Guest Mike Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I have a Art Carr built 200-4R in my 1981 280ZX. The only thing I don't like about the gearbox is the fact that it shifts about 400 RPM lower as the gears shift up (2nd at 5200' date=' 3rd at 4800 & 4th at 4400).I am not sure if this is always the case. I just manual overide when doing a 1/4 mile (14.4s) 3500lb car with 250hp crate motor.[/quote'] Hi ferreido, Thanks for the info. Are you sure your car weighs 3500 pounds? I think the stock 280ZX weighed about 2800 pounds... I'm pretty sure that's about right anyway. The V8 shouldn't add any more than 200 pounds for a total of 3000 pounds. Is it possible that supplying the tranny builder with vehicle weight that's off 500 pounds could affect shift points? I don't know:confused: About manual shifting... which shifter are you using? Is manual shifting easy and sure? I need to replace mine... or upgrade the existing one. I'm not sure I care about a "full ratcheting" type, but I do want easy/sure manual shifting and reverse lockout. Gear indicator lamps would be nice. The current shifter has none of these and it only downshifts to 2nd with a 3-speed tranny:icon50: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeshoe Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Another bit of info on the 200-4R. The "good" valve bodies that control shifting are from the performance cars. Buick GN's, Monte Carlo SS's, Hurst Olds, Pontiac TTA. These valve bodies result in better shift points than the generic valve bodies. Some of the generics are better than others. According to Chris at CKperformance the Cadillac AA code VB is a good one to use. The rare performance VB's alone go for $250-400. BRF is the 86-87 GN part. BQ is the 84-85 GN vb. I think a good 200-4R can be built without the pricey VB's but very high rpm auto WOT shifting will be difficult to obtain. Most people manually shift anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 The shift points in a 200-4R is primarily controlled by the shift governor. You need a GN governor or have mods made to the VB. A full manual reverse-pattern VB with a Pro-Ratchet shifter is the bomb and I really enjoy driving around town with it. Had that setup in the 200-4R and now the Th400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeshoe Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 The shift points in a 200-4R is primarily controlled by the shift governor. You need a GN governor or have mods made to the VB. A full manual reverse-pattern VB with a Pro-Ratchet shifter is the bomb and I really enjoy driving around town with it. Had that setup in the 200-4R and now the Th400. The governor is just one piece of the puzzle. It is the road speed sensing device that affects shift points, however it does not control the shift points, the valve body controls shift points using input from the TV and governor. A generic valve body with a Grand National calibrated governor will not upshift out of low gear until well over 6500 rpm if ever. The complaint of varying rpm at the shift points betwen certain gears is a valve body issue. Changing the governor will move these points up or down, but not equalize them. If it shifts from 1-2 at 4800 rpm, then 2-3 at 4400 rpm, 3-4th at 4000 rpm, then you would have to increase the tension of the 2-3 shift valve spring to increase the rpm that shift occurs, and the 3-4 shift valve spring to increase that shift rpm. Unfortunately, the governor is not the answer here and while some mods can be done to increase WOT shift points, if you get too aggressive with these mods, the part throttle calibration gets weird requiring ALOT of trial and error valve body work to get it working right. ATF showers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Another bit of info on the 200-4R.The "good" valve bodies that control shifting are from the performance cars. Buick GN's' date=' Monte Carlo SS's, Hurst Olds, Pontiac TTA. These valve bodies result in better shift points than the generic valve bodies. Some of the generics are better than others. According to Chris at CKperformance the Cadillac AA code VB is a good one to use. The rare performance VB's alone go for $250-400. BRF is the 86-87 GN part. BQ is the 84-85 GN vb. I think a good 200-4R can be built without the pricey VB's but very high rpm auto WOT shifting will be difficult to obtain. Most people manually shift anyway...[/quote'] Thanks jakeshoe. I be sure to tell my builder to look for those valve bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 The shift points in a 200-4R is primarily controlled by the shift governor. You need a GN governor or have mods made to the VB. A full manual reverse-pattern VB with a Pro-Ratchet shifter is the bomb and I really enjoy driving around town with it. Had that setup in the 200-4R and now the Th400. That sounds like a very good way to set this up. I tend to shift manually with this car anyway. The cam is a bit more radical than I've had in the past and it just operates more smoothly when I can choose shift points. Plus... trial-and-error calibration of shift points becomes a non-issue. What brand manual reverse pattern valve body do you recommend? Please consider performance, reliability... and price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 What brand manual reverse pattern valve body do you recommend? Please consider performance, reliability... and price. TCI, which is also rebranded and sold by B&M. Best price is through Jegs or Summit. With the manual VB you do not need the dual-purpose type shifter and I just have a preference for the Pro-Ratchet. Best buy on the shifter is new on eBay or if you are patient, a used one if all the parts are there. Most aftermarket shifters have big bulky covers that just do not look right in the Z and requires you to cut up the console. If