Z-TARD Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 After removing my dash to install my new autometer gauges, I noticed how bad its condition really was, and how heavy it was....Behold the birth of yet another side project. My original intent was to create a new dash entirely out of carbon fiber, the cost of materials convinced my to make a hybrid glass/carbon dash instead. The carbon fiber will only be in areas where gauges and heater controls are mounted to increase strength, and for the most part will be largely cosmetic rather than structural. The remainder of the dash will be alternating layers of glass mat and cloth layed out with epoxy resin. I've nearly finished the foam plug that I will be laying the material up on. The foam is all carved out, now I have to cover it with something I can sand to a smooth surface and paint. I stumbled across some stuff in Wal Mart's paint department that I'm going to give a try. It's called DAP, and is a vinyl based spackel compound that would normally be used for drywall. It dries to a hard and non water soluble surface though, and is easy to work with and clean up. Once I get that to a smooth finish I'll paint it, wax it, wax it, wax it, spay on some mold release and lay up some sticky crap on it. Everything will go into a vacuum bag for a few hours, and hopefully everything will turn out OK Heres pics of what I have so far: Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerware Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 the dap stuff works pretty well all in all. It never dries 100% solid. Always stays a little chalky. When painted it seals it pretty well. Just make sure you have lots of coats of paint over it and you don't try and use it to fill too large an area. By the way the pics didn't show. I am really intrigued Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 The carbon fiber will only be in areas where gauges and heater controls are mounted to increase strength' date=' and for the most part will be largely cosmetic rather than structural. [/quote'] The surface of the dash will look patch-worked won't it? Why not just do the very topmost layer in carbon? Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Looking good. Thanks for sharing this with us and keep us updated on your progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2126 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Z-TARD, With all the time you're putting into the new dash mold, it would be a shame not to use the appropriate finish for making a mold. So, do a little research on the web about making molds and the materials used. I have friends that make molds for things on their sailboats and have been do this for years. I'll ask them tonight about a mold's finished surface material and let you know what I find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 The surface of the dash will look patch-worked won't it? Why not just do the very topmost layer in carbon?Owen I'm going to paint the rest of the dash with bed liner paint, which should have enough surface texture to conceal the different layers of cloth. The vacuum bagging will also help to create a more uniform surface as well. The only visible carbon will be the center section. As cool as a complete carbon dash would be, I don't think I'd like all the glare from the upper surface in the windshield. Maybe after a flat clear coat..... I picked up more DAP stuff tonight, and should have the whole thing covered by tommorow, after that lots and lots of sanding. I've rigged up a cheap 12v tire inflator from Wal Mart to act as a vacuum pump for bagging, hopefully it will last long enough for the project befor grenading itself. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 Z-TARD, With all the time you're putting into the new dash mold, it would be a shame not to use the appropriate finish for making a mold. So, do a little research on the web about making molds and the materials used. I have friends that make molds for things on their sailboats and have been do this for years. I'll ask them tonight about a mold's finished surface material and let you know what I find out. Sweet! Getting advice from experienced sources always helps. One of the areas I'm not so sure aout is using DAP as a surfacing material, none of the books I've read have mentioned using products like it at all. The book I'm using as a reference mentions painting a foam mold with laytex paint to protect it from the resins in bondo, and then using bondo to build up the final surface prior to painting. It just seems to make more sense to use a product like bondo that wont attack the styrofoam to build up to a smooth surface, and skip the painting with laytex step altogether. I'm going to try some Epoxy appliance paint that I got at home depot for the final finish, after testing for compatability on scraps of foam/DAP of course. For the most part I'm trying to stick with materials that can be picked up at local stores like Wal Mart and Home Depot, the exception being the epoxy laminating resin and carbon fiber cloth. Thanks for the help, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 the dap stuff works pretty well all in all. It never dries 100% solid. Always stays a little chalky. When painted it seals it pretty well. Just make sure you have lots of coats of paint over it and you don't try and use it to fill too large an area. By the way the pics didn't show. I am really intrigued Still no worky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Mike I see you're from SD, so I know you must own a pair of sunglasses! I don't know if you've seen my dash, but I've painted mine gloss black and I've never had a problem with glare. Plus it looks cool at nite with the street lamps reflecting off it! Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 I saw your car at the last MSA show, needless to say I was very impressed with it, especially your execution of the interior scheme. I love the way it has a very organic, liquid like appearance to it. The only improvement I could suggest would be to do it all over again in carbon fiber I'll probably end up going with a more subdued look for my own though, I've always been a huge fan of flat black. My mold making skills are probably not up to the required skill level to pull off a shiny finish anyway, the dull black will hide a lot of imperfections which I'm sure there are going to be plenty of I put more DAP on the foam plug tonight, it will probably take about a week to dry though due to the humidity out here lately. The stuff I put on it last night was still pretty soft when I checked it today. The Epoxy paint (it says epoxy on the label, but I kinda think it isn't.....) appears to be compatible with the DAP that I applied to a scrap for testing. If all goes according to my evil plan, I should be ready to lay up some cloth and resin by next week. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I avoided carbon fiber for two reasons, one is too much money, and two is too modern looking for my tastes, especially with the ricer craze. Painting the dash cap etc. the same as the exterior would have been pretty wild tho! You mentioned imperfections, flat black will still show them. I would primer, sand, then paint, either gloss or flat black. I'm gonna be in SD on Jan 25th for a meeting, and somewhere in Carlsbad too. If you're around, I'd like to check out your project. Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruxGNZ Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 First, I got to say, Mike the dash is turning out pretty damn good! Keep us updated. Secondly, Owen, when you're in Carlsbad, my buddy just moved there, so if you see a stock black Subaru WRX, tinted windows, and plates from Illinois, show him what a Hybrid Z is, would ya? He's been calling me almost every other day telling me how great Cali' is and how many Z cars he has seen. !M! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2126 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Sweet! Getting advice from experienced sources always helps. One of the areas I'm not so sure aout is using DAP as a surfacing material' date=' none of the books I've read have mentioned using products like it at all. The book I'm using as a reference mentions painting a foam mold with laytex paint to protect it from the resins in bondo, and then using bondo to build up the final surface prior to painting. It just seems to make more sense to use a product like bondo that wont attack the styrofoam to build up to a smooth surface, and skip the painting with laytex step altogether. I'm going to try some Epoxy appliance paint that I got at home depot for the final finish, after testing for compatability on scraps of foam/DAP of course. For the most part I'm trying to stick with materials that can be picked up at local stores like Wal Mart and Home Depot, the exception being the epoxy laminating resin and carbon fiber cloth. Thanks for the help, Mike[/quote'] Well, I talked to my sailboat buddies and they said they use this stuff called "DURATEC". You can find out more info at the Revchem Plastics website or type in Duratec. Revchem calls a mold a plug! This may help when you look through their site. Good luck and keep us posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 From what I could find, the duratec stuff seems like it would be better suited for using as a finish layer on a smoother type of foam. The kit I found came with sealant, and several different primers, but nothing that would leave the amount of buildup required for the foam I'm working with. Depending on how the dash turns out, I may end up using the duratec products along with a smoother styrofoam for my next project (ducted carbon fiber hood) Owen, I'm pretty sure I'll be around on the 25th, I'll pm you with contact info. You driving the Z down here? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Hey Mike, Some buds and I were talking, maybe the foam in a spray can from Home Depot, etc. may work? Beats trying to glue square pieces of foam together... I replied to your PM, and unfortunately no, I won't be in the Z. Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Got your pm. Actually, I used quite a bit of the spray foam on the mold as well, mostly on the backside for reinforcement. The spray on contact adhesive leaves a little to be desired as far as strength goes. Once the first dash is pulled from the mold, I could use the backside of it as a female mold to spray some foam in, making a duplicate plug out of spray foam. It would still be incompatible with polyester resins, but if the surface finish was good enough it could be used for molding with epoxy resins. For now the DAP stuff seems to be working OK for a surface finish, although I dont think it will be durable enough to make more than 1 or 2 dashboards before it starts to crumble off of the foam core. I should have it sanded down and painted sometime this week (Got derailed for a few days due to a cold), I'll keep you guys posted. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted January 29, 2005 Author Share Posted January 29, 2005 Made some progress on the dash over the last few weeks. The DAP surface is all sanded down. That stuff is really easy to work with, and takes spray paint pretty well. The first coat dries really fast because it partially absorbs into the surface of it, so I know the adhesion is going to be pretty strong. I'm doing a few coats of primer first to build up small scratches in the surface so I can wet sand it down before spraying on the epoxy paint. The surface is going to be smooth enough so that I can use this plug to make a female mold out of fiberglass, rather than using it by itself as a male mold. I've also decided to make the dash entirely out of carbon, rather than a hybrid of carbon and glass. I still might end up spraying it with a flat clear coat, depending on how bad the glare bothers me. Unfortunately I don't have any new pics to post, as my camera is currently out of state with the chick I'll post pics as soon as I get it back. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Zone Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 I have been waiting to see how this was going to come out! When can we expect pictures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted January 29, 2005 Author Share Posted January 29, 2005 The chick comes back on Sunday evening, so I should have something worth posting shortly after that. Of course, my original estimates were that I would have it completed by now..... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted February 12, 2005 Author Share Posted February 12, 2005 Heres some pics of the progress so far. I've used up all my rattle can primer, about 6 cans so far. Lots of wet sanding, repainting, wet sanding, repainting, etc. I'm trying to get the finish as flawless as possible before taking a mold off it. I'm quickly learning what a time consuming process this is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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