Tokicao shocks: Preformance or Illumina?

[Guest firebern]

So I got a V8 in the car and need to change my shocks. I don't want to spend much but I want stiff shocks cause I like that kind of ride.

 

SO my dealer is pushing for me to go with Illuminas and coil overs from Ground Control, but this is twice the price of Performances and stiff coils.

 

I'd like to get impressions from owner who have both setup. I feel I should probably go with coil overs and illuminas but it's goping to hurt my savings. I'd be happy with stiffer than stock shocks and stiffer springs.

[jeromio]

I followed the advice of several people on this forum and others and bought the much less expensive Performas. The adjustability of the Illuminas would've been a nice-to-have, but it's just way too expensive to be justifiable.

 

I have 150lb front and 175lb rear springs and my car is stiff. Really stiff. Friend of mine was visiting recently and took the car for a drive. When he got out, he was making complaints of "skateboard car" and holding his kidneys with a grimace.

 

It handles very well. Incredibly well, but, just be aware that the trade-off is comfort. I can see where it would be nice to be able to set the shocks on "soft". But then I don't know exactly how much the shocks are contributing to stiffness vs. the springs.

 

Also, GC products are very nice. But be aware that their price is much higher than resellers such as http://fonebooth.com/auto.html and http://cyberauto.com

[Modern Motorsports Ltd]

"I have 150lb front and 175lb rear springs and my car is stiff. Really stiff."

 

Interesting, my fathers LT1240Z has 175/225's and his felt quite comfortable for daily use and occasional track stuff. I wouldn't call it 'stiff' in a comfort sense, just a nice handling sense. He is also running the larger swaybar upgrade kit and strutbraces front and rear. It's quite soft in comparison to my 375/250 'track' oriented setup. Stock springs were 125-140 or so were they not? Other friends are running 175/225 or 200/225 in V8Z's that I know of. If much track use was intended and you have great traction and big brakes I'd be curious to see what 250/225's would feel like...decrease the nose dive that I did notice was a lot more present in my dad's setup with stock brakes and above spring rates than it ever appears in my setup with 13's.

[jeromio]

I have the stock fron swaybar and none in the rear. Maybe it is the shocks that are making it stiff?

 

Maybe it's a consiracy and even though I specified 150/175, the vendor(s) sold me 300? The fronts are Eibach (red) with some various white numbers on them, none of which can be translated into anything like "150". There is a 000175 or 00075 (I forget) which I took to mean the rate or something.

 

Expansion joints are not the friend of my Z. It doesn't warble or bottom out though. In fact, there's a "smooth" bump on my drive home that used to (with the ancient old springs/struts) send the car crashing and jumping and bumping. Now it just zooms right over it. Potholes and freeway joints are murder though. And the car moves imperseptively when you try and bounce it by pressing on the fender or bumper.

[Modern Motorsports Ltd]

what size/ratio tire do you run, that can be a factor, less than a 50 series get's a bit 'harsh' IMO, 225/50/16's on 7" width were a lot friendlier than my 245/45/16's on 8" width.

[Tim240z]

I don't think that the sway bars will have any effect on ride stiffness, at least not going straight. The springs coil rate is the key. The shocks will not really add stiffness either, it's main purpose is to slow down the collapse and expansion of the springs.....?

Tim

[Guest firebern]

Fast,

 

good I prefer going with the Performance shocks and saving a few. The sales guy, a good guy but maybe too much of a fanatic, was really pushing for those illuminas but I didn't feel good about it. If I really want adjustment, I can always buy the coil over setup later.

 

I want my car to stand straigth when I'm flooring, I want to feel that kick on my back. I want the car to tilt only sligthly when cornering but need those tires to grip at 200km/h.

 

150lb front and 175lb back sounds good for every day use. How is the cornering?

What about 225 and 250?

 

SO how come some use 250F 200B when others 200F 250B why not just 225F 225B? What is the diference.

 

I am planning on buying some Eagle T/A tires

195-55R14, currently I have GT4s.

[Modern Motorsports Ltd]

"I don't think that the sway bars will have any effect on ride stiffness, at least not going straight."

 

Tim, with my 280zx (ie. stiffer OEM chassis than a Z chassis) swaybars made a very noticeable difference. It eliminated a lot of chassis flex that you routinely feel just driving over a curb etc and makes those bumps feel a lot 'bigger' than before. Just my experience.

