Which ECU Should I go with (FAQ)

[Pascal]

After all that reading i must say again MoTeC!!!

Why? Just tell me why is there not any Mircotech, HKS, Wolf or whatever are thoose names on WRC cars or Formula 3 or A1 formulas or maybe WTCC or any professional car for professional auto sport?? I know well for example for Top Run Racing how is it. BTW. 2 times in row winner in Super production on WRC with Manfred Stohl with Mitsu EVO 6 and Gabriel Pozzo with Mitsu EVO 7. (i hope that is enough for credibility hehe) I was working 3 years there and during witch i saw it testing on Engine break test machine!!! (so there is no any looses os abracadabra cause is simply tested pure engine power and torque on fly wheel). Was been tested Bosch, Magnetti Marelli, Walbro TDD, HKS, E-manage, MoTeC, AIM, AEM, Wolf and few others. Best reult is with Magnetti marelli (to exspensive), second place MoTeC (witch did win WRC Championship), Wolf (missing shitload of stuff like reverse telemetry and multiple lambda + multi map's), HKS (was been funiest discovery and noone still underestand why so expensive ECU people use in so many street cars) and so on. Best torque and best performance with dash and rest what is needed was been with MoTeC. So after all MoTeC seems to me, specially now with new ECU that should come out on end of month, best choice. Not to mention that MoTeC did kick down all prices! New logging with dash or just stand alone and very new i2PRO software with newest technology to synchronize onboard camera with logged data!!!!!! Awsome tools for any pro or not! Try to imagine onboard camera where you can see why power boat have 5 G and where!!!!! Awsome stuff!

 

Best regards Pascal

[Rumnhammer]

Well, as soon as I get a chance to have a spare minute to work on the RBZ I'll be mounting the wolf in the car and using base maps that Ron got for me from Wolf. I have total confidence that the Wolf will be ideal for this application. Ron went above and beyond getting me base maps and settings for the V500 especially since we did not get the unit from him. Although I would highly recomend getting your wolf though him, since he was very prompt in getting them to me, and is a very responsable dealer and a pleasure to deal with. The plug and play RB25DET v500 that we got was a very early release and did not have base maps and settings in it. Ron has said to me that future plug and play versions will come with the settings and base maps all ready in place. Having not had time to actually stick it in the car yet, I can tell you that the plug and play kit is very complete, and when it comes with the base maps already in it, install will be measured in minutes! Litterally once you mount the ecu, you just plug in the adapter plug and plug the adapter into the harness and you are done. I''l be posting my results as soon as I get it in there.

Chris Rummel

[BRAAP]

Interesting view you presented. Thank you for your input. It is nice to read about what the top Echelons of sports car racing are up to in regards to EMS.

 

 

…….. Wolf (missing shitload of stuff like reverse telemetry ……New logging with dash or just stand alone and very new i2PRO software with newest technology to synchronize onboard camera with logged data!!!!!! Awsome tools for any pro or not! Try to imagine onboard camera where you can see why power boat have 5 G and where!!!!! Awsome stuff!

 

Best regards Pascal

 

With all due respect, in reading your post I feel that you are coming at this from a money being “little to no object” full tilt top echelon race team point of view. As Ron Tyler mentioned previously in this thread, it really boils down to what ones EMS needs are in regards to their application. Apparently your needs are on par with the WRC, F-3, and other top echelons of sports car racing. Features such as Telemetry are cool and all, but those kind of features that benefit full tilt race teams do add considerable financial expense that is hard to justify for us hobbyist, let alone make use of. Most of us Hybrid Z guys probably don’t have telemetry on our EMS “must have list” at least not until we are ready to start competing in WRC or F-3 with our Z cars.

 

After all that reading i must say again MoTeC!!!

Why? Just tell me why is there not any Mircotech, HKS, Wolf or whatever are thoose names on WRC cars or Formula 3 or A1 formulas or maybe WTCC or any professional car for professional auto sport?? I know well for example for Top Run Racing how is it. BTW. 2 times in row winner in Super production on WRC with Manfred Stohl with Mitsu EVO 6 and Gabriel Pozzo with Mitsu EVO 7. (i hope that is enough for credibility hehe) ……. MoTeC (witch did win WRC Championship), …..

Best regards Pascal

 

Your points are well proven, and as you stated, yes, they are indeed “credible”. In keeping this in perspective, we don’t have multi million dollar factory support, deep pocket sponsors etc. Granted, if we could, we would love to play with those incredibly powerful EMS that are being used on the WRC cars, but I have a hard time believing that the actual EMS that is used on those quoted winning WRC cars is even remotely close to the same systems that is available over the counter for us average consumers, and if they are available, at what cost would that be? I’m pretty sure that the internals of those top echelon winning EMS are NOT what is available to the general public in those same companies over the counter products. Even if that same EMS was available over the counter, it will be substantially more $ than the systems this thread has been talking about. Those top Echelon race teams invest lots of money and time into prototyping what we the consumer will see in our “over the counter” EMS 5 years from now.

 

 

……. I was working 3 years there and during witch i saw it testing on Engine break test machine!!! (so there is no any looses os abracadabra cause is simply tested pure engine power and torque on fly wheel). …….. Best torque and best performance with dash and rest what is needed was been with MoTeC. …….

