Guest Mike Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 CAMhttp://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=119661&lvl=2&prt=5 LIFTERS http://www.crower.com/misc/m_cat.shtml (pg 120) HEADS http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&catalogIdentifier=Jegs_Direct&categoryId=78237&parentCategoryId=10187 Aluminum Cylinder Heads 200cc Intake ports 64cc Combustion Chambers 1.470'' Dual Valve Springs (125 lbs. Closed / 325 lbs. Open) .575'' Max lift 2.02''/1.60'' Valves Straight Plug Assembled 158-1021001 These cylinder heads are recommended for Pro Street applications with a 355-406 cid. engine operating from idle-6500 RPM with a flat tappet or hydraulic roller cam. Features: 200cc Intake Port 64cc Combustion Chambers 1.470'' Dual Valve Springs (125 lbs. Closed / 325 lbs. Open) .575'' Max lift 2.02''/1.60'' Valves Straight Plug 3/8'' Rocker Studs 5/16'' Guideplates rotating assemblys http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ESP%2DB12011030&N=700+115&autoview=sku http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&catalogIdentifier=Jegs_Direct&categoryId=19411&parentCategoryId=10759 I don't mean to stall' date=' Grumpy. I just need a little time to get my "bearings":willy_nil I'll think on it, add up all the other "must do" expenses for this car, and let you know tonight. Fair enough? [b']Does anyone have a spare $8K they want to throw at a "good cause"???[/b] Hey ADMIN GUYS... maybe hybridz could host a lottery for Z-Car upgrades... five bucks per ticket.. when it reaches $5K or whatever you draw for the lucky winner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 YOUR not stalling but youve got the same problem most of us have, LACK of FREELY DISPOSABLE INCOME, IM well aware of the problem, Ive been collecting parts for my bbc install for FOUR YEARS simply because other things like food and a morgage, a $150,000 garage project, ETC. If I had chosen to install a comon 450 hp 454 I could have done it 4 years ago, but Ive always felt that, if your going to do something, you may as well wait and do it exceptional well, so your satisfied with the results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeshoe Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 So... Competition can't "compete"?? That's irony for ya':lol: Mike, The problem seems to be isolated to the Endure-X lifters. I've heard good things and have a few acquaintances who have run the "Super Roller" line without any issues that I know of. Obviously there are some people who can tear up an anvlil with a ruber mallet, but the frequency of the failures is pretty suspect IMO. They have updated the design in the last couple of years but my understanding from other machinists who have milled the lifteds down to see how the oiling works, is that they do not oil the pin as the two I suggested do. That said, I absolutely agree with Grumpy on you avoiding a solid roller for your combo. It just isn't worth the expense or trouble. My personal Z project has a solid flat tappet cam in a 400 based SBC with Trick Flow heads, 11.25- compression, Air Gap style intake, etc. My combo will see ~7000 rpm shifts. You just really don't need the additonal 30-40 HP you MIGHT gain from a solid roller over the solid flat tappet in a package weighing less than 3000 lbs. A stout 383 combo like Grumpy is suggesting would easily run 10's in the 1/4 mile in a Z car if it would hookup. I helped with a 383 combo in a full weight 75 Camaro. Very basic combo, 383 with flattop pistons, Comp 292H hydro flat cam, AFR 195 heads, Victor Jr Intake, 750 holley, Hooker Super Comp 1.75 headers. That combo, keep in mind thats a hydraulic cam, not even the latest tech stuff, would run 6.90s in the 1/8th mile with a 150 shot of N2O. That's a 3700 lb car. Deduct 1000 lbs of weight, and according to the 100 lbs lighter= .1 second 1/4 mile ET improvement, that's a very fast Z car... A rough estimate of ET for 1/8th to 1/4 mile is( 1/8 mile ET x 1.56 = 1/4 mile ET) You could even run the 355 and it would be quick. The key to making an engine work well is usually the heads, spend your money here. AFR has their new line coming out, the Eliminator series and they are touting some very impressive numbers, independant flow tests and dyno results. I'm not a huge fan of hydraulic rollers. However your combo would work fine with a hydraulic roller. IMO there is a narrow range of benefit to using the hyd roller cam. A bit of tech for you, and some disagree with this but you can do some research and verify it. A flat tappet cam has a faster initial opening rate than a roller. This happens because the flat cams ramp can traverse to the edge of the lifter and then begin to lift the lifter. It can stay right on the edge