 

And shocks can most certainly affect ride feel. In general terms they are your rapid/transient response mechanism and springs are for less 'instantaneous' responses. It's been said not to run too soft a shock with tokico's as they are a stiff shock and a soft spring won't give them enough support and can then blow the shock as it takes on too much load. With my illuminas I can tell if they're set on 3 or 1. (I never go to 5 on my ride)

[Guest scca]

Fire:

for a street use L6 driven alot i would suggest 175-200 rate springs.

IMO 150-175 is soft- close to what suspension techniques uses in their kits (160?)

Track cars use stronger front springs for nose dive, street cars use stiffer rears or = for rear end squat.

 

generally if you dont know what you want go soft.

the shock can only DAMPEN what the spring is doing so adding good shocks like illuminas to stock springs is a waste of $$

 

FYI illuminas on the setting of 3 are where the non-adj are set at by the factory.

i have non-adj in my car and its plenty stiff. only need illuminas if you will do autox and want to adjust it there.

 

put a set of new tokikos in your car the regular ones and then go from there..

roughly $120 ea C$ for ya since the dollar has been falling..............

if you want those and springs i can help you out...

[Brad-ManQ45]

I have Eibachs and Illuminas on the '83 ZXT and just put the Tockiko Performance shocks along w/springs & anti-sway bars from TMC Group on my '75.

 

The '75 rides better - springs are not as stiff.

 

Thisis just fine by me as w/the V-8 and Auto it will be my daily driver. These springs, much like the Eibachs, are progressive in the rear only - but not by much - not as much as the Eibachs which start out much stiffer (giving them bothe the 265 lb. jounce test on a back and front corner).

 

Springs were $145 and Bars (1.125" front and .875 rear - I know - I'll take it off when the V8 goes in) were about $240.

 

Right now the care has ZX wheels 215/60/14 Goodriches and rides nicely.

[Guest Anonymous]

I guess it depends on the kind of car you want to build. IMO if you want the car to REALLY handle on the track or canyon carving, coil overs with camber plates are the way to go. Extremely tunable. Mucho $$$ but it'll probably be the last suspension mod you'll have to do aside from playing with spring rates. On my stock z I went 200 front/250 rear spring rates(10" coils). It turns extremely well, thou that's with the front shocks set on 4-5 track, 3 on the street. I'm gonna experiment alittle with the spring rates. I didn't have the $$ to do Illuminas all around so I put the adjustables in front and the standard tokikos in back (I called the factory and they told me they were equvilent to the #2 setting on the illuminas, I will get illuminas for the rear soon, thou prob only set them on #3 at the highest) 1" swaybar in front. 1.5--2 degrees -camber all around. The coil overs help you balance the car so you can get the over or under steer you perfer. 215/60/14 rubber..I'm planning on going to 225/60/15 thou for the V8. The extra sidewall (to me) makes the ride a bit more comfortable and offer more predictablity and compliance with the road surface.

 

Hope this helps.

 

BTW, Ground control makes excellent suspension.

 

Jon

[Guest Anonymous]

I forgot to add this...

You'll want a good seat and harnesses. The car will turn so well you'll want to be held tightly in place. Not to mention the added safety.

 

jon

[Guest Anonymous]

Please excuse me for not putting all this into one post. I'm an idiot.

 

Firebern, for some good advice on suspension (corner weighting, swaybar tuning etc) go toGRMotorsports and check out the tech tips

[Guest Anonymous]

i'm planning on upgrading my suspension real soon as well. so it seems like everyone is going with eibach springs, and tokico shocks. i was wondering where can i get a good deal on strut and sway bars? what about urethane bushings?

[Guest Anonymous]

picsofupl,

Just shop around, sign-up for the catalogs etc. For starters try Motorsport Auto http://www.zcarparts.com/, Victoria British http://www.victoriabritish.com/, yada yada yada.

 

Go ahead and do the bushings. I know a guy that found them on the web for 140.00 for a complete set. Heh, that's what he said.

 

Yah gotta use your resources, the web being one of them.

[Cyind]

I got mine from SCCA/Mike I got the 5 wqy Ill's and 200# Hypercoils springs for the front. I'll get around to installing some day but know they will do what I want them to do. Soft setting for 1/4 and med for normal driving and frim if I want to autox... Do yourself a favor and check with SCCA before buying from MSA. Saved me $50 bucks on shocks and I was able to order just the front set of springs from him. My Corvette IRS does not need any Springs everyone else only sells in sets of 4....

 

Z U V8ter

[Guest firebern]

There are a couple of guys that can cut you a deal on this site. This is going to be my winter project, so I am going to order soon.

I still have some Xmember problems to deal with.

 

Fire.