ToplessZ Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Alright Im getting pretty close to painting my car and actually have two questions. If I have bare metal in places does that mean I automatically use a self etching primer first or can I just scuff and use epoxy primer sealer? What I am wanting to do is a really cheap fairly durable flat black. I do not want to use dp90. I want to use the john deer blitz black or similar industrial satin black paint. It is 24.00 a gallon and looks well along with being durable. Anyway my question with that is the store sells hardner to be used will the enamal paints that increases gloss and hardness. I want to add the hardness to I can have the extra durability however I dont want a high gloss finish. Can I add this to the flat black to get satin or can I add it to the satin without turning it to semigloss. I want a nice eggshell finish. If this system will work I can have a nice satin or flat paint job (hopefully satin) for just a hair over 100 bucks with a ton of paint left over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToplessZ Posted June 1, 2005 Author Share Posted June 1, 2005 anyone??? Im getting antsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToplessZ Posted June 1, 2005 Author Share Posted June 1, 2005 Thanks again for the useful information. Just to clarify the hardner I was referring to was the type of additive that you usually use in one stage paint that helps it dry faster and give it more of a wet look. I just wanted to be sure that by adding it to my satin paint I did not end up with a wet look. Thanks for clearing my confusion about the self etching primer I was pretty sure I could get away without using it. This process should give me about a 100 dollar paint job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 305240 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 If I might offer a low buck suggestion.....Seeing as you are using a one step paint (enamel) Walmart sells a sandable primer in the rattle can. Get a couple of these. It's true, the hardner does kind of give you the wet look with enamel and acrylic enamel. I'd go with the flat black, not the satin. If you are painting over paint, you can get away with watersanding the whole car with abouot a wet 400 grit. Water sand the primer spots so there is no tell tale feathering edges. If you don't, your new paint will tell on you. It will leave a ring where the primer ends. Eagle claw spot putty is good to help blend in these. Don't get in a hurry, as enamel will slide on the floor or run big time on you. Good luck. By the way, the above is a cheap car lot paint job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToplessZ Posted June 1, 2005 Author Share Posted June 1, 2005 argh conflicting information. So I have to use flat black if I want to use the hardner to achieve the satin black color I want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 305240 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Sorry. Let me explain my reasoning. Satin has or is a type of semi gloss. Add the hardner to that and I believe it will be a little more glossier. That's why I suggested the flat. Flat is flat, no shine at all. Add the hardner to it and it will give a little more gloss. I would hazzard to say, something like the satin. Don't quote me on this, but I think it will give you the look you want. Hope this clears it up. I always have to explain my explanations to my wife for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToplessZ Posted June 2, 2005 Author Share Posted June 2, 2005 hmm looks like this still leaves me guessing. I was planning on using the valspar industrial line of paint. It says to use thinner to reduce for brushing and naptha to reduce for spraying. However it does not mention a ratio. I think I will just buy a quart of the stuff its like 8 bucks a quart and seems to work really well on outdoor applications (friend uses this at his farm all the time) The hardner is about 10 If I just test a very small amount all I would be out is some paint and a few bucks. I just wish I new whether to go with the flat or the satin. I dont want a semigloss as I think that would make it look like a bad high gloss paint job. Thanks for the input so far guys. Anyone else done this or similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhadman Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 My Satin Paint Questions I started a thread a couple months ago concerning Satin black paint. The focus of my questions was not related to hardener, but there might be some information you find usefull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil1934 Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57856 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo280zEd Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 wow.. how did I miss this thread.. I actually painted my car with a product Racer X recomended to me as a rust inhibitor and works as an excellent bare metal primer. It's called Zero rust.. I painted my car for 50 bucks and still have half a gallon left. However... as Racer X mentioned... black black is a NIGHTMARE to clean.. I have to get out the green scotch brite pad to get all the bird poop off it. (yes.. the pad you use to scrub the pots and pans). However people love the look, In either case... I'm going with black pearl and high gloss to make my life much easier. As Racer X mentioned.. I would use a deglosser additive from a local paint store and