tonycharger72 Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Got an Idea of another member on Hybridz for an alternative hub idea, Just wondering what you guys thought, whether or not these hubs would be suitable, Here are some pics, http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=3426&cat=500&page=1 http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=3425&cat=500&page=1 The rotor would have to bolt onto the face of the hub, The inner and outer bearings are spot on and the offset from the hub face to the spring perch is pretty much identical from the original zed hub to the aftermarket 5-lug hub, These new 5-lug hubs are supposed to be good for 500kg a corner and my engineer has said they should be okay but might be an idea to use stronger studs, he hasnt seen it yet though, What yall think??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastzcars Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 So from what car are they from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted July 22, 2005 Author Share Posted July 22, 2005 uuummmmmm.........a box trailor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 uuummmmmm.........a box trailor Ah, so they do fit eh. What bearings? Ford or Holden hubs? IMHO the wheel studs look more than adequate, providing they are long enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted July 22, 2005 Author Share Posted July 22, 2005 Holden Bearings, with 5.5" studs, have a 6" diameter, and a ford stud pattern (5by114.3), Cost $29.95AUD from Supercheap , Ark Engineering make them http://www.arkeng.com/html/disc_wheel_hubs.html Part # FH150, bottom left hand corner of the page, I think the engineer was just being cautious......... They slip straight on, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZROSSA Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 So, What brakes are you going to use? You going to redrill the rears? Cheers, Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Some vague recollection of someone using Commodore VT rotors bolted on the hub front, might be worth a look, ~300mm x 28 IIRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted July 22, 2005 Author Share Posted July 22, 2005 No one seems to have VT Commodore hubs locally, and the only places that do have them are from Melbourne and Sydney and they want about $200-250/pair - bugger that, what if they dont work......... But as these Box Trailor Hubs use Holden Bearings, it would, you would think, most likely work, that is of course if Holden used the same bearings for all there cars and if they didnt, knowing which Holden bearings the Box Trailors bearings are from, and then getting that Hub, then hoping the offset didnt change much from the original Zed Hub.......... I dont know yet about the brakes, just started measuring stuff.............. For the Fronts, I would have to mount the Rotor over the face of the hub, and the distance from the hub face to the inboard side of the caliper mounting ears = 90mm, Then add say about 5mm for the thickness of the rotor over the hub, then would need to add 5-10mm thickness for the caliper mounting bracket, If i used R32 GTS Calipers they have an offset of about 20mm, so i would need a Disc Rotor with 80-85mm approx overall height, I could possibly mount the caliper on the outboard side of the caliper strut mounting ears, but i dont know if this is such a good idea............this would make it so the Rotor could have a smaller overall height, But i would need to find a rotor with an inner diameter hole of 55mm (this was the measurement of the centre of the hub from side to side) to suit a Nissan/Ford/Chrysler/Mitsubishi stud pattern, not one of these manfacturers has a rotor that suits this very small inner diameter, all are like 67-71mm or more, Does anyone know if the rotor needs to be a flush fit with the inner diameter on the hub when you mount the rotor to the outside side of the hub? If the Rotor does have to be flush with this inner diameter of the hub, finding a suitable rotor aint going to be much fun at all, In fact, I May have to go a set of 2-piece rotors, atleast for the fronts, But this would still be a cheaper option than custom 5-lug hubs.............. As for the rears, I have a theory.................. Use 300zx complete rear brakes, what im thinking of doing is this................ Using the 297mm Rotor, with the 2-Piston Z32 Calipers and the internal handbrake setup, this is how im thinking it might work, The 300zx and the 240/260/280z both have the same rear centre hole thickess (68mm diamter) - bit behind the hub which goes into where the backing plate is, dont know how eles to desribe it Im thinking that the internal handbrake would fit very snugly onto the rear hubs, the only problem would be the caliper mounting braket, it would have to mount the internal handbrake on its face, and then have two ears on the top to mount the actual rear caliper, which from my calculations it would be really difficult to do with the 300zx rear rotors as i figure there overall height of this rotor pushes them past the 240/260/280z mounting face of the backing plate, which your new rear caliper bracket would bolt to, which means you would have to cut'n'weld, and offset the rear caliper mounting ears backwards towards the diff, something the engineer might frown upon unless you got your rear caliper mounting brackets X-rayed, But i think it could work............could even work with 350z rear brakes aswell........