but not past (otherwise the lifter will "dig" into the cam lobe). All the new lobe designs like the Comp "Xtreme" line are designed to push the envelope and accelerate the lifter as fast as possible. They are able to do this now because of better equipment and technology. However I think it is part of the reason we are seeing more cam failures on flat tappet apps. A larger diameter lifter can be accelerated faster.. However a roller lifter's initial rate of acceleration must be slower or the cam lobe will try to push the lifter sideways in it's bore. The roller cam however will surpass the velocity of the flat tappet (and by a far amount in the right application). So in most cases the reason to run the roller is for more "area under the curve". This means the valve will open faster, lift higher, and stay open longer before quickly closing. What this all comes down to in practical application is that on a mild street motor the flat tappet cam may actually outperform the roller because it has better low lift valve actuation. My opinion based on looking at many cam lobe profiles is that the roller doesn't really gain any advantage until your cam duration gets to the 230-235*@.050 range. If you look at a hyd flat tappet and hyd roller profile in the 210-220 range, the roller will usually have a slightly longer seat duration for a given .050 duration, and the duration at .0200" lift (about half lift, the motor sees this lift twice, peak lift only once) and peak lift will not be remarkably improved if at all. However when you start to look at the 230'ish range, the seat and .050 duration becomes more similar and the .200 duration is bigger on the roller. A 383 combo with a hyd roller will need a cam in this range if not slightly bigger. But I think that a hydraulic flat tappet will work almost as well for you, probably vey little power gain for the additional expense. A solid flat tappet would also work well, and if you run quality roller rockers, pushrods, it will only need lashing every few months depending on driving style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jap tin Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Well, I just can't go along with the, kick Comp Cams, group here. I have used their cams and lifters for years with no problems.Keep a eye on your valve lash and spring pressure and you are not going to have a problem. I had them grind my last custom grind cam and it checked out perfect. Give them the lobe profile you want with the LSA and base circle and no problem. You need to make sure things are right when you are putting it together just not bolt it in and go. Check for spring bind, retainer to guide clearance, installed height, get the right length push rod, check for binding. Degree the cam in with accurate equipment, and double check everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeshoe Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 I haven't seen any issues with the custom ground cams from Comp, and their shelf grinds are usually relatively close (within tolerance of +/- 2*, which is acceptable) anytime I have ever had anything out of spec it has been no more than 3* and the 1* could easily be error on my part or equipment or slop in a timing chain. The custom grinds seem to hold a bit tighter tolerance though. I assume they are grinding these on machines doing them obviously one at time, where the shelf cams are being ground in lots of several dozen or hundred at a time, and the machine may not be perfectly reset between each cam. Wear on the grinding wheel, camshaft not true on machine centers, wear on the master lobe profile, etc. I'm not here to bash Comp Cams, I don't use their cams due to some very poor customer service I experienced but that doesn't necessarily mean their products are bad on the whole. I like their Pro-Magnum roller rockers and use some of their valvesprings. I can get an equivalent product at lesser cost and with MUCH better service. I also don't typically need much help selecting a profile so their tech lines are not of much use to me, although it is fun to pick a profile, do some research using other similar combos, Engine Analyzer, and then call Comp and see what kind of answer they come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Mike' date='The problem seems to be isolated to the Endure-X lifters. I've heard good things and have a few acquaintances who have run the "Super Roller" line without any issues that I know of. Obviously there are some people who can tear up an anvlil with a ruber mallet, but the frequency of the failures is pretty suspect IMO. They have updated the design in the last couple of years but my understanding from other machinists who have milled the lifteds down to