TKO to LSx Anyone?

[Pop N Wood]

I am examining some options here and was wondering if anyone has sucessfuly installed a TKO transmission and LSX engine into a Zed?

 

The two big issues I have yet to resolve is where will the shifter come out when using JCI mounts and what type of clutch linkage I would need to use.

 

From what I can tell, it looks like the TKO shifter will be 3.5 inches farther forward than the late F body T56. This link has pop ups which show the T56 and TKO dimensions.

 

http://www.fortesparts.com/catalog.cfm?catalogID=2

 

The old style Chevy bellhousings are an inch taller than the LSX ones.

 

If all of the above is correct, any ideas if this could be made to work with the JCI monts? I also thought the 240's (which I have) and the 280's have shifter holes that are positioned slightly differently. Anyone notice that with the JCI kits?

 

For clutch linkage, I have gotten everything from just using the LS1 stuff to using the old school SBC mechanical stuff.

[BringIt]

Why not the T-56? They do have a New Gearset that will support upto 1khp now or so they claim.

 

Gotta love that Overdrive Gear too! Damn.

[80LS1T]

The 2 big downfalls of the T56 are weight and price. Thats why people want to go with other trannys.

 

What does the TKO cost and weight?

 

Guy

[jt1]

Is there a bellhousing to connect the LSX to a TKO? If so, this would be an ideal combo. The only downside to a LSX is that what weight is saved in the motor, most of it is lost using a T56.

 

With a 1st gen/JTR/TKO/Pro 5.0 setup, I had to trim about 1/2" out of the front of the shifter opening, with the shifter in the rearmost position.

 

A TKO weighs about 105#, cost is around $1800-$2000 or so.

 

John

[Pop N Wood]

I'm still kicking around options here. Haven't really decided yet. I was looking at the TKO over the T56 because of strength, gearing and the fact the TKO has both mechanical and electronic speedo hook ups.

 

If you look at the first link I posted, they have a table listing the dimensions and weights of the TKO, T56 and T5's. They also have pop up links showing the dimensions.

 

http://www.fortesparts.com/catalog.cfm?catalogID=2

 

So the TKO weights 105# where as the T56 weights anywhere from 115# to 130#. For prices, in th elink below a new TKO 600 is $1900.

 

http://www.5speedtransmissions.com/tr-3550.html

 

So not cheap, but about the same as a new, aftermarket T56. The price of a new over used tranny goes up even more when I add a bellhousing, linkage etc. I want a new clutch anyway so that is a push.

 

But from calling a couple of these tranny places, the TKO is a much stronger transmission (rated at 600 ft-lbs of torque). The first link shows the F-car T56's are rated at under 400 ft-lbs. Most of these places have seen numerous failed T56's, but not failed TKO's.

 

So going with the TKO would save me needing to replace my speedo and should give me all the gears I would ever need. Just need to figure out where the shifter will pop out and whether the money I could save isn't worth the risk of buying a used/potentially abused T56.

[Guest 73LT1Z]

I just bought a TKO600 for use in my next swap (Gen 3 V8 into Supra) for $1900 shipped from Swarr Performance in PA. Seemed like the best deal of those I saw. This includes the speedo drives (electronic/manual, although mine came w/o the cable drive), rear shifter base, and output yoke.

 

I picked up an 11" clutch bellhousing on Ebay from a mid 80s Chevy truck that has the bracket for an external slave cyl. Tranny arrived today & the bellhousing bolts on OK, and it will also bolt to a Gen 3 V8 with the exception of one bolt hole (upper pass side I think). There is an issue about the Gen 3 having a .400" recessed crank hub, but there is a GM pilot bearing to overcome this difference. I also have to assemble all this stuff & see how thick a throw out bearing I need.

 

I would have used a T56 as in the 280Z, but it is too wide in the rear to clear the tunnel.

 

Lots of shifter location options on the TKO, but they are added cost if you deviate from the stock rear mount (shouldn't need to do this on a Z, but I'm not sure how the JCI kit mounts the motor).

 

Having heaved both, my back tells me the TKO is a lot lighter than a T56 .

