Corzette Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Can anyone run this in Desktop? Im gonna upgrade my 396 since its kinda slow at the track. Heres what I am going to get: AFR 305 Heads 119 CCs. 2500-6800 RPM RANGE APPROX 10 to 1 Compression Performer Torker II Intake Single PLain 2500-6500 RPM RANGE 1 3/4 Block Huggers Dual exhaust (already have) Pistons are forged flat tops and I dont remember the relief CCs. 3.75 Stroke standard 396 bore (no over boring) COMP XR288HR CAM .521/.540 LIFT 288/294 Duration 110 Lobe sep. 2500-6000 RPM Range. Hydraulic Lifters RETRO FIT Roller ROCKERS aluminum I will probably run a 750DP Holley or 850DP. I currently have stock heads and Comp 265 Flat tappet cam = NO POWER...lol. It has to at least be as fast as it looks in my opinion. Can anyone chime in with opinions on the above build. I am not changing the bottom end, only cam, lifters and heads. I would like to see at least 12s out of this show car...I also run the T56 six Speed and will need to change the cluth to a stiffer setup as well. Wholly crap Big Blocks aint cheap. This stuff here alone will run me about $4000 bones...dammit and I have two Zs.... Thanks in advance... Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Ok I build at least 5 bbc for every sbc, http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/crc.htm your cpr is WAY lower than 10:1 with those 119 cc heads closer to 7:1 youll need EITHER better increase cpr or change your build plans, let me look over your options, ILL post shortly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 Thanks Grumpy. Well that explains the NO POWER on current setup...ran like 16s in the quarter at 87 or 88 MPH I think. Hmmm maybe this would be better: PERFORMER HIGH-COMPRESSION 454-O Chamber Size Intake Port Size Valve Sizes (in/ex) Bare (single) Complete (single) 100cc 290cc 2.19"/1.88" #60489 #60499 I just want to aVOID TEARING DOWN THE BOTTOM END IF IT CAN BE HELPED... sorry CAPS locked.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 16's in the 1/4...damn Terry! Somethings wrong, I can push it faster than that...LOL. Can't go wrong with the right set of AFR heads. I am looking at the new Eliminator AFR 210's as we speak. I want to go faster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 Hey Mike! Whats up buddy! Well yeah the 396 has some work to be done. Its mainly a show car but damn, when people on the street come up to me and comment on it they always say MAN I BET THAT CAR CAN HAUL SOME BUTT with that big block in there!!!! I jsut say to myself "damn I hope they dont ask me to race or anything ...hahaha. Then I go get my black 240:mrgreen: Anyways yes it should be just as strong or stronger than my 240 so I need to fix it before I go any further on the 240. I forgot that the combustion chambers mainly determined the Compression ratio as far as what pistons you have in there. Unfortunately there are flat tops in there right now with the stock iron heads. Whew!!! its slow. So looks like I may have to change out the pistons after all. Hell if I have to do that then I might as well just bore it up 40 over for a 404. Crap, thatll be another 6 or 7 hundreds bucks plus machine work....but at least Ill have a piece of mind and theres nothing wrong with high 11s for a daily cruiser I guess! Im really set on a 434 short block for the next build for the 240. I still have alot time to ponder since Ill be in Japan for another 3 years or so...my storage is filling up with so many goodies.... Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 http://www.worldcastings.com/prods_pages/020750.htm these heads have a 80cc combustion chamber but the ports are 350cc so only a dual plane intake will work, on that 396 and even then the ports are too large to be ideal. now if it was my 396 heres what ID suggest, sit down ant think your options thru....a 454-496 short block could be swaped for that 396, or if you want to sick with the 396 block, install a reasonably cheap cast STEEL crank from a 454, and these pistons in your current combo, to build a stroker 434 with a higher compression ratio. but no matter which route you sellect youll want to get up to betwen,about 10.5-11:1 cpr http://kb-silvolite.com/performance.php?action=details&P_id=110 http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/PDFs/Crank06.pdf theres some good info here http://maliburacing.com/patrick_budd_article.htm http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/6230_rat_versus_mouse_engines/index2.html http://www.idavette.net/hib/vette_bbfh.htm I really wish you were local, I could help you out with a few parts, help, ETC. but we would need to discuss it in detail, as theres no sence in throwing money and effort on a half thought thru project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 Thanks Grumppy. Questions: 1. Can I put the 454 crank in there without any clearancing? 