turbos. Let your imagination run wild --Carlos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 IMO, if hp is very close then: The Z should have a big weight advantage, a few hundred pounds I would think, also it would be torquier for a given hp because of the extra displacement (though not as much as you might think given the Z's low compression), so should accelerate faster. All other things being equal (tires, suspension and such) the Z would have a definate advantage in a straight line, accelerating out of a turn, etc. However, I dont know enough about the 240sx chassis to say which would have the advantage in autox or roadracing... the Z's chassis is old, and not the most solid chassis, you know? Bend and flex... you can tune it out, of course, with lots of suspension add ons and upgrades, but then, I would think it would take a lot of upgrades to bring the Z's chassis up to the level of the more 20 years more modern SX's chassis, and then it wouldn't be 'all things being equal' anymore. With enough mods and that weight advantage the Z could outhandle the SX though. So I'd bet my money on the Z for drag racing, and the SX for auto X and road racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjarloz Posted May 31, 2004 Author Share Posted May 31, 2004 Thx Bastaad. ill keep crunching numbers and working the ole frankenstein lab because the sr240sx population in orlando is replicating like rabbits and i will have some serious competition soon. ill keep posted on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brianglawson Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 be careful if you plan on running an sr sx, i have one, and most people that do the swap usually have fmic, exhaust, downpipe hot pipe and bov right off the bat. usually folks dont mess with the smic and other stock components, better radiator is also common, most sr's you see are probably putting 230-245rwhp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjarloz Posted May 31, 2004 Author Share Posted May 31, 2004 thx brian good to know since im going out to the sx hang out this wed night. now i know definetly not to mess with these guys jsut yet till i got my turbo in and dialed in right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 IMO' date=' if hp is very close then: The Z should have a big weight advantage, a few hundred pounds I would think, also it would be torquier for a given hp because of the extra displacement (though not as much as you might think given the Z's low compression), so should accelerate faster. All other things being equal (tires, suspension and such) the Z would have a definate advantage in a straight line, accelerating out of a turn, etc. However, I dont know enough about the 240sx chassis to say which would have the advantage in autox or roadracing... the Z's chassis is old, and not the most solid chassis, you know? Bend and flex... you can tune it out, of course, with lots of suspension add ons and upgrades, but then, I would think it would take a lot of upgrades to bring the Z's chassis up to the level of the more 20 years more modern SX's chassis, and then it wouldn't be 'all things being equal' anymore. With enough mods and that weight advantage the Z could outhandle the SX though. So I'd bet my money on the Z for drag racing, and the SX for auto X and road racing.[/quote'] You are way off on the weight... My buddy chris has a SR S13 and it wieights in at 2500. He has a front mount and with stock T25 turbo he walks me when I get to 3rd. . He was running 14psi of boost to my 10psi of boost. granted I am not intercooled.Remember the SR motor revs to 7500 and with cams can rev to around 9500. As for handleing.. Most go with a Tein set up wich works very well for thoes cars.. It really suprized me. He ran a 13.0 in the 1/4 with a 1.9 60ft. So.. dont underestimate them Cjarloz..If built right.. they are tough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 You are way off on the weight... My buddy chris has a SR S13 and it wieights in at 2500. Um... okay, you say he weighs 2500... and I know the '70 240's are around 2200 or so, not sure how much the turbo swap ads, but my '72, which started life weighing more, stock vs. stock, heavier than a '70, now weighs 2320lbs with the turbo swap. And to quote myself "The Z should have a big weight advantage, a few hundred pounds I would think" You call that way off? 2200-2300 lbs vs 2500lbs... that constitutes a 'few hundred' to me. You are also comparing apples to oranges in your example of your buddies SR 'walking on you', doesn't sound like your cars are exactly at the same level... whereas Cjarloz specifically said, they were running relatively same hp, equipment, etc. So, here's what I know: Power to weight ratio is one of the biggest factors in any straight line acceleration... given the turbo Z and SX are very close in hp, and knowing the cars weights, the Z has a definately power-to-weight advantage, and barring some huge differences in gearing, should pull faster. You did bring up one good point though, the SR can rev way higher than you'd rev a turbo L6. So while the L6 would be making more torque, and would accelerate faster at a given point, you'd also have to shift sooner while the SR just keeps on pulling away. The SR's going to have more power on top vs. the L6's lower end pull. So that would bring them closer, but I still think the Z would pull away IF they were both making close to the same peak hp, regardless of where that hp was in the rev band. 200-300lbs is a LOT of weight... that's more than a couple car lengths advantage in a 1/4 mile race, given equal hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 What I was comparing was my real life situations. I have a 77 280Z that comes in at 2615. True the 240Z's weight a good bit less. True that will make a difference in accell. But it will also come down to driver. a 2-300 lbs difference can easily be made up by driver. All we can really do is sit back and watch. I know what I have seen personally and it is a strong motor. Not saying one bit that a SR with the relative same HP as a Z will be faster or slow cause I have never seen the 2 at the same HP levels. I am sure interested in finding out though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 0.100 seconds in the 1/4 mile for every 100 lbs is the general rule. I'm not a car weight expert but I would think a 240sx weighs at least as much as a 280Z or 280ZX. 2300 lb cars are hard to make due to safety regs and comfort options. The 240 sx feels solid and well insolated and comes with power locks, windows, back seats, ect. Furthermore, in stock form, 240sx's