Questions regarding Velo Rossa Spyder

[Guest Phrozin]

First, Let me say Hello. I've been reading this site thoroughly for the past 3 nights getting every scrap of information on these kits that I can. Second, Let me say there are some seriously beautiful cars the members here have produced.

 

I have been mildly building cars since I was 7 years of age. I say mildly because my area of expertise (such as it is) is drive line and electrical. I've not gotten into bodywork (shaping/painting/filling), and I've never done any welding to speak of. I've been seriously chasing a boyhood dream of owning a Ferrari 365 GTB/4 kit like the one in "Miami Vice" for the past year. Sadly Mcburnie's kits are no where to be found for obvious reasons, and the other kits out there just don't appear right to my eye. I did however stumble across Reactionresearch.com's website 4 days ago showing the Z based 365 kit and a Velo Rossa Sypder kit. I didn't care for the 365 kit, but the Velo Rossa Sypder grabbed me and just wont let go.

 

With my limited body experience, I have a few questions that I couldn't find through searching. (I searched "building a GTO", and "GTO")

 

1. When the roof-line is cut off the vehicle you will obviously have to reinforce the body as it's a unibody frame. However, do you need to reinforce the windshield frame as well?

 

2. On Wagz personal website he shows the cut roof-line at the windshield, (Now I'm assuming here the Velo Rossa kit comes with the Header Cap), but it doesn't show the cap in place. So, are the top latches (assuming you also purchased the convertible top) incorporated into the cap or do you have to weld them onto the windshield frame first?

 

3. I believe the Z's came with 4 lug hubs because I've seen 5 lug upgrades on sites for sale. Anyone happen to know what the bolt pattern measurements are for the 4 and 5 lugs? (IE 5x114MM)

 

4. I've sourced a BMW V12 M70, but have no idea what this is going to do to weight distribution, handling, or suspension. Should I just got with the easier American V8 approach and save myself money and headaches?

 

5. When sourcing the donor car I assume one wants no rust in the floor pans and rails due to the fact it's a unibody, But is there a preferred year for this kit (it suggests 1970-78 240-280 Z, but I assume there to be a sweet spot)? Do any of the 1970-78 Z's come with 4 wheel disk brakes?

 

6. (Last one I swear!) I've been reading some people have used a different front and rear bonnet (fascia/clip). Why do they do this, is the front better manufactured by one company while the rear is better manufactured by another?

 

Sorry for the long introductory post. I would just like to get my head straight before I go buying things before I've finished my current vehicle project.

 

Thanks for your time,

Joe

[veritech-z]

I've never been that into the full body conversions, but i hope yours goes well. the only info i've really got for you is that the 4 and 5 lug hubs are both on a 114.3 bolt circle. also, there is a pretty cool thread in the other engines forum about a bmw v-12 ferrari conversion, just run a search for bmw v-12 and it should come up.

[Dan Juday]

As far as which year S30 ('70-'78 Z cars) to chose for your donor I would recommend '75 or later as they have a stronger (and heavier) chassis overall. If you live in California '76 and later are subject to bi-annual emissions testing which adds another layer of complication to a motor swap. However, you can apply for a specialty/replica title for the car which exempts it from testing.

 

John includes a windshield header cap with his kit. It does not have provisions for latches. The wind shield frame does not require reinforcement.

 

The chassis does, and his manual includes info on that. I have done this to another S30 chop-top kit and I would recommend sub-frame connectors, strut tower bracing, sill reinforcement, and sill to rear wheelhouse triangulation as well as reinforcement to the vertical section behind the seats to tie the tower, sill and wheelhouse sections all together. This may seem excessive to some people but it makes for a pretty tight car without a cage.

 

The reason people mix and match front and rear tubs from different manufacturers is that some like a roadster, some a coupe. Some like a hood and some like a full tilt front. It's just personal preference.

 

John Washington's products are top quality and the man is a professional to work with.

[Zerrari GTO]

Hi Phrozin,

 

I was bitten by the Velo Rossa bug a couple of years ago. I have completed all the structural modifications and am ready to install the body (I have some of the body components now and will have the rest shipped asap).

 

Here is what I have learned.

 

1). You don't have to reinforce the window frame but some builders have driven a steel rod through the pillar and welded it in for added strength.

 

2). The latches for the convertible top are bolt on. John Washington did not origionally make the car with a rag top so everything is retrofit. I took a ride in Steve Graber's car before commiting to this project and his was the first Velo Rossa to have the conv. top added. It looked and worked OK but I am still considering other options for a top.

 

3). I don't know about the lug pattern; I'm going with wire knock-offs (probably from Dayton).

 

4). The body kit alone is a major undertaking (sub-frame connectors, new fuel tank for dual exhausts, added bracing just to name a few things) so I wanted the engine swap to be as easy and straight forward as possible. Went the SBC route due to all of the information available.

 

5). The later model Z's were stiffer and had more reinforcement. Since you will be cutting the top off of the car I went with a 78 280Z (usually less expensive than a good 240Z too).

 

6). Often the reason for using the front bonnet from a company other than Reaction Research is to have a hood set-up like the origional GTO rather than the tilt front on the Velo Rossa. I like the tilt front for accessability to the engine and since Enzo never made a convertible GTO, origionality is not big factor.

 

Good luck with everything! Keep us posted on your progress.

[Guest Phrozin]

I've never been that into the full body conversions, but i hope yours goes well. the only info i've really got for you is that the 4 and 5 lug hubs are both on a 114.3 bolt circle. also, there is a pretty cool thread in the other engines forum about a bmw v-12 ferrari conversion, just run a search for bmw v-12 and it should come up.

Thanks Veritech for the well wishes and the info on the wheels. I searched for the thread and found it, again thanks. Lots of good info in there.

