thehelix112 Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Yikes. Those anocedotes make me scared. Lincoln motorsports welding school sounds like it might be a good investment for anyone interested in welding cages. Here is the link I believe: http://www.lincolnelectric.com/focus/motorsports/school/school.asp Worth the money do you think? Did you do the beginner or advanced course john? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 I was at the Lincoln Electric welding school for 6 months taking TIG, MIG, Alloy, Hardfacing, Oxy, Cutting, Pipe, and both Motorsports classes. The cost of the school is pretty cheap considering you're in class from 8am to 4pm and only the first hour is classroom instruction. I also stayed another few days and worked with Bill West on their motorsports 4130 tube welding certification (which never really came to fruition). I (along with a couple other guys) welded about 350 1.5" 4130 tube joints and then pulled each one apart to test the yield strength of the weldment. Learned a lot from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 I can only imagine. I know I really should ask them this, but would you recommend taking the TIG/MIG courses as a pre-requisite for the motorsports classes? This is sounding like a worthwhile investment. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Sorry to bring this thread back, but I was thinking the other day that not many people get that sort of opportunity of testing 350 welds to destruction before building a cage. I was wondering if you had any details/advice on what welds you found to be the strongest. Anything, inches per second, feed rate, welder settings, etc etc. Thanks in advance, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Most welding mistakes are the result of: 1. Poor preparation and fitment. 2. Not enough heat - poor penetration. Make sure the tube joints are very tight, no gaps greater then the thickness of the filler wire. Mechanically and chemically clean the welded areas. Cut, fit, clean and test weld a few scraps. When in doubt, turn up the heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 DO NOT USE 0.125" IT WILL FAIL TECH! Manufacuture hit the low side of tollerance to save $$$ so a .125 will measure .121 or so. Bending that will make it under .118 and you will fail. Use .134". Also must tie into subframe that connect to the rear frame (make one). Props to boodlefoof! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 John, Thanks mate. Much obliged. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rayjay Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Justin, At the typical NHRA dragstrip the tech guys won't even hardly look at your cage unless you are running 10 sec quarters or better. What I am saying is that you are worrying alot about something that probably won't be an issue [ chassis certification ]. They will want you to have a driveshaft safety loop and other drag race oriented safety related items. You are making the right choice on the cage. Mig welded DOM is the way to go for a cage being built in a car. I don't know how you would get access to many of the joints with a tig torch. I often used a mirror to be able to see how to weld some of the joints. JohnC, how do you manage the joints at the top of the cage where the roof hoop attaches to the main hoop ? Once I had the main hoop fitted I would tack it at the front and one tack on the inside [ on the plate welded to the floor ]. Then when I had the roof hoop fitted I would tack it to the main hoop in a few spots and then cut the tack weld on the inside of the main hoop and allow the roof hoop / main hoop to rotate forward and down in the front to gain access to the top part of the joint. Once I had the top of the joint welded I would rotate the structure back into position [ pivoting on the remaining tack weld at the floor ] and retack the inside of the main hoop to the plate. To support the roof hoop I built an adjustable fixture than I wedged between the front section of the roof hoop and the floor pan. ------------------------------------------------------------ Brief bio since this is my first post: Back in the early 90's I ran a one-man fab shop specializing in race car fab mostly oriented towards SCCA IT, Pro Rally and Prod, mini stock paved oval cars and drag cars. In 93 or 94 every class champ in the Atl Region Pro IT series had cages or other fab work done by me This was in Lawrenceville GA and I did quite a few Z cars so there may be some people on this site from the southeast that would be familiar with my work. This was before the advent of affordable digital camera's so most of the pics I have would have to be scanned. I do have some pics of a midget chassis I built for myself that due to medical reasons was never finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 JohnC, how do you manage the joints at the top of the cage where the roof hoop attaches to the main hoop ? I do variations on what you listed. I also cut the roof off a 240Z for one cage and then welded it back on after I was done. Few customers want to see you doing something like that, even though its the best way to get everything tight. On the last couple cars I've done I was able to (after tacking the cage together inside the car) cut holes in the floor and let the cage drop about 4". I then welded the tops, pushed the cage back up, slipped in the floor plates, welded the plates in, welded backing plates on the underside covering the holes, and then finished welding the cage. FYI... TIG welding a cage inside a car required LOTS of cussing, throwing things, and general grumpiness. Most of my customers prefer a MIG welded cage for cost reasons - and most likely not having to listen to my complaints BTW... Nice bio and I like the Midget chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oatmilk Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 for my friend Mike Kojima. It's for his time attack car... I'm man enough to admit it, I'm a internet link whore http://www.nittotire.com/blog_detail.asp?id=7 http://www.nittotire.com/blog_detail.asp?id=8 http://www.nittotire.com/blog_detail.asp?id=9 http://www.nittotire.com/blog_detail.asp?id=10 John C, The bonus check is hopefully coming around the corner. I'll call about possibly scheduling a visit for the 2jz 240z. I'd like to at minimum get the drivetrain in. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rayjay Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I did some things a bit differently from the guy in oatey's link. By using my method of tilting the main hoop / roof hoop structure forward to weld the top of the joint I don't have to cut holes in the floor. Where the front legs were attached to the floor plate I used a similar floor plate but without the box to raise the leg. By having the leg sit right at floor level I was able to put the first couple of vertical inches of the leg in contact with the plate welded to the vertical section of the rocker box. Then when I finish welded the front leg to the floor plates I could weld the tube to the horizontal plate on the floor pan and to the vertical plated welded to the rocker. I also formed the vertical plate over at least an inch on the top surface of the rocker box. For welding the floor plates to the car I always used .023 wire. I then put .030 in the welder for welding the tubes together. Justin, what kind of SCCA competition are you planning on competeing in ? Some of the additional NHRA required bars may make the cage illegal for certain SCCA classes. rj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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