Guest levelhead86 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Check out this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1977-Datsun-280Z-Converted-to-accept-302-Ford-engine_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6783QQitemZ8045986710QQrdZ1 and notice the motor mounts they used. I've haven't really seen that design before and it's pretty simple but it seems to make sense, as it basically takes the crossmember out of the equation, keeps the motor *reasonably* low, and pretty far back. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest levelhead86 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I'm going to be swapping into a 302 into my 280zx, and though this isn't the same setup, I've figured I'm going to have to fabricate the mounts myself *unless David K comes up with something first...?* and the easier the better; as long as it works well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoeightnine Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Doesn't say that the motor has ever been in the car. Looks as if the motor would mount direct or with mod'ed upper mounts. Mount integrity could be an issue. At $750 one just may be buying a donor to start over with. Dont see much reason to assume that one would be getting more than a shell out of the deal. look at it that way and it's not a bad deal. Don't forget to keep Alsil in mind, you just might need him in the end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Those mounts aren't all that different from those used by several guys to swap ford motors into a Z. It's been reported that after a while the frame rail starts to twist as it's the only thing supporting the weight and torque of the engine. This is why Alsil built the crossmember mount he did. The ad also says it's not a rust bucket but then in an answer to a bidder says the floor is rusted through in front of both seats (driver and passegner sides). I'd stay way away from this one, but thats me. I've been through the "it's not rusty" thing on eBay and spent many months repairing the "small" amount of rust on my 240Z. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest levelhead86 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Yeah... I wasn't really interested in the car... just the looking at the mounts that were in there.... is there any way of using a similar design and maybe triangulating it with the frame and some 1.25" round tube, or something? I dunno... I just was really looking to see what I could do to solve the issue of fabricating some motor mounts for the 302 in my 280zx, without breaking the bank at the metal shop. Any other ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 One thing you'll find is the engine bay in the ZX is about 3" shorter than the Z. I looked at doing this swap before I got my 240 and decided to go a different direction. I don't think those type mounts will work in a ZX because the crossmember is closer to the firewall which makes it tough to get the engine far enough back to bolt the mounts to it and the frame rails. The front oil sump on the Ford 302 also causes problems. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest levelhead86 Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Well, unfortunately for me, I already have the zx, so I guess here is where I figure out what the hell to do to make it work... I know that s3079893 mentioned something about using the "fox body sump" relocates the drop in such a way that the pan can straddle the crossmember. I know that he also mentioned the mounts he was designing * http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/s3079893/mountcad.jpg * which look similar to Capt. Zorro's 280Z setup... At this point, I'd drop the money to buy some/have somebody make them, but there's not really anybody I've seen even offering anything...? I may just get the motor and trans on the cherry picker and stick her in there, and see what kind of thing I can come up with... The only thing that's been holding me back, is that there's certain handling issues that change depending on where the motor is placed that those of you who have done it, would know better than I. What a damn mess I got myself into. Thanks for your help so far guys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 What part of the country do you live in? Have you considered going with an SBC? It's a known swap. I'm more of a Ford guy myself and intended to swap a 302 into my 240 but found an LT1 for a good price before finding a 302 so I went the Chevy route instead. I'd still like to do a 302 at some point but don't want another Z right now. Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest levelhead86 Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 I live in Upstate, New York.... Unfortunately/fortunately for me, I already have a 302 that's pretty much bulit and a transmission, and nothing else to really to put it in.... hehehe... this is starting to sound more and more like a horror story but hey, if I pull it off then it'll be sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3079893 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Wheelman is 100% right, that type of mount would put a huge torque onto the frame rails which the frame rails weren't design to take. If you do go with this design I would connect the 2 mounts together to effectively make a new crossmember, otherwise I wouldnt try this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest levelhead86 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 If I were to make that style of mount/crossmember and have it sit back reasonably further, then that means I can eliminate the original crossmember without worrying about frame twist, or does there still need to be some kind of a brace further up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 These mounts really need to be tied together in a rigid manner unless these mounts are solidly bolted to the engine block (which does not appear to be the case). Rubber mounting onto these mounts would cause them to sag (or crack and tear the frame rails) eventually as the frame rails would try to twist. Solidly connecting them (either through a crossmember of some sort, or through the block itself) would eliminate this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest levelhead86 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 What can of worms will I be opening, may I ask, if they're tied together directly through the block? *noise, etc.?* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2126 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 What can of worms will I be opening, may I ask, if they're tied together directly through the block? *noise, etc.?* You wouldn't be opening a can of worms but, you will certainly get some engine vibration transmitted that you will hear and feel. Also, if you do rigidly mount the front of the engine, don't forget to rigidly mount the tranny as well. If you don't, you will be asking for eventual failure of the front mounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest levelhead86 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Ok, so here comes the inevitable question... what's the best/most effective way of mounting that bad boy in the 280zx? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3079893 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 for a start i wouldn't under any circumstances bolt the engine to the chassis with having rubber mounts inbetween, ( it's not legal to do that in Aus anyway, (i dont know about usa)). Because the 280zx has less space inbetween the cross member and the firewall, it is not possible to construct another crossmember with moving steering shafts and rack. I still believe the best way of doing it is making new mounts that bolt onto the engine which bolt onto the origanal 280zx mounting points, like my ones. I should post some pics of my mounts in a week or so, (whenever i get time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest levelhead86 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 for a start i wouldn't under any circumstances bolt the engine to the chassis with having rubber mounts inbetween, ( it's not legal to do that in Aus anyway, (i dont know about usa)). Because the 280zx has less space inbetween the cross member and the firewall, it is not possible to construct another crossmember with moving steering shafts and rack. I still believe the best way of doing it is making new mounts that bolt onto the engine which bolt onto the origanal 280zx mounting points, like my ones. I should post some pics of my mounts in a week or so, (whenever i get time) Yeah... I think your motor mounts and Capt. Zorro's *even though they're 280z* have been the best I've seen; if you include dimensions/the original solidworks file, I could probably make-up/have somebody make-up a scale-model of one/both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3079893 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 The Soildworks model i made was just using basic rough dimensions, just to get an idea of the strength of the mounts. Just use this model as a guide. The easiest way to build the mounts is to: -make two plates, one that bolts onto the block, the other that bolts onto the rubber mount. -Then place the engine where you want it, -then use skissors to cut cardboard into the shape you need to join the plates. -use this cardboard cut out as a stensile to cut your steel piece. -tack weld the steel piece to the 2 plates with the engine in position. the reason i cant supply you with the dimensions of my mounts is because, the are so many complex angles to measure, and i dont have the means of measuring them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest levelhead86 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Oh, I understand entirely. You've been a great help... I think I'll try that as soon as I get a chance to prep the cherry picker. The last question I have *for now...* is, what should I be doing for pump/sump/pan? I know I've heard time and time again, that a different setup from your average 302 is necessary to get that low enough and far enough back to keep it from throwing off the handling substantially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2126 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Correct me if I'm wrong here but, I believe there is a rear sump pan assembly that was used on a Bronco or some model truck....can't remember! Another option would be to fab up a custom rear sump pan and oil pick-up tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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