the tranny is out of the car, take the extra time and effort to try to install the shifter assembly from the bottom up. It will require you to make the hole in the tunnel bigger but the end result is that only part of the cover needs to come up through the tunnel. I did not do that with the Z but did it with the RX7 and while a bit of work, worth it in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Just for reference, the TCI Full Manual Valve Body (reverse pattern), part #386010, is available from Summit for about $50 cheaper than from Jegs. For some reason, when Jegs & TCI both raised their price, about 2 months ago, Summit did not. I do know that the part was on Back Order when the prices changed elsewhere, so perhaps Summit will raise the price also when their current supply is exhausted and they have to order more. I'm in the process of putting a 200-4R from a "built" 87 Regal T-Type, in my 82 ZX, behind the L28ET stroker. Final prototype of the bellhousing adapter was run last night. I'll be doing final fitting some time next week. Soon as it all fits and the car is running, additional adapters will be run and made available for sale. I'm also using the B&M Quicksilver ratchet shifter and mounting it low as Scottie just stated, as if you don't mount it low, meaning below the stock height, the shift knob will be WAY too high to look right. For Mike: I'm using the Quicksilver shifter for the reasons you mentioned earlier...i.e. lighted shift indicator and positive shifting, and because it can be mounted IN the console, without the huge box or housing that the full ratchet shifters have. The Quicksilver will do both full ratchet (N to 1) and normal (N to D only) shifting. Pics will be coming soon. P.S. I didn't mean to hi-jack the thread, but thought mentioning the price savings would help someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 TCI, which is also rebranded and sold by B&M. Best price is through Jegs or Summit. With the manual VB you do not need the dual-purpose type shifter and I just have a preference for the Pro-Ratchet. Best buy on the shifter is new on eBay or if you are patient, a used one if all the parts are there. Most aftermarket shifters have big bulky covers that just do not look right in the Z and requires you to cut up the console. If the tranny is out of the car, take the extra time and effort to try to install the shifter assembly from the bottom up. It will require you to make the hole in the tunnel bigger but the end result is that only part of the cover needs to come up through the tunnel. I did not do that with the Z but did it with the RX7 and while a bit of work, worth it in the end. Thanks Scottie-GNZ... I'll check out TCI and B&M. This is the second vote I've seen for the Pro-Ratchet shifter. I think this one has the lever though, right? Is there a really good reverse lockout shifter with reverse-pattern P-R-N-1-2-3-4 that uses stock GM knobs? I want to use a polished SS ball knob. I will likely want a trans-brake switch too. I agree that under tunnel istallation is the way to go. I'm hoping this upgrade will be fairly easy since the current shifter is already mounted under the tunnel. I don't know how large this one is so some mods may be in order. Has anyone used the shifter conversion kits... the ones that convert older 3-speed shifters into 4-speed? Does anyone make good 3-4 adapter kit with the features I want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Just for reference' date=' the TCI Full Manual Valve Body (reverse pattern), part #386010, is available from Summit for about $50 cheaper than from Jegs. For some reason, when Jegs & TCI both raised their price, about 2 months ago, Summit did not. I do know that the part was on Back Order when the prices changed elsewhere, so perhaps Summit will raise the price also when their current supply is exhausted and they have to order more. I'm in the process of putting a 200-4R from a "built" 87 Regal T-Type, in my 82 ZX, behind the L28ET stroker. Final prototype of the bellhousing adapter was run last night. I'll be doing final fitting some time next week. Soon as it all fits and the car is running, additional adapters will be run and made available for sale. I'm also using the B&M Quicksilver ratchet shifter and mounting it low as Scottie just stated, as if you don't mount it low, meaning below the stock height, the shift knob will be WAY too high to look right. For Mike: I'm using the Quicksilver shifter for the reasons you mentioned earlier...i.e. lighted shift indicator and positive shifting, and because it can be mounted IN the console, without the huge box or housing that the full ratchet shifters have. The Quicksilver will do both full ratchet (N to 1) and normal (N to D only) shifting. Pics will be coming soon. P.S. I didn't mean to hi-jack the thread, but thought mentioning the price savings would help someone.[/quote'] You didn't hi-jack my thread, Warren:icon31: People will appreciate the extra $50 saved. Many folks will be needing your adapters too:grin: The current old-style 3-speed shifter is probably very small, though I haven't yet looked at it. It's very old and has no reverse lock-out and no ratcheting, plus it only downshifts to 2nd gear. It doesn't even prevent accidental bumping out of park!! I let a mechanic drive the car the other day and I didn't warn him about the shifter. He accidentally shifted into reverse at about 30MPH:eek2: I wish he'd broken the thing so I could have received some $$$ for the tranny swap;-) The ratchet pattern on the Quicksilver suits me just fine. Are you saying he Quicksilver will mount under the tunnel without having to enlarge it? I'll look this one up. I hope it uses stock GM knobs... I want to use a polished SS ball knob to mimic the orginal Ferrari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Mike, I'm