2. What rods would I use? The ones I have currently? I like the 434 stroker idea... Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 Another thought, Im liking this 454 4 bolt assemled rebuild for only $2500. http://www.larrysperformance.com/data/long.html I asked him what CP ratio and chamber size and piston type etc. Waiting for an answer. Maybe just a head change to aluminum heads and better cam may be the answer for under 5K.. Also he has short blocks for only $1800. I could do the build for around 4K that way...oh the pain. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 The 454 I see on the website is $1495 which is a pretty good deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 the 454s 4" stroke cranks a drop in deal in MOST 396 blocks your current rods work fine you will need a differant damper and flex plate or flywheel or a ballance weight added to the flexplate or flywheel (454s are EXTERNALLY ballanced) the 454 short blocks the better idea but its also far more expensive, you could probably get the 434 built for under $1000-$1200, useing mostly what you have now and the pistons /rings, bearings and a ballance job,designed for that application Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 Grumpy what about these heads? And why does it say they have 9.2 compression ratio with flat tops? Im confused. If I go with these heads, 454 crank, my rods, .060 over bore, I get around 10 to 1 on the calculator. So when I order pistons I would buy pistons for a 454 crank with a rod length of 6.135 and tell them its an overbore of .060 on a 396 with Combustion Chambers of 100CC right? Man this is more confusing than the SBC setups. Will the pistons work with semi open chambers? Am I on the right track? Performer High-Compression 454-O Designed for 396, 427 & 454 (7.4L) c.i.d. engines, these 100cc semi-open chamber heads feature a 1-1/2° rolled over (angle milled) design that improves intake port alignment and provides a smaller combustion chamber without shrouding the valves. The 100cc combustion chambers are coupled with the same size valves and ports as the #60459 Performer RPM heads, producing 9.2:1 compression with flat-top pistons for an outstanding high performance street head. When used on 1987-up TBI equipped 7.4L dished piston motors they produce an 8.8:1 compression ratio and made over 450 ft/lbs. torque when combined with our Multi-Point EFI System. The heads also feature an exhaust crossover passage for 50-state emission legal status. Available assembled with high quality components: one piece stainless steel, 2.19" intake and 1.88" exhaust valves: ARP 7/16" diameter rocker studs, bronze guides and ductile iron seats with 3-angle valve job. Features stock port locations, 9/16" deck thickness and heli-coils in the rocker stud and exhaust bolt holes. Mark IV rocker arms and valvetrain parts required. See chart for more specs. Performer High-Compression 454-O Chamber Size Bare (single) Complete (single) 100cc #60489 #60499 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 useing mostly what you have now and the pistons /rings, bearings and a ballance job,designed for that application Sounds like a good plan. It will be interesting to tell people you have a 434. MOST people have never heard of such a creature and will probably ask if it's dodge or something. haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 OK... here is where Im at so far...this should be a better list: Heads - Performer(EDL 60499 with 100CC Chambers) Airgap -Dual Plain 2000-6000 RPM RANGE Pistons - KB361020-8 (4.145 Bore -17 CC Dome) Floaters Rings - Sealed Power 5/64-5/64-3/16 SLP-E-243K020 Rods - mine stock 6.135 length Crank - SCAT SCA910454 4 inch stroke 454 Crank Bearings - Clevite H series CLE MS829H 2 Piece rear seal 1 3/4 Block Huggers Dual exhaust (already have) Head Gasket FEL 8180PT-2 .039 Crushed 4.370 bore CAM - Flat Tappet XE284H 2300-6500 RPM Range .574/.578 Lift 240/246 @.50 110 Lobe 284/296 With the above I come up with a .059 Quench, 10:1 to 1 CPR, 