WickedWild Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Last night I sold my 305 complete, carb to pan (I kept the valve covers). I’ve also procured a 350 block (’89 pickup) and a set of 2.02 heads (3 angle port/polish all fresh). And my plans so far are… .030 over (355) forged flat tops floating H beam rods Forged crank Splice to 4 bolt main Demon 750 carb I’m planning on building the engine in two stages. First stage will be hydraulic lifters and a summer on the engine to break it in. Stage two will be upgrading to rollers and adding a progressive 200 shot of giggle juice. I’m running a T5 and 3.70 gears in the rear. I know the t5 wont last long after the I start spraying but I already have a spare and should have a WC in there before I brake the second one. I want to build towards the upper RPM band sacrificing low-end torque. The cars main purpose is spirited driving with occasional trips to the ¼. Couple questions: #1 Would it be smart to run one cam for this summer and a second specialized more for the spray? #2 Am I going to have to change cams anyway when I go from Hydraulic to roller? #3 Intake recommendations? #4 Distributor recommendations? #5 What am I missing here? Any suggestion and or comments appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 ok ,first Ill point out that its silly to build any combo smaller than a 383-396 simply because the costs involved are just not that much greater and the potential performance IS significantly higher. next I think your missing the OPTION of useing a flat tappet solid lifter cam, it will approach the rollers power, rev far higher than a hydrolic flat tappet and be far less expensive than a roller cam. next you failed to list the heads youll use, but Id assume they are similar to the early performance cast heads, (im forced to point out they have less potential than the better aftermarket heads) but lets assume youll use them, youll NEED a FORGED AND BALLANCED ROTATING ASSEMBLY TO USE SERIOUS NITROUS http://www.flatlanderracing.com/index.html heres a basic combo your fuelie or similar heads (clearanced for a .550 minimum lift) a rotateing assembly to build a 10.7-10-9:1 cpr 383-or-396 sbc add a crane 110921 cam, or if your willing to sacrifice a few peak hp for a noticably smoother but still lopey idle a #114681 cam http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=110921&lvl=2&prt=5 or http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=114681&lvl=2&prt=5 add a professional products #52030 intake http://www.professional-products.com/manifoldsProductSBchevy.php a good 7-8 qt baffled oil pan with matching z28 pump and pick-up similar to this http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?lang=-1&catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=21571 a good 750 cfm carb results will be a well balanced combo that has both excellent tq and power in the 3000rpm-6700rpm range http://www.bracketmasters.com/small_block_stroker_383_cu.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedWild Posted April 6, 2006 Author Share Posted April 6, 2006 Grumpy I’m glad to see you post to my thread. I’ve read through a lot of your posts and have tremendous respect for your insight. I have a hard time learning from a monitor I’ve read many books and countless numbers of your links, but it all has a hard time sticking until I physically put my hands on it. I assembled my 305 and that after years of reading finally made sense. That and I spend too much time second guessing myself. I understand that an engine is an air pump, the more air you move the more power you make. And a bigger pump will move more air. Reasons I’m shying away from a 383/396 is a short power band and the steep torque band. I’m afraid that without dedicating the car to straight line racing I’ll have traction problems and take away the spirit of a light toss able car. When I rebuilt the 305 I built more towards torque and less peak hp and I hated the engine. The car was faster, made plenty of more power but I didn’t like the way it ran out of breath so fast. RPM’s ruin people’s motors, but they are addicting and I really don’t expect to get a lot of miles out of an engine wound so tight. The heads are Chevy cast iron 2.02/1.60 that has been reworked I picked them up for $250 complete and they let me focus the majority of my funds into the block and rotating assembly. Next spring when I add nitrous funds permitting I’ll upgrade, if not then they won’t be forgotten. My main concern is a solid short block that will handle latter upgrades. Of course I could be completely wrong with my assumptions of a 383/396 after reading all of this again. Am I wrong in assuming that a 383/396 is only good for stump pulling torque? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS1 240Z Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 if you must go with a SBC go with a 4.00 bore (400 sbc) and a 350 crank. you will have a motor that wraps up quick with lots of upper rpms. lots of guys use them when they run powerglides at the drag strip becuase of the 7k plus redline. seriously look into upgrading from a gen 1/2 motor to the gen 3/4 motor (LS1, 2, 6, 7) the initial cost is more, and you would have to switch motor/trans mounts but its completely worth it IMO, the LSx motors are FAR more advanced than the gen1/2 arcitecture (sp?) a bone stock LS1 has a redline of 6,000 and can take 7,000 rpms depending on what block you get. LSx motors rule the first gen. for a picky person with a decent budget you will be exremly happy with a LSx motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 "Am I wrong in assuming that a 383/396 is only good for stump pulling torque?" yeah, your wrong, here! the cam,compression,and heads have a good deal more to do with the way the engine responds, stroke alone is basically not a big factor,think about it, a 427 big block engines known as a high rpm screamer, it has a 3.76 stroke just like a 383,your 305 had a short stroke,(3.48" just like the 350, but it was not a high rpm combo! yet a 3.48" stroke in a 350 can be! build the engine as listed with the cam and compression listed, ETC. and youll see a totally differant style engine that wraps up quickly to 6700rpm, with a torque curve that starts off low and goes up rapidly maybe one of the guys here can post a dd-2000 dyno curve to show you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedWild Posted April 6, 2006 Author Share Posted April 6, 2006 Grumpy: I would be verry interested to see that combo on the dd-2000 dyno. LS1 240Z: I would love to use an LS1, but I have my block and heads, and the car is completely set up for a first gen there is a subtancial $$ differance for me to change at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boodlefoof Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 maybe one of the guys here can post a dd-2000 dyno curve to show you Ask and ye shall receive. But first... you can't really take DD2000 as 100% accurate. It may be close, may not be... take the numbers for comparison purposes. 355 cubic inch with first solid, flat-tapped cam and 462 casting heads (one of the better flowing factory heads of the 60s). 10.5:1 compression, and "single plane" manifold (equivalent to the Edelbrock Victor Jr.). 398 horses @ 5500rpm, 418 ft. lbs. torque @ 4500rpm. If you up the cubes to 383... 392 horses @ 5500rpm, 436 ft. lbs. torque @ 4000rpm. With the second cam... all else being the same. 355 cubic inches = 403 horses @ 5500rpm, 429 ft. lbs. torque @ 4500rpm. 383 cubic inches = 399 horses @ 5000 rpm, 450 ft. lbs. torque @ 4000rpm. Now, if you were to run with some better flowing heads (a little more appropriate with these cams)... say the AFR 210cc head. First cam ... 355 cubes = 469 horses @ 6500rpm, 440 # torque @ 4500rpm 383 cubes = 474 horses @ 6000rpm, 465 # torque @ 4500rpm Second cam... 355 cubes = 488 horses @ 6500rpm, 448 # torque @ 5000rpm 383 cubes = 480 horses @ 6500rpm, 475 # torque @ 4500rpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 notice the tq peaks well below the horsepower peak and the house power peaks in the 6000rpm-6500rpm band, peaks but does not fall off quickly untill your at or above 6700rpm, a combo like this (ESPECIALLY WITH GOOD HEADS AND A LOW RESTRICTION EXHAUST) with tuned headers produces street tire destroying power from just over 3000rpm to well over 6000rpm, in a 3000lb or lighter (Z) that will easily get your car into the low 12s/high 11s on street tires if its set up correctly. http://www.gordon-glasgow.org/hpcalc.html http://vette.ohioracing.com/hp.html http://www.escort-us.com/1-4ET.htm http://www.runeb.org/www_docs/Jexoticasite/frames/horsepowercalc.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS1 240Z Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Grumpy: I would be verry interested to see that combo on the dd-2000 dyno.LS1 240Z: I would love to use an LS1' date=' but I have my block and heads, and the car is completely set up for a first gen there is a subtancial $$ differance for me to change at this point.[/quote'] well if you have block and heads roll with it man! are you going to do a miniram FI or what?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedWild Posted April 11, 2006 Author Share Posted April 11, 2006 Sorry for the late reply I was out of state for the weekend. Boodlefoof: Thank you for the numbers they are encouraging. With those numbers I wont have to spray as much as I thought. Grumpy: I found an advertisement from Powerhouse in Bakersfeild CA that advertises a 383 all forged kit for $928 *edit* Their advertised forged 383 kit is steel crank, I-beam rods, molly rings, gaskets, H series cleveite bearings, press fit pistons. For $989 To upgrade to RPM H-rods and Probe floating pistons it takes the total to $1209 I’m waiting for Phill to call me back from Flatlander racing to price me a kit. *EDIT* Phil called $1500 crank/rods/pistons only. LS1 240Z: I’m planning on running a carburetor on this setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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