 

As far as which year S30 ('70-'78 Z cars) to chose for your donor I would recommend '75 or later as they have a stronger (and heavier) chassis overall. If you live in California '76 and later are subject to bi-annual emissions testing which adds another layer of complication to a motor swap. However' date=' you can apply for a specialty/replica title for the car which exempts it from testing.

 

John includes a windshield header cap with his kit. It does not have provisions for latches. The wind shield frame does not require reinforcement.

 

The chassis does, and his manual includes info on that. I have done this to another S30 chop-top kit and I would recommend sub-frame connectors, strut tower bracing, sill reinforcement, and sill to rear wheelhouse triangulation as well as reinforcement to the vertical section behind the seats to tie the tower, sill and wheelhouse sections all together. This may seem excessive to some people but it makes for a pretty tight car without a cage.

 

The reason people mix and match front and rear tubs from different manufacturers is that some like a roadster, some a coupe. Some like a hood and some like a full tilt front. It's just personal preference.

 

John Washington's products are top quality and the man is a professional to work with.[/quote']

Thanks for the reply Dan Juday,

I keep a look out of the 1975+ years. I live outside of Tampa Florida and there are no emission standards here. It is a good point you bring up though.

 

Yeah I assumed the sub-frame connectors were going to be required and maybe a little extra support here and there. My father and I put some on a mustang back in `87 and that about limits my welding abilities. I was think of using a X type connector verses the straight through kind.

 

Glad to hear that about Mr. Washington as I was going to start emailing him with questions about the kit soon as I find a donor vehicle.

 

Hi Phrozin' date='

 

I was bitten by the Velo Rossa bug a couple of years ago. I have completed all the structural modifications and am ready to install the body (I have some of the body components now and will have the rest shipped asap).

 

Here is what I have learned.

 

1). You don't have to reinforce the window frame but some builders have driven a steel rod through the pillar and welded it in for added strength.

 

2). The latches for the convertible top are bolt on. John Washington did not origionally make the car with a rag top so everything is retrofit. I took a ride in Steve Graber's car before commiting to this project and his was the first Velo Rossa to have the conv. top added. It looked and worked OK but I am still considering other options for a top.

 

3). I don't know about the lug pattern; I'm going with wire knock-offs (probably from Dayton).

 

4). The body kit alone is a major undertaking (sub-frame connectors, new fuel tank for dual exhausts, added bracing just to name a few things) so I wanted the engine swap to be as easy and straight forward as possible. Went the SBC route due to all of the information available.

 

5). The later model Z's were stiffer and had more reinforcement. Since you will be cutting the top off of the car I went with a 78 280Z (usually less expensive than a good 240Z too).

 

6). Often the reason for using the front bonnet from a company other than Reaction Research is to have a hood set-up like the origional GTO rather than the tilt front on the Velo Rossa. I like the tilt front for accessability to the engine and since Enzo never made a convertible GTO, origionality is not big factor.

 

Good luck with everything! Keep us posted on your progress.[/quote']

Thanks Zerrari GTO,

 

good to hear the windshield is fairly stout to begin with. I'll probably still reinforce it just for peace of mind, but at least now I don't have to go over-board with it.

 

Much better as bolt on latches then weld on. I was actually thinking of doing a hard-top convertible, only concern is I live in Florida and it seems to rain whenever it pleases itself.

 

I like the knock-ffs, but I'm concerned about security as taking them off would be an easy task of an experienced thief. Course I shouldn't be parking it anywhere where that will be a concern though.

 

The more I'm thinking about it the SBC is sounding like a better idea. Mostly for the price. Custom bellhousings, motor mounts, and other little stuff is going to add up real fast.

 

origionality is not big factor for my either. I love the flip front and the drop top to much to let go.

 

Anyone else notice how much the corvettes resemble the series 2 GTO's?

[Wagz]

Hi Phrozin,

 

I see from your 1st post that you stumbled across my little site on the web. Somewhere I have a picture of the VR header cap installed on my chassis. I'll look around for it and post it on my site. Unfortunately, I haven't posted much to my site (or worked on the project much) in the last year.

 

If I remember what was written in my VR install manual (as Zerrari pointed out) several guys have used 1" rebar drivin down the legs of the windshield frame and welded to the chassis.

 

I followed Pete Paraska's plans for adding subframe connectors and it was pretty impressive how much just adding those stiffened the chassis. I will also be adding permanently welded strut tower bracing in the back and removable bracing in the front. It should be stiff enough to handle V8 torque, especially if you aren't planning on racing

 

I used 5 lug upgrade components from Modern Motorsports and Mike Gibson. The components give you a 5x4.5 bolt pattern (basic Ford pattern).

 

Oh, and before I started this Velo Rossa journey I didn't weld either. Now I own a nice MillerMatic welder and I'm a welding fool.

 

Welcome to the Hybridz and Velo Rossa clubs!

[Dan Juday]

Yeah I assumed the sub-frame connectors were going to be required and maybe a little extra support here and there. My father and I put some on a mustang back in `87 and that about limits my welding abilities. I was think of using a X type connector verses the straight through kind.

 

 

An X type brace under the floor would be an excellent way of addressing twist. The problem is the lack of space. Unless you run side pipes there isn't room for exhaust and an X brace. Even then it's going to cost you valuable ground clearance. And the GTO just doesn't look right jacked-up.

[Zerrari GTO]

Dan's right. Ground clearance becomes a big issue with this kit; sectioning the strut tubes really brings the car down. I used Pete Paraska's plan for modifying the front differential crossmember to have provisions for dual exhaust (used his plans for subframe connectors also). Oil pan from a corvette, etc, etc, etc.

[280Zone]

If anyone is looking for a Velo Rossa rear clip I have one I won't be using and can make you a deal on it.