 

Hope this helped.

[fastzcars]

Maybe you can use this bellhousing? With a Mcloud hydrolic throwout bearing.http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=LAK%2D15005&N=4294925134+4294822099+4294908395+4294908216+115&autoview=sku

[Pop N Wood]

Wow. Funny this old thread should pop up. I was going to order my trans today.

 

A few updates. I found that Lakewood bellhousing but thanks for the link. Probably the safe way to go. I also found this unit from Keisler engineering

 

http://www.keislerauto.com/gm/transmissions/bellhousing.asp

 

At $200 including bolts it is probably a little more than your ebay unit, but still not bad. Kiesler quoted me $1800 for the TKO, including the Hurst billet shifter but no output yoke. They also have a $300 hydraulic TOB that they say will work with a stock clutch. Don't want to go through what Mike Kelly did trying to mount an external slave.

 

I am probably going to go with an LS7 clutch (which requires an LS2 flywheel), but didn't realize there would be an issue with the pilot bearing. I will ask Keisler when I order, but let me know what you find out. I know some guy on LS1tech.com posted a picture of a Fortes pilot bearing unit.

 

As for the shifter, even in the farthest back position it looks like the TKO will be maybe 3 1/2 inches shorter than a T56. Qwick240 sent me pics of his shifter location with a T56 and JCI mounts

 

http://album.hybridz.org/data/500/medium/LS1_240Z_at_shop_012.jpg

 

Not too promising. So I decided to copy Mark's mounts, which Marks says works with the JTR headers and puts the T56 at the very back of the stock hole

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=105868

 

I am hoping this gives me enough room to make the TKO work without bringing up other mounting problems.

[Guest 73LT1Z]

Good info on the bellhousing, but I wanted to run the external slave.

 

I am hoping this gives me enough room to make the TKO work without bringing up other mounting problems.

 

Other mounting problems?

 

It seems like these engine swaps are like the old games where you slide one tile at a time & try to line them up. I.E. you buy three set of manifolds for your setup & none work with your motor mounts. Two don't clear the frame rails. You then relocate your motor mounts & the left one hits the steering box...

 

I still don't know where the shifter will end up on the V8 Supra, the best info I have at this point is a guy on a Supra board installed a TKO behind his Supra motor, and he said it fit very well.

[Pop N Wood]

I have no idea if I will have any mounting problems. Was reading through some old old old threads by some of the original LS pioneers and they were hashing through so many issues. Like you said, move one tile and have to reposition 3 others. Mark says his set up worked fine, but he had a dry sump and fuel injection and God knows many other differences. Maybe I am just getting paranoid before spending $10K.

 

Only way I will know for sure is to get hardware in my garage and start measuring.

 

Here is a thread Mike Kelly started about hydraulics. But he and Pete are using first gen engines. Sort of convinced me to go with a known solution, or at least one I can send back to the company who told me it would work.

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=108176

[Guest Gr8White]

I don't know about the TKO 600, and nobody has really mentioned drivability issues between the T56 vs. TKO, but several years back I purchased a 5 speed TKO for my 5 liter Mustang, which had decided to eat the output shaft of my standard Tremec @ 500 +- RWHP. I was not happy at all with the TKO, maily because it was absolutely impossible to speed or powershift with. It was extremely notchy and frustrating as hell to race with. I was no 5 speed novice either, and had been racing since I bought the car new in 1988. After going through a Ram 600 clutch trying to get the #$% thing to shift right, I gave up and sold the whole setup.

 

I was told later by several friends who had suffered through this as well that TKO's had a long break in period and after about 2-3K miles they start shifting nicely. I had 1K on my setup.....How do the TKO 600's do out of the box? Has anyone else experienced this and an unusually long "break in" on the TKO's?? Just wondering since I am undecided on trannies again for my 78Z....Decisions decisions, just want to make the right one this time!!!

[Pop N Wood]

Good question about the shifting. Have been wondering myself. Here is a link that talks about the issue

 

http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/tremec.htm

 

Also says the TKO's were redesigned in 2004 with stronger steel and completely redesigned shifter and shift forks.