millsan1 Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 This is my first post to the forums. I have been looking around, researching a turbo conversion for my 78 Black Pearl. It seems the majority of people go with an 83 ZX turbo, from a parts car, for their conversion. But then, if you want real power, items start to get replaced, such as the turbo itself, then the ECU, etc. I anticipate that I will end up with an aftermarket turbo, and programmable ECU (MEgaTune?), does it make more sense just to buy an exhaust manifold, and the standard sensors, etc, then buy the aftermarket turbo and ECU? I just think it is more logical, rather than buying a whole donor car, and using 5 to 10 pieces of it. As a side question, does anyone know of an aftermarket turbo kit that you bolt on to an exisitng engine? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 check the classifieds section. There is a turbo kit for a first gen Z on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleachZee Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I just think it is more logical' date=' rather than buying a whole donor car, and using 5 to 10 pieces of it.[/quote'] You use the entire block and head from the turbo car so you're counting that as 2 of those 10 pieces, right? The turbo and non turbo engines are not the same. After that is in, then yes you only need the block, head, and exhaust manifold. Go with an early non-emissions intake manifold, direct ignition (no distributor), no AFM due to your fuel management, and big throat throttle body port matched to the intake manifold. Aftermarket: fuel rail, FPR, injectors, intake pipe, intercooler, wiring, ECU, fuel pump, turbo, oil cooler, oil cooler adaptor (summit racing), oil feel line, probably water cooled turbo? so you're running a custom water line too. Your sensors for the aftermarket ECU can be tapped into the existing vacuum ports or other ports can be drilled. Don't forget that you'll want a T5 from a turbo car to handle the power or swap to a Z32 transmission with the custom bellhousing. Research that, I'm not going to get into that swap on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I personally would go whichever path presented itself first. In other words, if a donor car shows up for cheap, buy it, but if you come across a turbo header/turbo/etc first then go that route. I don't see a problem at all using the NA motor from a theoretical standpoint. It is nice if you want the car up and running quickly to have all the pieces. With the NA you have to mess with oil supply line/oil return line just as one example, that kind of little stuff just seems to drag on and on. My priorities are mainly driven by lowest cost and quickest time to hit the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleachZee Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 oil return is just a small pipe welded to the oil pan... no harder than installing a BOV. Oil supply is just a T screwed in between the block and oil pressure sending unit. right?? I was thinking more along the lines of the pistons and rings being different and in the head its just the shape of the exhaust ports that is different. However, you could rebuild an NA F54 block with dished pistons and turbo rings. Then buy a P90 head anywhere and have it mailed to you. Buy a generic T from most any turbo fittings supplier (ATPturbo.com) anyway... so ya it is possible to piece it together with very few original parts. Going aftermarket will cost you thousands in the end but you'll have a 400hp engine. for my swap, I'm under $1000 total and maybe 240hp but I'm running almost all stock turbo parts... still working on it though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Sure, the oil drain and supply are small, but I just wanted to list one example, there are several small things like that and kind of like the nickel and dime issue they take some time to finish. Not a big deal for most people. The piston and rings are the same(as far as ring land thickness), I have seen that myth dispelled with side by side comparisons of the two, maybe that was a comparison between the 280z and 280zxt(not 280zx piston). Compression would be another issue. In the end I think you will be just as happy with a NA turbo vs the stock turbo. Several people have built them and I have not seen anyone that I remember off hand complain about their NA setup, but maybe some will chime in if that is the case. I think Bleachzee is saying it is easier and cheaper 90% of the time to find a 280zxt engine and swap it in. If so, I agree with that. But that depends on what parts you come across first and what your goal for the car is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsan1 Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 Thanks for the input. I am leaning heavily towards a system that Steve at Top End Performance has recomended. Basically, it is a rebuilt 83 Long Block, my choice of engine management systems (leaning towards the TEC3R), T3/T4, 550 Injectors, other goodies. The price is a bit high, but I think it better to go with aftermarket goods, engineered with performance in mind, rather than 20 year old OEM bits, manufactured with economy in mind. My goal is nothign crazy, just 300 to 325 RWHP, 300ish RWT. I want a system that lets me run it when I want, but still last a long time. I plan on sinking a decent amoutn of effort and money into this little project, so getting the best of breed, within dollar constraints, is my goal. I am basically doing a resto-mod of my 78. I knwo I am gonna sink more into it then I could ever get out, but my plan does not entail the getting money out part. I hope to keep this ride for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsan1 Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 I just finished