experiment in small mix batches with your hardener, paint , and deglosser. This will yield a more "weather proof" paint job in the long run than playn' with the hardener to get the look you want. I hope this makes since... I have a card a lady at a paint shop gave me when I was going to go with a flat SI blue on my car... 28.8.32 for Flat 20.8.32 for eggshell. These numbers are ounces... first number is deglosser, second number is the catalyst for the clear, third number is the clear. This was for PPG 2021 Clear I believe, still it should give you an idea of the amount. -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToplessZ Posted June 6, 2005 Author Share Posted June 6, 2005 I would really like to do a suede job with another color. I don't think the blitz black is going to be very durable paint and it cannot be topcoated with regular paints without removal. If anyone knows of of some other possibilities in the 100 dollar range. Going for the pro touring rod look with a rat rod attitude and price tag (price tag not exactly optional) If anyone knows where to get quality cheap paint that is compatible with normal paint products please let me know. I think a suede metallic blue or suede metallic tangerine would be awesome. Any ideas on how to do this for 100-150 would be awesome. Possibly cheaper paint products with a ten dollar bag of metal or pearl flake added that they sell on ebay....I want something that will look good for at least 2-3 years and keep my car nicely sealed as well. Im usually pretty resourceful but am striking out here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil1934 Posted June 6, 2005 Share Posted June 6, 2005 Omni line from PPG is cheaper than their regular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToplessZ Posted June 6, 2005 Author Share Posted June 6, 2005 Ive heard really good things about these guys http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com There basecoat is out of my price range though. With their Clear and Epoxy Primer Im a little under 200 that puts me in the 300 dollar paint job range so Im still trying out how to cut some costs. I know I wont need 2 gallons of sprayable primer or probably that much clear either even with bumper and hood to paint on my civic. Looks like its going to be about a month before I get to this step so I will be doing more research on prices maybe someone will offer some suggestions between now and then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToplessZ Posted June 6, 2005 Author Share Posted June 6, 2005 Everything you ever wanted to know about blitz black (aka john deer satin black paint) is in this thread http://www.hotrodders.com/showthread.php?t=31993&page=1&pp=15&highlight=cheap+epoxy+primer I am wondering hopefully racerx or someone will see this? If I epoxy prime the car could I just clear over that for uv protection or is my primer still going to turn white under the clear coat? Also if I went with white epoxy primer is there a way I could pigment it to a different color? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToplessZ Posted June 7, 2005 Author Share Posted June 7, 2005 Well I originally intended to do exactly what you just mentioned however price constraints are a huge issue at this point. I just dont want to have to redo the whole car in a couple of years. If I strip it once thats going to be it. Im pretty sure Im going with the clear and primer from the above mentioned site as I have been researching it and uncovered many great reviews on other forums about it. All I need to do is find a reliable good covering basecoat that is as close to free as possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo280zEd Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 You may not want to hear this but if your going to do it.. do it right and you WON'T have to do it again in a couple years. PPG is really not that expensive especially black. They money comes from usn' expensive primers. -Ed If your going to be that cheap why don't you just go down to Lowes or Home Depot and buy some rustoleum or krylon spray paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToplessZ Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 Umm krylon? Seriously now that sounded sarcastic. I was trying to do my paint for about 200 bucks. I have my clear and primer picked out but thats going to put me at about 250 another 100 for the basecoat and its reducer and activator. However If I want to use another color basecoat Im going to be way more then that and since Im painting the car inside and out I need to order the whole gallon system. I am definatly planning to do this right but Im scared of gloss black in relation to my rookie body work and Im trying to stray from satin black as well. I think a satin metallic blue or copper orange would be pretty cool. I really dont have the cash for the expensive paint but I think I could spend 300 bucks I would just rather spend less. Even spending 300 dollars leaves me short. I still have to buy some supplies and a decent finish gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo280zEd Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 I usually spend about 400 to 450 in supplies to paint a car. that is excluding sanding materials. This will yield a show quality paint job.. everything takes practice. Think about it this way.. it's just paint.. you can fix it. -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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