have the same hp and performance as a 280Z so I think they would weigh the same. With that said, the 240Z should have a weight advantage of 300 to 400 lbs. But this is just a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjarloz Posted June 1, 2004 Author Share Posted June 1, 2004 well yes mine is a 70 240z and im not stock i have no a/c and havent really added much weight other than seats r200 and turbo stuff. but i think with all the a/c stuff out i should break about even or close to plus im jsut generally light lol i weight around 150lbs the most. only thing is my car is not lsd yet and that will hurt me. but once i get the turbo in ill get it weighed and dynoed and do some track time. ill keep yall posted as well as the 240sx competition. Carlos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Early 240sx's are fairly light as well, one aspect of what makes them very popular I think. I can fully believe his friends 2500lb claim... even though they are newer they are not as heavy as you might think, though I dont know how they got them to be so light. True difference in driver skill can make up for that weight difference as well... but again, I'm only assuming all other things being relatively equal. BTW, I've seen a few instances where 100lbs dropped made more than .1 difference in the quarter (like when I pulled my A/C equipment off my ZX and gained .2, or when I switched the same drivetrain from my 240, dropping about 600 lbs, and dropping about a full second in the 1/4). Just my experiences... can't say 100% that it wasn't me getting better at it, you know? Cjarloz... I guess best thing anyone can guess is either way it will be a pretty close race Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjarloz Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 darn at least its a nissan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 L motor has the low and mid range all over a sr, I usually crush them from launch to top of third, I will win if I fool them hard enough with the launch and 2nd, if they hit third soft that is @ss is mine. If they are persistent they will pull me in third gear, revealing that my hp isnt there yet but my torque game is on. With stock sr's they inch on me in a third gear battle, my buddy with the t51r vanishes from me in third gear when he finally hits full boost. My revenge will come with the T62 ( p trim t04e) and the Srs I havent put the stank on already are soon to be dominated. Sr cars are pretty potent and I dont care about the weight, their car still dont look as good as mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 the sr240sx population in orlando is replicating like rabbits and i will have some serious competition soon. ill keep posted on it. Yes they are but I would not be too concerned as I have yet to see a decent running one expect for that hideous lime green one. I believe if you target 250 at the wheels in your 240Z you have nothing to worry about. As for the weight of the 240SX, that was an option for me and the lightest model I found in my research was 2695 for the early notchback model. 2500 does not sound right for a 240SX. Most of the late model SXs with SRs are right at 3000lbs with driver and with 240+hp, you have them covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 the sr240sx population in orlando is replicating like rabbits and i will have some serious competition soon. ill keep posted on it. Yes they are but I would not be too concerned as I have yet to see a decent running one expect for that hideous lime green one. I believe if you target 250 at the wheels in your 240Z you have nothing to worry about. As for the weight of the 240SX' date=' that was an option for me and the lightest model I found in my research was 2695 for the early notchback model. 2500 does not sound right for a 240SX. Most of the late model SXs with SRs are right at 3000lbs with driver and with 240+hp, you have them covered.[/quote'] Scottie. you saw this 2500 lb 240SX at reynolds.(2650 with driver.. chris is a little dude..lol) he drove up with me from mobile. It was the red one running low 13's ( traction limited). I saw him get on the scales at reynolds. He does not have AC. But other then that it is a stock body. I am not saying that the SR motor will dominate over the L series but I agree if you have a 240Z with around 250rear wheel hp you will beat a rather stock SR. but if you run into one with cams and upgraded header with a larger turbo ect. ect. they can really be a serious runner. I think so far the most HP on a stock bottom ended SR is 540 some odd rear wheel hp. that is with nice cams and alot of other bolt on mods but the bottem end is stock. Not to mention the 9500 redline. But really. I guess it all comes down to.. the ole saying from Speeder.. " speed costs.... how fast do you want to spend".. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjarloz Posted June 3, 2004 Author Share Posted June 3, 2004 well went to the spot at ucf and wow is all i can see all makes and models. lots of z guys and tons of 240sx many of them sr's. mostly S13 a few s14. Some z's. And OMG OMG OMG yes this deserves 3 . A one and only true Japanese spec Imported right hand drive Pulsar GtiR black and i have pics of it ill post later. All the z guys and some other folk loved my car ^^. Super fun if your in the orlando area. Carlos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSamo Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 The difference between the z and the sx is that the sx is pretty much for drifting... the s13 is one of the most dominant cars built when it comes to drifting.. Although I don't autox or road race, i would think that you drift? If so the sx would probably woop on the z. With that in mind the z would PROBABLY don't quote me on this, beat the sx in the straight line.. due to the fact that the sx wasn't built for dragging, it was built for going around corners sideways.. anyway... just offering my .02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 well went to the spot at ucf and wow is all i can see all makes and models. lots of z guys and tons of 240sx many of them sr's. mostly S13 a few s14. Some z's. And OMG OMG OMG yes this deserves 3 . A one and only true Japanese spec Imported right hand drive Pulsar GtiR black and i have pics of it ill post later. All the z guys and some other folk loved my car ^^. Super fun if your in the orlando area. Carlos Thats awsome man. so you have pics of the whole meet? I would like to see them. sounds like it was a great time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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