see how the oiling works, is that they do not oil the pin as the two I suggested do. That said, I absolutely agree with Grumpy on you avoiding a solid roller for your combo. It just isn't worth the expense or trouble. My personal Z project has a solid flat tappet cam in a 400 based SBC with Trick Flow heads, 11.25- compression, Air Gap style intake, etc. My combo will see ~7000 rpm shifts. You just really don't need the additonal 30-40 HP you MIGHT gain from a solid roller over the solid flat tappet in a package weighing less than 3000 lbs. A stout 383 combo like Grumpy is suggesting would easily run 10's in the 1/4 mile in a Z car if it would hookup. I helped with a 383 combo in a full weight 75 Camaro. Very basic combo, 383 with flattop pistons, Comp 292H hydro flat cam, AFR 195 heads, Victor Jr Intake, 750 holley, Hooker Super Comp 1.75 headers. That combo, keep in mind thats a hydraulic cam, not even the latest tech stuff, would run 6.90s in the 1/8th mile with a 150 shot of N2O. That's a 3700 lb car. Deduct 1000 lbs of weight, and according to the 100 lbs lighter= .1 second 1/4 mile ET improvement, that's a very fast Z car... A rough estimate of ET for 1/8th to 1/4 mile is( 1/8 mile ET x 1.56 = 1/4 mile ET) You could even run the 355 and it would be quick. The key to making an engine work well is usually the heads, spend your money here. AFR has their new line coming out, the Eliminator series and they are touting some very impressive numbers, independant flow tests and dyno results. I'm not a huge fan of hydraulic rollers. However your combo would work fine with a hydraulic roller. IMO there is a narrow range of benefit to using the hyd roller cam. A bit of tech for you, and some disagree with this but you can do some research and verify it. A flat tappet cam has a faster initial opening rate than a roller. This happens because the flat cams ramp can traverse to the edge of the lifter and then begin to lift the lifter. It can stay right on the edge but not past (otherwise the lifter will "dig" into the cam lobe). All the new lobe designs like the Comp "Xtreme" line are designed to push the envelope and accelerate the lifter as fast as possible. They are able to do this now because of better equipment and technology. However I think it is part of the reason we are seeing more cam failures on flat tappet apps. A larger diameter lifter can be accelerated faster.. However a roller lifter's initial rate of acceleration must be slower or the cam lobe will try to push the lifter sideways in it's bore. The roller cam however will surpass the velocity of the flat tappet (and by a far amount in the right application). So in most cases the reason to run the roller is for more "area under the curve". This means the valve will open faster, lift higher, and stay open longer before quickly closing. What this all comes down to in practical application is that on a mild street motor the flat tappet cam may actually outperform the roller because it has better low lift valve actuation. My opinion based on looking at many cam lobe profiles is that the roller doesn't really gain any advantage until your cam duration gets to the 230-235*@.050 range. If you look at a hyd flat tappet and hyd roller profile in the 210-220 range, the roller will usually have a slightly longer seat duration for a given .050 duration, and the duration at .0200" lift (about half lift, the motor sees this lift twice, peak lift only once) and peak lift will not be remarkably improved if at all. However when you start to look at the 230'ish range, the seat and .050 duration becomes more similar and the .200 duration is bigger on the roller. A 383 combo with a hyd roller will need a cam in this range if not slightly bigger. But I think that a hydraulic flat tappet will work almost as well for you, probably vey little power gain for the additional expense. A solid flat tappet would also work well, and if you run quality roller rockers, pushrods, it will only need lashing every few months depending on driving style.[/quote'] Okay, now I "get it" And what a deal. A flat tappet hyd setup saves me money and performs better.. a win/win situation. GRUMPY, DOC, JAKESHOE... you've said this all along, but I was too dense to understand why. Now I understand. WOOHOO!