not saying that the shifter will mount under the tunnel without having to enlarge it. I'm going to end up having to modify the tunnel slightly by installing a "bucket" or "recessed mounting box" to mount it low enough unless I do a custom console. Having a sheetmetal brake and a welder will make this an easy task for me, but it's gonna take a little modification of the tunnel to make it sit low enough for the way I want it. See, I don't want to use the big black plastic box around the shifter unit itself and want to mount the chromed top plate at the same level as the stock shift indicator plate. This might take a little creativity to get it to "just the right spot", but I'm willing to go that far to avoid it looking like it didn't originally come that way. The Camaro/Firebird version of the quicksilver (part #BMM-80688) actually uses an additional mounting plate, which would make it even taller than the standard one (part# BMM-80683) that I'm using, based on photos of the C/F one on Summit's site. The chrome top plate for that one is the wrong shape anyway. Doing a little research and comparing the parts online, I've noticed that the Quicksilver and the Pro-Ratchet shifter (part# BMM-80842) use the same actual shift handle lever (part# BMM-80586), so although the Pro-Ratchet shifter comes with the little aluminum box mounted around it, it would still be the same height if the tranny tunnel wasn't modified somehow. About the knob, the Quicksilver comes standard with a chromed (plastic) ball knob with a "Quick Silver" logo insert. The shifter itself, in it's shipped form, doesn't come with any adapters to allow the "stock GM knobs" to be used, but I've seen the adapters all over the place should the threads be wrong. I have a line lock installed on my car and have the white ball knob with the red button on top (part# BMM-46112) installed on my shifter, which works well for me because my car is white too. B&M does make an aluminum knob for the shifters, so if polished SS can't be found, the aluminum one can surely be polished, easily. Sorry to babble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Mike' date=' I'm not saying that the shifter will mount under the tunnel without having to enlarge it. I'm going to end up having to modify the tunnel slightly by installing a "bucket" or "recessed mounting box" to mount it low enough unless I do a custom console. Having a sheetmetal brake and a welder will make this an easy task for me, but it's gonna take a little modification of the tunnel to make it sit low enough for the way I want it. See, I don't want to use the big black plastic box around the shifter unit itself and want to mount the chromed top plate at the same level as the stock shift indicator plate. This might take a little creativity to get it to "just the right spot", but I'm willing to go that far to avoid it looking like it didn't originally come that way. The Camaro/Firebird version of the quicksilver (part #BMM-80688) actually uses an additional mounting plate, which would make it even taller than the standard one (part# BMM-80683) that I'm using, based on photos of the C/F one on Summit's site. The chrome top plate for that one is the wrong shape anyway. Doing a little research and comparing the parts online, I've noticed that the Quicksilver and the Pro-Ratchet shifter (part# BMM-80842) use the same actual shift handle lever (part# BMM-80586), so although the Pro-Ratchet shifter comes with the little aluminum box mounted around it, it would still be the same height if the tranny tunnel wasn't modified somehow. About the knob, the Quicksilver comes standard with a chromed (plastic) ball knob with a "Quick Silver" logo insert. The shifter itself, in it's shipped form, doesn't come with any adapters to allow the "stock GM knobs" to be used, but I've seen the adapters all over the place should the threads be wrong. I have a line lock installed on my car and have the white ball knob with the red button on top (part# BMM-46112) installed on my shifter, which works well for me because my car is white too. B&M does make an aluminum knob for the shifters, so if polished SS can't be found, the aluminum one can surely be polished, easily. Sorry to babble.[/quote'] Thanks for all the info, Warren. Regarding under tunnel mounting without having to mod the thing... since there's an older shifter already mounted that way in this car, I figured I could find a more suitable shifter to fit the same space. Maybe not? An unpolished aluminum ball knob is fine... close enough anyway. I just wanted to vaguely simulate the original look just a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spdsk8r Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I used a shifter from a 94 Camaro (mounted low) without modifying the tunnel hole. The Camaro shifter also incorperates neutral safety and backup light switches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I used a shifter from a 94 Camaro (mounted low) without modifying the tunnel hole. The Camaro shifter also incorperates neutral safety and backup light switches. Looks good, spdsk8r. With a stock GM shifter, I can use the aftermarket polisihed SS knob that I want:smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Question is, is that shifter capable of "ratchet" shifting? Reason for asking is that I'm using a manual valve body and will be shifting every gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Question is, is that shifter capable of "ratchet" shifting? Reason for asking is that I'm using a manual valve body and will be shifting every gear. I'm new to full ratchet shifting. If I have a reverse valve body, is a full ratcheting shifter that important... as long as the detents are sure and firm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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