431 Cubic inches, assuming piston to deck clearance of .020. Do you know what stock clearance on a 396 is? Grumpy does this make more sense? HP estimates? This will give me about a 10:1 to 1 CPR Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 ASSuming you're only .030 over since you said you might go .040 over with the 4" stroke (and 4.124" bore) you will have a 427.4 ci engine. This is as close as I could get DD with the files I had. I'm too lazy to put in head flow and cam specs. I used the Dart Pro 310cc heads. http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=13537&cat=500&ppuser=12134 well this is your initial stroker setup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
660Z Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 If your running flat tops, I would just throw a blower and cam in it. Honestly the only real reason for flattops in a bigblock is for a blower anyway. I have a 66 396 325 horse model in my 68 nova. I put a small factory cam (375 horse) solid .520 lift 309 dur, 60`s model open plane alum intake w/850 db holley. And it runs fine. Even with the metal intake and hdy cam it would hold it`s own. Mark PS. I`ve thought about doing the 454 crank idea myself someday. So thanks for the info in the thead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 OK... here is where Im at so far...this should be a better list: Heads - Performer(EDL 60499 with 100CC Chambers) Performer -Torker II Intake Single PLain 2500-6500 RPM RANGE Pistons - KB361020-8 (4.145 Bore -17 CC Dome) Floaters Rings - Sealed Power 5/64-5/64-3/16 SLP-E-243K020 Rods - mine stock 6.135 length Crank - SCAT SCA910454 4 inch stroke 454 Crank Bearings - Clevite H series CLE MS829H 2 Piece rear seal 1 3/4 Block Huggers Dual exhaust (already have) Head Gasket FEL 8180PT-2 .039 Crushed 4.370 bore CAM - Flat Tappet XE284H 2300-6500 RPM Range .574/.578 Lift 240/246 @.50 110 Lobe 284/296 With the above I come up with a .059 Quench, 10:1 to 1 CPR, 431 Cubic inches, assuming piston to deck clearance of .020. Do you know what stock clearance on a 396 is? Grumpy does this make more sense? HP estimates? This will give me about a 10:1 to 1 CPR Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 the edelbrock heads are ok for the application,in a 434 they will get you to 10.0:1, cpr. the edelbrock torker II is one of the least effective intakes available, if you have the hood clearance get an air gap dual plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 Understood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 ASSuming you're only .030 over since you said you might go .040 over with the 4" stroke (and 4.124" bore) you will have a 427.4 ci engine. This is as close as I could get DD with the files I had. I'm too lazy to put in head flow and cam specs. I used the Dart Pro 310cc heads. http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=13537&cat=500 well this is your initial stroker setup Thanks 383 but the pic cant be viewed for some reason. Oh did I tell you Im actually from San Angelo? Hell we can hit the track there near Midland and Angelo in the future!! OOH RAH!!! Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 ITS ALWAYS a good idea to step back and think thru each component change and its effects on reaching your goal, now many components you buy for that 396 bbc are wasted money if you decide to upgrade later to a larger bore block, now you can make 550hp and 500 plus ft lbs fairly easily with a 434 stroker if your willing to build it to run on high octane fuel, not pump gas, but almost the same total expence will build a 496 stroker that will top 600hp on high test PUMP GAS, the differance is mostly the bore,displacement and stroke, and of couse the block used. don,t get hung up on block cost, or for that matter any one component, look only at total expence and results per dollar spent. and don,t get into a rush! increased displacement is a lot more effective cost wise than spinning an engine to extreme rpms to move the same volume of air to burn the same amount of fuel to make equal power and its alot less strain on the valve train now don,t think IM saying DON,T build the 396, what IM saying is be sure your working to0 acheive the goal you really want rather than wasting time and money, you can easily build a killer 396/434 stroker but think it thru!!BEFORE spending a dime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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