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Well, I just can't go along with the, kick Comp Cams, group here. I have used their cams and lifters for years with no problems.Keep a eye on your valve lash and spring pressure and you are not going to have a problem. I had them grind my last custom grind cam and it checked out perfect. Give them the lobe profile you want with the LSA and base circle and no problem. You need to make sure things are right when you are putting it together just not bolt it in and go. Check for spring bind, retainer to guide clearance, installed height, get the right length push rod, check for binding. Degree the cam in with accurate equipment, and double check everything. Hi jap tin. Thanks for the Comp vote. How do you like their flat tappet hydraulics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 YOUR not stalling but youve got the same problem most of us have' date=' LACK of FREELY DISPOSABLE INCOME, IM well aware of the problem, Ive been collecting parts for my bbc install for FOUR YEARS simply because other things like food and a morgage, a $150,000 garage project, ETC.If I had chosen to install a comon 450 hp 454 I could have done it 4 years ago, but Ive always felt that, if your going to do something, you may as well wait and do it exceptional well, so your satisfied with the results[/quote'] CAM: FLAT TAPPET HYDRAULIC it is. I read a very thorough explanation of why a hydraulic flat tappet is best for my use... just like you, doc, and jakeshoe said all along:D HEADS: NEW ALUMINUM HEADS it is... within fiscally sane limits, of course. SHORT BLOCK: 383 STROKER ALL FORGED it is. I'll need to raise funds to finish this project so it'll be a few weeks. But I CAN get started. Help me, oh... help me somebody. I think I've lost my fiscal sanity!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeshoe Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 This is a good deal as far as heads go: http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62386 AFR usually has a lead time of several weeks to get a pair fo their SBC heads. Since they have their new line out, maybe you could get a better deal on these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeshoe Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 http://www.flatlanderracing.com has pretty good pricing on stroker kits. I've also used http://www.dirttrackthunder.com and CNCMotorsports for parts. http://www.competitionproducts.com usually has good pricing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 This is a good deal as far as heads go: http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62386 AFR usually has a lead time of several weeks to get a pair fo their SBC heads. Since they have their new line out' date=' maybe you could get a better deal on these?[/quote'] Thanks... I'll take a look!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COZY Z COLE Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 GRUMPY' date=' DOC, JAKESHOE... you've said this all along, but I was too dense to understand why. Now I understand. WOOHOO!!![/quote'] Praise the Lord and pass the biscuits... LARRY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Praise the Lord and pass the biscuits... LARRY Praise the Lord and pass the gas-oline. I've seen the (shift) light!!!!! I just needed specifics, guys:razz: I guess it's the control freak in me. I absolutely must know the EXACT reasoning behind any decision. You know... Analyze, Design, Develop, Impement, Evaluate. I make enough mistakes without adding to them with my ignorance:bonk: The members here and big bro' (I mean admins ) have truly helped and I thank everyone from the bottom of my oil pan. Be forewarned... I'll be asking for more advice. CRANK ON!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COZY Z COLE Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Mike, I know you want to get 4 pages out of this thread but posting 3 different ways, the same thought, even I couldn't come up with that one.... LARRY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Mike' date=' I know you want to get 4 pages out of this thread but posting 3 different ways, the same thought, even I couldn't come up with that one.... LARRY[/quote'] Okay, okay... yuk it up:confused2 I tried posting several times with errors. I had no idea three were saved:oops: I think it was SERVER error. Yuk, yuk, yuk:biggrin: I was a good boy and deleted the redundant posts:wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 "CAM: FLAT TAPPET HYDRAULIC it is" Ill try to make this clear because the message seems to have been getting distorted/twisted/confused...... while a flat tappet hydrolic cam can give good results, its a poor substitute for a correctly sellected solid lifter combo, in any engine combo that has the potential to exceed 6000rpm THE BEST PERFORMANCE VALUE IS A FLAT TAPPET SOLID LIFTER CAM, SIMPLY BECAUSE IT ALLOWS AT LEAST AN ADDITIONAL 1000RPM IN THE ENGINE RPM BAND PAST WHERE A HYDROLIC CAM ENTERS VALVE FLOAT IF PROPERLY SET UP, while learning to correctly set valve lash may seem to be a challange to the novice, the rythmic sound of a correctly adjusted solid lifter cam is truely music to