Owen Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Me too! DAP only keeps on cracking in some places. Resin or a little mix of bondo is what I have planned for a piece I'm making for my Z32. Still DAP kicks ***! Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 DAP is pretty useful stuff, it's just very time consuming, especially if the humidity is up because it takes forever to dry. I would definitely consider alternatives if I were making larger parts like doors or a hood. I peeled away the plastic sheet a few hours ago while everything was still tacky. I noticed that in the air gaps between the plastic and resin, little beads of moisture were starting to collect. I'm assuming this was off gasing of some kind from the epoxy, which smells a lot like almonds..... Anyway, the plastic came off pretty easily, but now I'm wondering if it was such a good idea to use it in the first place. Anywhere there was a wrinkle, that wrinkle filled with resin, there are also still plenty of low spots where the CF was just barely saturated with resin, but not completely covered over. I can see lots of wet sanding and rolling on of resin in my future prior to clear coating. I think vacuum bagging is really the only good way to cover a laminate with plastic and expect an even finish out of it. Lesson learned for next time. I checked it a few minutes ago, and the resin seems to have kicked OK, the surface isn't tacky anymore, and I was able to cut away some of the excess material with some heavy duty shears. In a few places the laminate actually seperated from the mold when I cut it, so the mold release agent seems to have worked out pretty well. I'll know for sure tommorrow when I try to pop it out. I took some more crappy cell phone pics which I will post as soon as they show up in my yahoo in-box (My regular digital cam is no longer on speaking terms with my computer) Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Can you add more resin, let it cure, then sand? Kinda like color sanding a bunch of layers of clear coat on a paint job. I need to add a disclaimer to every picture I post of my dash...and a sticker on my dash for car shows. "NO, It isn't blinding." Some dumbfux at tt.net "oh, it'll blind you, it'll get you in an accident!" I promptly told them it wasn't going to do either and ended by saying "at least I have SKILLS". Some of those guys are cool and do awesome work, the rest are like monkeys who would be totally lost if a part wasn't a complete bolt-on! Damn rich punks... Time for a new slogan... HybridZ Rules, We Make It Fit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruxGNZ Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I agree with the godfather, BUT this os only ONE of the many rules we have here. An open mind is the first. "A box has as many sides as you want..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 No way! You dis me you dis HZ!!!! ha haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Can you add more resin' date=' let it cure, then sand? Kinda like color sanding a bunch of layers of clear coat on a paint job.[/quote'] DOH! I wasn't even thinking of that. I can't beleive I was going to sand it and then add more resin, and then sand it yet again. I got so used to working with DAP that I'm in the habit of coating, sanding, then coating again to fix low spots, then sanding yet again.... Thanks for pointing that out Owen, sometimes the common sense stuff eludes me when I get wrapped up in a project. The weave pattern still looks really good even after all the streching and pulling to make it conform to the mold, so I will definitely be clear coating this once all the sanding is done. The end caps and underside will get painted with hurculiner or krinkle finish black paint after clear coating, because the CF cloth wasn't wide enough to cover the end caps, and had to be cut to conform to the underside of the dash mold, those areas are still just fiberglass cloth. In a perfect world, the best way to do this would be to make a female mold of the dash, and use a clear gel coat prior to laying up cloth on the inside of it. Vacuum bag the whole thing while the resin cures, and boom, finished product with no work needed except to cut the excess material away from the edges. Doing it the way I have cuts down on materials quite a bit, but adds considerably to the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here comes trouble Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Z tard it was not that you were not thinkinglllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllthose resin fumes were tarding you in what VR John Washington refers to as brain damage. llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllcheap thrills then onset of migraine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nope Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Hey z-tard, what part of SD are you from? I'd like to check out the work youre doing if its cool with you. I kinda play around with composites too so maybe we can share some ideas or whatever. Also, you really should vacuum bag whenever possible, the part will come out way more rigid since it forces the resin to completely wet out the glass/carbon without any voids. Also the more resin you can suck back out, the lighter and stiffer it will turn out. Maybe youe know this already, but ive got a good vacuum pump at home if you want to try another run using it, or just to make a small test piece or whatever. My original dash is in pretty good condition but i dont have a center console/armrest thing, so i was planning on making one relatively soon along with some body work. Ill probably be busy playing with my new ArizonaZ brakes this week since theyre coming in today, but id like to make a trip over if youre free. john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 sweet!! now time to use some FINE FINE sandpaper, and buff her up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Hey z-tard' date=' what part of SD are you from? I'd like to check out the work youre doing if its cool with you. I kinda play around with composites too so maybe we can share some ideas or whatever. Also, you really should vacuum bag whenever possible, the part will come out way more rigid since it forces the resin to completely wet out the glass/carbon without any voids. Also the more resin you can suck back out, the lighter and stiffer it will turn out. Maybe youe know this already, but ive got a good vacuum pump at home if you want to try another run using it, or just to make a small test piece or whatever. My original dash is in pretty good condition but i dont have a center console/armrest thing, so i was planning on making one relatively soon along with some body work. Ill probably be busy playing with my new ArizonaZ brakes this week since theyre coming in today, but id like to make a trip over if youre free. john[/quote'] I wanna see too! I'm only an hour and a half away. HybridZ SD meet! Vac bagging is something I want to get into. ztard, do you have a shot from the front of the dash? Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted January 6, 2006 Author Share Posted January 6, 2006 Just finished trying to pop the dash off of the mold. It's a good thing the mold was made mostly of styrofoam, because I ended up having to claw it out by hand from the backside. What wouldn't claw out I had to beat out from the front, which was easy because the dash is so gosh darn flexible..... I definitely sahould have vacuum bagged this one, and should have covered the mold with duct tape, as one of the easiest parts to release from the mold was the small section that I had taped over prior to laying up cloth and resin. So at this point what I have is a very soft carbon fiber skin that would probably make a good cover for a real dash. The backside is still covered with chunks of foam and DAP. On the positive side, it is very light My options as I see them at this point are to either clean it up and add more cloth and resin to the back for reinforcement, or to start over from scratch and do it again the right way using the lessons I've learned from this one. I'll take some more pics showing the extent of the devestation and post them later. John, if you're up for a road trip, I live way up in Rancho Bernardo. Unfortunately I don't have much to look at right now, but maybe you could help me figure out the best way to salvage this thing. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted January 6, 2006 Author Share Posted January 6, 2006 The carnage: More pics: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I think I see the wrinkles you were talking about. Don't know if you can just use resin to build up on top of that like I suggested...unless they're indentations I guess. Looks good tho! Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted January 6, 2006 Author Share Posted January 6, 2006 As far as I can tell, those wrinkles are only in the resin, the cloth is nice and flat under them. I think after some reinforcement on the inside, I can just add some more rein to the exterior and then sand it down smooth. I'm not sure if the resin I used has any UV protection, if so I won't even need to clear coat. I also found a good way to get all the extra crap left over from the mold out of the dash. I took it to the car wash and blasted the inside with the high pressure spray and was able to get 80% or so cleaned out before I ran out of quarters. The inside surface of this thing looks sooooooo much nicer than the outside. Even under two layers of glass cloth, the CF weave still looks amazing. I hope the outside looks half as good when I'm done sanding and polishing it. If I had it to do over again, I would have used a female mold with vacuum bagging, as well as duct tape instead of spray on mold release agent. It's not even diificult by any stretch of the word to pull laminates off of duct tape. It's sickening how a $2.00 roll of duct tape will outperform a $12.00 can of mold release..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z0wner Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I like that dash A LOT If you ever plan on making molds/dashes I may be interested in a purchase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 It looks good, but sounds like if you try it again it you will get everything perfect. Is there a way to do what you did and vacuum bag it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 It looks good, but sounds like if you try it again it you will get everything perfect. Is there a way to do what you did and[/i'] vacuum bag it? Absolutely, the whole thing could have been wrapped in a large plastic dropcloth and hooked up to suction. I just got in too much of a hurry, and figured I could take a shortcut on it. Knowing what I know now, I would buy the right materials if I were to do it again. A decent vacuum pump, bagging material, and peel ply material to sandwich between the workpiece and the vacuum bag that absorbs extra resin. I think the part I have now will work, and will look fine after some cosmetic work. Anything I make from now on though will be done without taking the same shortcuts. I'll probably still take shortcuts, just not the same ones.... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here comes trouble Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I agree on the female mold.....................................but that male mold of yours gave me an idea how to resuresct the tub of my Tomahawk Z that was vadalized by a moron who tried to splash a mold in my absence on the Tomahawk. I can go inside the tub with resin impregnated DAP to smooth inside surface and splash a mold inside to make a "buck" for a second and final mold of the tub ..thanx.. I maybe back in the Cobra z project. before damage. took him to court and won a settlement for the damage......his attorney really put it to him over fees.........Spay on food grade "PAM" for sticky pans is a good cheap mold release and "green wax" available at about any fiberglass fabrication business is the best mold release after rubbed on. http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/larryjohnson97438/album?.dir=/392a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-Z Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I just skimmed over the thread. What I sugest in doing is, When making the Positive part of the mold is to rough shape it as close to what you want and then use modeling clay (petrolium based), shape it to how you want and then heat it up with a heat gun or blow dryer to has the grease from it come out, this will help even the shape a little and will help the clay to be removed from the negative. when making a negatve to be used as a mold, before you start building the negative, lay a layer of Alginate (dentists use this to make molds of your teeth) over the positive and then build the negative off of that (A lot easier to separate the 2). then when making the actual dash, lay a THIN coat of vasilene over the Alginate and use a heat gun or a blow dryer to even the coat and start laying the CF or fiberglass. Maks the end product more finished and if there are blemishes, they are usually easy to wet sand and buff out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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