reading a treatise on turbos. The book was well written, and very informative. After reading this book, I have come to the conclusion that the stock manifold is just plain horrible for maximum performance. The turbo is in the wrong place, and the manifold itself looks to flow very poorly. I understand that there are other reasons why the manifold is the way it is, but it is still a bad turbo manifold. This just reenforces my desire to go aftermarket and custom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennysgreen280zt Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 300whp isnt a big deal with the stock manifold. I will chime in for complaining about the NA-T setup. While I know it was my own fault for the failure, I did crack 4 ringlands on the stock (75) NA pistons. It was a great combo of too much timing, not enough fuel and too much boost all at once. If it was me, my 300hp L plan would be as follows. Stock turbo bottom end reringed and new bearings. 2mm Metal headgastket, ARP studs, N42 or P90, whichever you find. 440cc injectors, and megasquirt. Turbo would be a smaller T3/4 w/ 3" down pipe, and a decent Ebay intercooler. Thats maybe, on the high end $2k that your going to spend and it will barf out 300whp all day long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsan1 Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 This http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/2116000-2116999/2116389_2_full.jpg is what I am talking about, as far as a good manifold goes. It is far from perfect, but alot better than the stock one. I know I can get my expectations out of a lot of stock parts, but knowing that the parts are not the best they could be will bother me. Plus, this is my toy, and I want my toy to be the shiniest one on the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 This http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/2116000-2116999/2116389_2_full.jpg is what I am talking about' date=' as far as a good manifold goes. It is far from perfect, but alot better than the stock one. I know I can get my expectations out of a lot of stock parts, but knowing that the parts are not the best they could be will bother me. Plus, this is my toy, and I want my toy to be the shiniest one on the block.[/quote'] It would bother me much, much more to put out the money and effort for a lot of trick parts, and only have 300ish rwhp to show for it. I managed to put down 430rwhp on 94 octane pump gas with one of those "horrible" manifolds (slightly ported and modded for a T4 and a large external wastegate). BTW, the stock manifold does have a couple of big advantages - packaging and heat management. The point that I'm alluding to is that if ~300rwhp is your goal, it would make much more sense to get the trick parts that will make it more driveable - the expensive kewl-looking manifold will not get you there - it won't really start helping until ~400rwhp (assuming it works as good as it looks). A well tuned aftermarket EFI , properly sized turbo and fuel delivery system, decent suspension and brakes will be a much better place to spend your money. Also, I cant believe that this went for 6 days without anybody noticing the "Steve at TEP" reference. Do some searces before spending any money there. All the oldtimers must still be on vacation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennysgreen280zt Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Also, I cant believe that this went for 6 days without anybody noticing the "Steve at TEP" reference. Do some searces before spending any money there. All the oldtimers must still be on vacation... I saw that.... maybe everyone has just blocked it out of thier head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsan1 Posted July 8, 2006 Author Share Posted July 8, 2006 I am spending money on Arizona Z Suspension and Brakes. I am one of those idiots who cares more about how it could work, and how well it is designed, rather than what you can coax out of it. I know there are plenty of people who make mad horses out of the stock manifold. I just knwo it is not as good as it could be, so it bothers me. That being said, I will probably end up with a stock one anyway, as I can not find a manifold less than $900 or so, and that is a bunch of change. The car is going in for paint and body work next week, the Arizona components are coming in a week or two. I am redoing the whole interior, carpets, gonna cover the plastic bits in vinyl, doing soud deadening every little place I can, blah blah blah. This is gonna keep me busy for a couple weeks. What is wrong with TEP? Should I search for anything in particular? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 What is wrong with TEP? Should I search for anything in particular? Here's a few to get you started: ...okay that link didn't work - just do a search with "Steve" and "TEP" and see what you find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 I'm sorry for getting to this post so late. Millsan1, your very close to me and I have done just about everything you are talking about to my 71. You can stop by anytime and see if my car meets your expectations for power. And I agree with everyone here. Stock exhaust manifold is fine. There are many other areas that will need your money. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsan1 Posted July 18, 2006 Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 Rags, I will take you up on your offer. Would love to talk to a fellow Z'er. I just bought an 82 280ZX Turbo parts car, wo I will eb going to get that shortly, and will be stripping it of anything useful. I am sticking with the stock manifold at this point. Thanks for the input guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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