the more skilled hobbyist or proffesional "UDHaroldNov 24th, 02, 03:41 AM I just got here, so I'll jump in, too.... Hydraulics are great for no-worry driving. It's not uncommon to set one, and drive it for 5 or 6 years. This IS their best feature. Solids make more power, everywhere. Some can be designed mild enough to go a year or more between lash settings, however, they do not make as much power as more aggressive cams do. Solids make more power because they have shorter seat durations, and faster valve openings, than hydraulics do. They also have more valve lift, generally. All this gives them more area under the lift curve, and the engine translates this into torque and horsepower. There are several good books, reasonably priced, that cover high-performance engines. I hope this helps. UDHarold" thats the long version, the short version is a correctly sellected solid lifter cam can provide BOTH a wider RPM RANGE and MORE AIRFLOW thru the ports you really should get these books and read them before going any further, it will help a good deal, while only the basic info is presented it still makes for a good knowledge base, and referance DO YOURSELF A HUGE FAVOR buy these books, FIRST it will be the best money you ever spent, read them, and you will be miles ahead of the average guy. youll save thousands of dollars and thousands of hours once youve got a good basic understanding of what your trying to do! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1557882...5Fencoding=UTF8 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1557883...5Fencoding=UTF8 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...F8&v=glance http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...nce&s=books HOW TO BUILD THE SMALL BLOCK CHEVEROLET by LARRY ATHERTON&LARRY SCHREIB http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...2699400-6836852 . HOW TO BUILD MAX PERFORMANCE CHEVY SMALL BLOCKS ON A BUDGET by DAVID VIZARD . JOHN LINGENFELTER on modifying small-block chevy engines how to build & modify CHEVROLET small-block V-8 CAMSHAFTS & VALVTRAINS BY DAVID VIZARD SMOKEY YUNICK,S POWER SECRETS SMALL BLOCK CHEVY ENGINE BUILDUPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 "CAM: FLAT TAPPET HYDRAULIC it is" Ill try to make this clear because the message seems to have been getting distorted/twisted/confused...... while a flat tappet hydrolic cam can give good results' date=' its a poor substitute for a correctly sellected solid lifter combo, in any engine combo that has the potential to exceed 6000rpm[/b'] THE BEST PERFORMANCE VALUE IS A FLAT TAPPET SOLID LIFTER CAM, SIMPLY BECAUSE IT ALLOWS AT LEAST AN ADDITIONAL 1000RPM IN THE ENGINE RPM BAND PAST WHERE A HYDROLIC CAM ENTERS VALVE FLOAT IF PROPERLY SET UP, while learning to correctly set valve lash may seem to be a challange to the novice, the rythmic sound of a correctly adjusted solid lifter cam is truely music to the more skilled hobbyist or proffesional "UDHaroldNov 24th, 02, 03:41 AM I just got here, so I'll jump in, too.... Hydraulics are great for no-worry driving. It's not uncommon to set one, and drive it for 5 or 6 years. This IS their best feature. Solids make more power, everywhere. Some can be designed mild enough to go a year or more between lash settings, however, they do not make as much power as more aggressive cams do. Solids make more power because they have shorter seat durations, and faster valve openings, than hydraulics do. They also have more valve lift, generally. All this gives them more area under the lift curve, and the engine translates this into torque and horsepower. There are several good books, reasonably priced, that cover high-performance engines. I hope this helps. UDHarold" thats the long version, the short version is a correctly sellected solid lifter cam can provide BOTH a wider RPM RANGE and MORE AIRFLOW thru the ports you really should get these books and read them before going any further, it will help a good deal, while only the basic info is presented it still makes for a good knowledge base, and referance DO YOURSELF A HUGE FAVOR buy these books, FIRST it will be the best money you ever spent, read them, and you will be miles ahead of the average guy. youll save thousands of dollars and thousands of hours once youve got a good basic understanding of what your trying to do! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1557882...5Fencoding=UTF8 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1557883...5Fencoding=UTF8 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...F8&v=glance http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...nce&s=books HOW TO BUILD THE SMALL BLOCK CHEVEROLET by LARRY ATHERTON&LARRY SCHREIB http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...2699400-6836852 . HOW TO BUILD MAX PERFORMANCE CHEVY SMALL BLOCKS ON A BUDGET by DAVID VIZARD . JOHN LINGENFELTER on modifying small-block chevy engines how to build & modify CHEVROLET small-block V-8 CAMSHAFTS & VALVTRAINS BY DAVID VIZARD SMOKEY YUNICK,S POWER SECRETS SMALL BLOCK CHEVY ENGINE BUILDUPS That's a lot of reading:razz: How often will I need to adjust the valves with a solid flat tappet cam... every 90 days or so? I can live with that. However, I don't want to be constantly fiddling with it. I just don't have the time or the patience. Everything is always about compromises. The trick is to find the right compromises for one's needs. I guess I'm still adjusting my thoughts on this, Grumpy. Please be patient with me whle I wring out my brain and re-absorb what you guys are telling me... and re-think my needs. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeshoe Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 One thing I will point out, While Grumpy makes a good point and in many cases a solid flat tappet has more power potential, however in a sub 6500 rpm combination, mostly a sub 6000 rpm combination, it isn't necessary. A solid flat tappet does not suffer from lifter "pump-up" which is the action that happens at RPM when the oil pressure is higher and the valvetrain less stable. The hydraulic lifter has a plunger that has a range of travel, when the valves are properly adjusted this plunger is depressed into the lifter approximately .060" depending on adjustment method. This plunges the lifter into the hydraulic cavity. The oil in the hydraulic cavity "adjusts" to compensate for wear. However when things get out of control this oil can "adjust" when it shouldn't. This is the case at high rpm with a hydraulic lifter, there may be a momentary "lash" at high rpm when the lifter goes over the nose of the cam and starts to descend down the back of the lobe. This will let the oil fill the lifter to take up the lash, but then when the cam gets to the base circle (area of no lift) the lifter has too much oil in it, and this oil can't escape quickly, because there is a one way check valve involved. This causes the valves to not completely seat, and loss of compression/power/valve control. This is not an issue on a SBC until at a minimum very high 5000 rpm range, with proper component selection, a flat tappet hydraulic can approach (and exceed in some special cases) 7000 rpm without any issues. I have routinely built SBC's that would rev to ~6500 rpm with a flat tappet hydraulic without lifter pump up or valve float, etc.. One of the keys is how you lash the valves, and if you want zero issues at the higher rpm levels there are special hydraulic lifters that can be used. The solid lifter doesn't have this issue because it is basically a positive mechanical "link" between the cam and the pushrod, it simply transfers motion from the lobe to the pushrod. It also spreads the load, dissipates heat, creates a spinning motion to control heat and wear, etc. However for simplicity it won't "pump-up". Another interesting sidenote is that the initial ramp of a hydraulic cam is usually faster than a solid, but just the initial opening, because of the lack of lash to be taken up, a hydraulic can and needs to near instantly begin rise. The quick initial opening causes the oil to try to reverse flow (because the pushrod is pushing on the plunger) and closes off the one-way check valve in the hyd lifter. A solid lifter has lash that must be taken up relatively slowly so the rocker arm doesn't beat up the valve tip. This is why the lash adjustment on a solid lifter cam is very important. One thing I would caution, You have alot of good advice here but you have to apply it to YOUR specific needs. My guess is that you are probably not REALLY willing to deal with the lash adjustments, one it is a learning process, two you may or may not have anyone to actually help you "hands-on" with this that knows what they are doing, three initially the cam may need more frequent adjustments during break-in, etc. and also it requires better components to hold a good adjustment, such as roller rockers with poly-locks. If you are willing to learn the process and do the adjustments, then the solid lifter cam is probably worth a minor improvement in power in a 6500 rpm combo, a very minor improvement in a 6000 rpm combo, and may not be worth any realizable power in a sub 6000 rpm combo. It sounds like your combo will be a mostly street deal that will rarely see over 6000 rpm, and that you probably want to be reliable as a rock with minimum fuss. Go with a hydraulic flat tappet OR roller. Either will work well for your combo. It just depends on budget. Don't let someone convince you