Phyxius Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 I have about finished my MSnS installation on my 81 turbo motor, but I am having some problems with the ignition aspect. My first question relates to the info on the MSnS-extra page that states that I can use the oem trigger position in a next-cylinder setup. How do I do this? Is it simply a matter of setting the trigger angle to 120-the oem trigger point? Second, I haven't been able to get the coil to fire when cranking. It will fire sometimes when I turn the key off. This doesnt make much sense to me. I have it set up exactly as it is shown in moby's installation guide with the 4 pin HEI module. XG1 is jumpered to XG2 and D8 is shorted out. The middle LED seems to indicate that the firing signal is being sent, but the FIDLE light on the stim isnt flashing and the coil isn't firing. when I unplug the stimulator (same thing as turning the key off), the FIDLE light will flash momentarily indicating a recieved trigger command... Also, I am unclear on how to jumper the FIDLE relay block on the relay board. Which terminal is the IDL and which is FIDLE? I think I have it setup correctly, but i'm not sure. The one closest to the DB37 terminal should be connected to the one closest to the connector blocks? Any help would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Ok, here is a horrible picture from early on of my relay board. Don't laugh. Notice how the green wire is installed in place of the fast idle relay. That green wire connects IDL to FIDLE so you get the ignition signal all the way to the terminal block. Then you need to add the pullup resistor on the FIDLE wire that goes to your HEI module. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Also, notice in the schematic that my pullup on the FIDLE wire is to 5 volts. Some people may pull up to 12volts and maybe this causes some of the heating of HEI modules? not sure, but I don't have heating problems with mine so far. It is on a big heatsink though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyxius Posted January 10, 2005 Author Share Posted January 10, 2005 ok, I've got that part right. what about the triggering on power down and such? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Sure, Q5 is the transistor that pulls the idl wire to ground in order to fire the HEI module. If you have a DMM you can put it in diode testing mode and check Q5 with the positive lead on the base and the negative lead on the emmitter. On the MS schematic pin 2 is base and pin 1 is emmitter. You should measure something like .6 to .7 volts if the transistor is good. I have also noticed a spark at power down sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 You are using the 81CAS for triggering the MS-n-S? How did you do your "total advance" setup initially? Did you crank the 81 CAS to the top of the bracket, or move the trigger wheel one position? Mine sparks on initial startup, and if the engine stalls, it will spark again on ign off. It can cause a nice backfire if you have an open exhaust valve and mix in the cylinder... WOOF! Are you using MS-n-S, or MS-n-S Extra (since I see you mention Extra in your first post)? Since you get a spark on startup, the HEI is probably grounded correctly to function.... This may sound INsane, but while I was troubleshooting mine, I plugged in an 82/83 CAS assembly and spun it with my fingers to test the sparking circuit. Don't laugh, it worked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyxius Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 Yes, I'm using the 81 cas. I haven't done either of the total advance changes. I was just trying to get it set up to run at about 5* of advance. I was gonna do the other mods after i got it running. I'm using the MSnS-extra code. I don't necessarily get a spark on start up, only when I turn the key off or otherwise power down the unit. I would try the 82-83 cas if i had one. I tested the Q5 transistor and it seems to work as it is supposed to. It seems like it is something internal to the MS though because the stimulator doesnt show the FIDLE led flashing, but the middle LED on the MS board flashes like it is firing. I'm using the 020i9 version. Could this be the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Oh, Extra Code. Beyond me at this point! Still running MS-n-S on mine. Remember the trigger setting will limit your total advance. Mine was firing at only about 30 degrees total when the CAS bracket was cranked all the way up. It will severely limit your advance until you get a proper total advance in there. But you gotta get fire first. That spark says a lot when you shut it down. Means the output circuit is working IMO. I would make SURE all your connections were correct, and if using the relay board that the wires are all securely connected in them also. I lost spark one day, bue to breakage on the stock Nissan wire at the CAS connection for power at the relay box! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I used the 021p and 021u versions of the extra code and they worked like regular MSnS. I didn't test with 020i9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyxius Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 i've upgraded to 21u and still no luck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I guess you have to start checking all the simple stuff. Does FIDLE at the terminal block pulse during cranking? If yes then HEI module/coil is wired wrong or bad. If no then trace back. Is HEI module grounded good. It has to be to fire the coil. My HEI grounds through one of the bolts that holds it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyxius Posted January 14, 2005 Author Share Posted January 14, 2005 I think the FIDLE and ignition circuit are working fine...my current thought is that i'm not getting a good CAS signal. The BW wire in the CAS harness has power, and the ground grounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyxius Posted February 6, 2005 Author Share Posted February 6, 2005 I finally got it working right. I had to remove the pull-up resistor on the trigger circuit, and since i'm not using a tps, i had to set flood clear to 255. After I got that worked out, I was having problems making it go above 4000rpm. After dealing with that for 2 weeks, i finally replaced the coil and all is well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Eureka! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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