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Fitting VT rotors to the hubs outer face would require machining of the rotors, just what is involved I would not know. Check the DBA site for VT rotor specs, see if its feasible. Alternatively DBA now make a small range of two piece rotors, maybe one of them could be adapted. One thing I do know is that for big front brakes there is no easy solution when adapting other parts to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted July 22, 2005 Author Share Posted July 22, 2005 Thanks for that 260DET, ive checked the DBA website and the Holden Rotors would seem to be okay, but there centre hole is a tad bit to large, about 70mm, whereas i measured my centre hub to be at 55mm, As the Holden Rotor would have to slip over this hub right? So........if the centre hole of the Rotor was to large the rotor would be kinda lose sitting on top of the outer face of the hub, except it should be held fairly firmly in place when it gets put on the studs on the hub, but i dont know if this is ok, Also the holden stud pattern is all wrong............but Ford/Nissan/Mitsubishi/Chrysler should be okay, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 If these are the same offset as the original 240 hubs, then there is a good possibility that they might work with the 13" Mustang Cobra rotors and PBR calipers with the brackets from Modern Motorsports. The aluminum 5 lug hubs Ross sells for those brakes are the same offset as the original 240 hubs, IIRC. Heres a link for the MM Cobra hubs: http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=60 Yup, zero offset. This is getting interesting. Heres the brake kit with the adapters: http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=61 Might be worth comparing against the stock hub just to see how close the offset really is. Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted July 23, 2005 Author Share Posted July 23, 2005 Spring perch to face of stock 260z hub = 125mm Spring perch to face of trailor hub = 124mm, Its pretty darn close, But Them's Cobra Rotors are 43.5mm in height, The distance between the inboard side of the strut caliper mounting ears and the face of the hub is 90mm (or 89mm with the trailor hub), I dont know for certain, but i would assume that Ross's hubs mount the rotor to the rear of the Hub, and not onto the hub face like you would do with the trailor hubs, these trailor hubs dont have a provision for it - the rotor must be mounted over the face of the hub and not to the back of it, BUT.........if you made a bracket that mounted on the outboard side of the strut caliper mounting ears, could make it as thick as you needed to (to get the correct offset for the caliper over the 43.5mm Cobra Rotor) then mounted the caliper to this bracket, and was then able to mount the Cobra rotor over this trailor hub, which to do you would need to press fit something over the hub centre to match the inside hole diameter of the Cobra rotor (the trailor hub is 55mm approx and the Cobra rotor is larger), It could work, Something like, Cobra Rotor Slips over the face of the hub, Make a press fit spacer that sits around the centre of the trailor hub so you get an exact fit with the centre of the Cobra Rotor inner hole diameter, Then, Make a bracket that offsets the Caliper over the Cobra rotor and this bracket is bolted on the outboard side (wheel side, not the engine side of the strut caliper mounting ears), which you can make as thick as you need to to correctly offset the PBR Caliper over the Rotor, Just taking a shot in the dark hear, but, If the distance between the hub face and the inboard side of the strut caliper mounting ears is 90mm, And you mount the Cobra Rotor over the face of the Rotor, the Cobra Rotor being 43.5mm in overall height, Lets say the Hub face soaks up 5mm worth of that height (as the rotor sits over the hub), Now have 43.5 - 5 = 38.5mm left of Cobra Rotor Height, and a distance of 90 - 38.5 = 51.5mm worth of distance between the inboard side of the Strut Caliper Mounting ears and the back of the Cobra Rotor, Now, The PBR caliper probably has an offset of about 20mm (this is just a guess - ie....Caliper mounting face to where the rotor would be centred in it), Now Lets mount the caliper on the outboard side on the strut caliper mounting ears, this should eat up about 10mm more, So now we are down to 51.5 - 20 - 10 = 21.5, This would mean that our Caliper mounting bracket would have to be 21.5mm thick (which is pretty darn thick or we could bend the bracket out to give us a mounting face for the calipers that offsets it 21.5mm from the Strut Caliper mounting ears, make it out of 8-10mm mild steel and then bend the ends to give us a mounting face for the PBR calipers that are offset 21.5mm from the outboard side of the strut caliper mounting ears, So...............i reckon it would work But........not with Ross's Caliper Mounting brackets, because........... http://www.modern-motorsports.com/c...?products_id=60 See how there are 5 lugs and then 5 little holes that arent filled in on his hubs? Im almost certain these 5 little holes are the screw holes that mount the Cobra rotor to the rear of the hub, and his Cobra Brake conversion does not slip over the hub face, it mounts to the rear of the Hub, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 In the picture on his site, it sure looks like the rotor is on the outside of the hub. With only 1mm difference between the 240 hub and the trailer hub, I'm pretty sure this would work I'm not positive, but I think the picture of the 5 lug hub on the MM site is actually one of his Z-31 hubs, which do mount the rotor on the backside. I think the Modern Motorsport kit is absolutely awesome, the only thing that keeps me from getting it is the cost of the aluminum hubs. I don't plan on doing any auto-x or serious racing with my car, so the weight savings is not really an issue. It looks like these might work as a cost effective alternative to the aluminum hubs, and would still be able to use the rest of the components of Ross's excellent kit. I have a set of Cobra rotors if you need any measurements. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted July 23, 2005 Author Share Posted July 23, 2005 Anyone out there please correct me if im wrong, But Ross's Hubs look asif they are, 1 - exact replica's of the 300zx hub, & 2 - exact replica's of the 240z hub with 5-lug instead of 4-lug, Just from the measurements ive taken, that Cobra Rotor bolts to the back of the hub, not the front, the offset of the caliper mounting bracket would be massive otherwise, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 I know of someone who adapted the DBA Subaru two piece rotor package to the front, used Z32 capilers which had 'dog bone' brackets made to fit. He likes it, works well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted July 24, 2005 Author Share Posted July 24, 2005 Well............. Just took some more measurements, Used some calipers this time, & had a look at some WRX rotors (DBA # 52654) The Face of the inside part of the hub is 56.38mm, 56mm, this is soooooo close to the centre of the Subaru WRX rotor, its centre hole is 58mm and the Yank rotor has the correct PCD of 114.3mm by 5, Now if we measure the distance between the hub face and the OUTBOARD side of the caliper strut mounting ears, the distance is 75mm, So if we slip the Subaru Rotor over the face of the Trailor Hub, lets say this soaks up 5mm of the rotors overall height, which is 53mm, therefore 53-5 = 48mm, Using a set of GTS-T 4-Spot R32 Sumitono Calipers which has an offset of 20mm to centre the rotor, So, to centre the rotor over the caliper, we need to push the Caliper's centre out to (75mm-48mm = 27mm), so just use a 7mm flat bracket to mount the caliper to the strut caliper mounting ears, Couldnt be easier Well maybe, but there are only two problems with this, 1 - Its a trailor hub , might be a brave man who whacks one of these on the front of their car, but they are rated at 500kg, and if you used ARP studs i think they would be pretty strong, the engineer will be out next week so ill hassle him for his opinion, see what he says, 2 - The rotors centre hole is 58mm, whereas this Trailor hubs centre is 56mm, but im sure there is someway around this..........its soooooo close Im going to go to some Holden/Ford Wreckers tomorrow so ill see what i can figure out with Hubs, ill try and get my hands on VP to VT hubs and XY/XW/XA-B-C Hubs and see if any suit, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted July 25, 2005 Author Share Posted July 25, 2005 Did some investigation today, Ive found alot of cars used they same wheel bearings as the 1970-78 Zeds, And ive found atleast 2 hubs which could be adapted to fit, The 142-144 Volvo Hubs & The HG Holden Hubs, Mearsuring from the outside of the inner and outer bearings on my 260z the distance = 75mm, The trailor hub = 75mm The Volvo hub = 78mm HG Hub = 80mm, The problem with the Volvo & HG Hub is they have a PCD of 108 by 5, dont know how many other cars have this same PCD, I think some Jag do............. I checked out VR/VS Holden Hubs, but these were unsuitable, ive attached a pic, its not that greatest quality, but you can see that the Datsun bearing cleary has a bigger centre diameter than the Holden Bearing, much much bigger, also the Holden bearings are part of the hub, dont think this hub can be modified, No one had VT hubs Locally, but they are supposed to be very similar, i think modding this hub to suit would be very difficult, http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=3483&cat=500&page=1 I think Ford Falcon 1966-72 Hubs might work, but not one single person seems to have them Locally, these hubs use the same bearings as the Datto, so i think they could be made to work, After 1972 Ford went to a Hub/Rotor which was effectively 1-piece, from 1966-72 they used a two piece rotor and hub setup, where the rotor bolted to the back of the hub, like our zed cars, Just finding one is going to be a bugger............... That good news about the Volvo Hub is that you could easily modify it to get the correct spacing between the bearings, its 5-lug, it would appear that its offset is very close to the Zeds and its not a trailor hub, However, Its got a pretty odd PCD, and might get really lucky actually trying to find a rotor with the same 108 by 5 PCD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I would have no problem with using the trailer hubs and I bet my car pulls more G's than yours ever will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted July 25, 2005 Author Share Posted July 25, 2005 i dont know champ, ill be strapping in the f111 jet engine soon id say your right, i looked at alot of hubs today and i swear not one of them looked as strong as my trailor hub, and the f#ckers are rated at 500kg!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonycharger72 Posted July 25, 2005 Author Share Posted July 25, 2005 Hear are some Jaq hubs on the zed, http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=3484&cat=500&page=1 The first one is from a early 70's Jaq and uses a PCD 5 by 120 (chevy, bmw & jaq), the same inner & outer bearings as the Zed, but, the bearings dont have the same spacing though, the zed is 72-5mm apart, the one is 90mm apart, so would have to try and move the outer bearing inwards 15-18mm, (dont know if its possible), Rotor bolts to the bolt of the hub, Track is changed outwards 8mm http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=3485&cat=500&page=1 The second is from a 1987 Later Jaq ones and uses a PCD 5 by 120 (chevy, bmw & jaq), the same inner bearings as the Zed, but the outter is much larger, as you can see from the pic, so would have to put in some sort of spacer, & the bearings dont have the same spacing though, the zed is 72-5mm apart, the one is 65mm apart, so would have to try and move the outer bearing outwards 8-10mm, (dont know if its possible either), Rotor bolts to the front of the hub, Track is changed outwards 11mm, So neither seem to really be all that suitable, but the 2nd one would be fairly easy to mod to get to suit the Zed, but has a large change in track Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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