that you need all the whiz bang parts, the 10-15 HP a solid flat tappet MIGHT contribute to an equivalently cammed hydraulic SBC may not be worth the trouble in your case but only you can decide that. I have seen many cases where someone built "TOO MUCH" motor. It sounds cool to have a 12-1 compression solid roller cam'd, aluminum headed, stroker motor but in reality this isn't what makes a good street motor for most people, and sometimes even a race motor would be better suited without the high strung manners and maintenance program an engine like this demands. You need to assess your goals and get reliable recommendations from several sources and ask for reasons when you see differences in the recommendations. If 3 engine builders tell you cam specs within 5-10 degrees of each other for your combo, and one other tells you some wazoo specs that differ significantly, ask the odd recommedation WHY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 "How often will I need to adjust the valves with a solid flat tappet cam... " that depends on several factors but every 3-4 months will be about average durring the first 8-9 months, then it will drop back to about every 6-8 months if nothing is wearing or badly adjusted when you design an engine combo youll need to match components, now one of the factors youll want to look at is the reasonable max piston speeds, on a stock component combo that usually best to keep it under 4000 feet per MINUTE,(FPM) if your useing good quality ballanced/clearanced & forged , light weight components thats potentially raised to 4500 FPM.(providing all other components match, but in most cases youll never build a combo that actually reachs those rpms, youll just approach those limits since theres TWICE the stroke traveled in one RPM, its not that difficult to figgure it out, your 350 has approximately a 3.5" stroke, so 4000 x 12 =48000/7=6857 rpm, very deffinitely into solid lifter range, the 383 has a 3.75" stroke so your at approximately 6400rpm WITH STOCK COMPONENTS, use good forged parts and ballance the assembly and your at 7700 rpm for a 350 and 7200rpm with a 383 both well into solid lifter range. personally I like to limit FORGED/BALLANCED 350s to about 7100rpm and 383s to about 6700rpm, as theres no real power advantage above those limits if its used on a street/strip combo and youll be expecting to drive it in traffic think about that for a minute...... if you use a hydrolic cam your very likely to have valve control problems above 5800-6100rpm, on a 350 thats really hurting you , on a 383, its a p.i.t.a. but it can be worked around, but youll be giving up some power potential, enought so that youll easilly tell the differance now don,t get the idea I don,t use hydrolic cams in hot 383 builds, I do, like the one below, but even thou it says it pulls 7000rpm it won,t, it just reachs about 6300 rpm the solid lifter design like the 110921 makes more power and revs cleaner, pulls harder up to 7000rpm in the correctly assembled combo hydrolic http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&lvl=2&prt=5&Vehicle_Type=Auto&Cylinders=8&Engine_Make=CHEVROLET&Year=1980&Engine_Size=262-400%20C.I.&partNumber=110741&partType=camshaft solid for manual trans http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&lvl=2&prt=5&Vehicle_Type=Auto&Cylinders=8&Engine_Make=CHEVROLET&Year=1980&Engine_Size=262-400%20C.I.&partNumber=110921&partType=camshaft solid for auto trans http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&lvl=2&prt=5&Vehicle_Type=Auto&Cylinders=8&Engine_Make=CHEVROLET&Year=1980&Engine_Size=262-400%20C.I.&partNumber=114681&partType=camshaft the wider LCA helps the auto, but hurts the low rpm tq , all those cams listed REQUIRE a 3.73-4.11 rear gear ratio, a manual trans or 3000rpm stall converter and at least a 10.5 cpr to get the best results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 BTW http://savetheledges.org/test/AVS/images/tech/CrankDegreeWheel.png http://www.tavia.com/free_degree_wheel.html read thru the links on this old thread http://www.thedirtforum.com/chevyvalves.htm http://www.2quicknovas.com/happyvalves.html http://www.jimcookperformance.com/TechNotes/TN7ValvLash.html http://www.centuryperformance.com/valveadjustment.asp http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/uhs89720.htm http://www.boostandfuel.com/support/setting_valves.htm http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/87998/index2.html http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/pontiacdude428/valveadj.html http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/showfla...rue#Post1178811 this may help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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