 

Best regards Pascal

 

 

 

For the 99% of the engines powering cars on this forum, I would venture to guess that there really shouldn’t be much if any POWER difference between the currently mass produced over the counter EMS such as Wolf V500, Haltec, Electromotive, AEM, and all the others available in similar price brackets. The over the counter universal and plug-&-play systems mentioned in this thread are all capable and powerful enough with fine enough resolution and speed to manage the fuel and ignition to a level that most of us here would be hard pressed to better with a substantially more powerful EMS system such as what is currently being used on those quoted WRC cars. Even if those systems were worth 5% more power on our Hybrid Z cars, how much more are we going to pay for that WRC winning EMS system? (If they are indeed worth more power on our Hybrid-Z power plants, I’d bet it won’t be more than 3-5% more power for at least 200+% more cost).

 

…. Wolf (missing shitload of stuff like reverse telemetry and multiple lambda + multi map's), ….

 

 

In regards the crap load of stuff you stated that Wolf is missing, how long ago was that test performed and exactly which Wolf system was that? Your information is inaccurate, or at least quite dated. The Wolf V500, and even the Wolf version 4 DOES support multiple maps.

 

Again, I’m not trying to be disrespectful and I do appreciate your input in regards to the factory backed racing teams EMS technology, but I am struggling with the connection between those elite prototype Engine Management Systems and the Engine Management Systems we are discussing in this thread.

[Pascal]

No worries, no offence. Everyone did accept me here very nice and i am very happy to have forum where i really enyoy to read and write. Thanks for that to everyone! And for price? hmm MoTeC cost from 1630 AUD to M600 2400 AUD. I think that AIM or Wolf does not cost that much less! Please post prices for one AIM, HKS and Wolf. I dont know how much they are.

 

Thanks

[RTz]

Interesting post Pascal. Its good to see some diversity from the other side of the pond. However, I'm compelled to stand in defense of your miss-information regarding Wolf...

 

I think it would be unreasonable to blanket all generations of Wolf systems (or any brand for that matter) into one lump. I make this assumption due in part to your seemingly inaccurate claim of a singular map. As of version 4, multi-mapping has been an option through an external plug-in. V500 has it built-in. This leads me to believe that you are making claims based on an older Wolf generation. Admittedly, the older versions had limited individual cylinder tuning and, if compared to a far more expensive system at the time, could easily explain the power discrepancy. However, If you were intimate with Wolf these day's, you'd know that this is no longer the case. You'd find that Wolf has addressed this deficiency head on. In this case, it seems that old data is worse than no data.

 

There are a few more flaws in your portrayal of Wolf. Please allow me to clarify a few things. You mentioned that Wolf is "missing shitload of stuff" and implied that these features is what sets Motec apart... for a mere $2400 AUD. I spent a little time shopping for a Motec today. The LEAST expensive M600 I found was $3170 AUD. And, interesting enough, the majority of these cool features that Motec 'has' are not included. They are *EXTRA*. Things like Data Logging, Anti-Lag, Dual Wideband, Staged injection, Variable Cam timing, Drive-by-wire, etc. Opting for just 3 of these... Data logging ($350 AUD), Drive by wire ($700 AUD), and Anti-Lag ($350 AUD) added another $1400 AUD. I'm not gonna split hairs with you... I'll take your word for it that you can buy an M600 for less than I quoted, in the limited time I spent 'shopping'. Nonetheless, I'm not seeing this "WRC" or "Formula 3" level system coming anywhere NEAR the prices you quoted... the add-on's alone can cost more than an entire Wolf system.

 

Further, Wolf will do nearly ALL of these things INCLUDED in the box for around $1900 AUD (approx. $1600 US). For example, Wolf has 13 auxiliary inputs and 22 auxiliary outputs (6 of which are PWM)... how many Wide-bands would you like? Data logging built-in. With multi-mapping, Anti-lag is implied. Continuously variable cam timing is built-in. Drive-by-wire could be arranged... if you're savvy. M600 has 6 ignition & 6 injector channels. Wolf V500 has 8 of each. Granted, this is a 6 cylinder thread. But, Wolf allows you to put those 4 unused channels to work as independent auxiliary outputs. A Motec M800 (with 8 of each) costs another $350 AUD. Motec's individual cylinder trim tables (fuel and spark) have 210 points. Wolf has 2048... nearly 10 times the resolution. Boost control is the same on both accounts... 210 vs. 2048.

 

Forgive me for wondering about the "shitload of stuff" missing from Motec. They are BOTH formidable systems. Each with their own strengths.

 

Don't get me wrong. I have plenty of respect for Motec. It truly is a nice system. I can appreciate your attraction to it. For a lot of us, its price is what holds it back. For me, its simple... in my opinion, its performance is not proportionate to its price.

[Pascal]

ehm... may bad. Was been quite year a go. heh sorry. Obviusly Wolf did go much more step's fruther! Congrats for that. As for prices, ouch!! Is that cheap Wolf??? Is it 1900 AUD? WOOOW Then i must apologize to all guys from this part of forum. Its not worth for maybe few HP more to spend shitload of money more. That is for sure. I will do my homework on Wolf first i see! Must be actually very good system for good price seems to me.

 

Sry again everyone.

 

Pascal

[RTz]

heh sorry.

 

No need to apologize! EMS's have evolved so much in the last few years that its virtually impossible to keep track of who's doing what.

 

For what its worth, I can find something to like about nearly all of the available systems, irrespective of price. Personally, I think there are enough brands to go around for everyone

 

 

As for prices, ouch!! Is that cheap Wolf??? Is it 1900 AUD? WOOOW

 

 

Todays 'suggested retail price' for V500 is $1895 AUD (around $1600 US). Some dealers offer club discounts, group buy's, and so on.