Fastzdriver Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 hey everyone. currently i have the opportunity to purchase a 383 sbc with a 700R4 for cheap. My original plan was to go with a quality remanifactured engine and Borg Warner T-56 6 speed. my question to all of you is this. i plan on using this car (1975 V8 280z) as my daily driver. i drive ALOT. for example i drove close to 40,000 miles last year between my car and my motorcycle. i am concerned about gas mileage.. will the 700R4 be decent on the highway since thats where most of my driving is done until i get the T-56 purchased and installed. I will be running a stock R-200 with a 3.54 ratio or a R-200 LSD with the same ratio. your opinions on this will be greatly appreciated. ------------------ Have you had your Z-8 today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dankinzle Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 I run a 700 with 3.9 rear and 205 70r14 tires. I drive at 70 mph at around 2500 rpm, and I get around 15-20 mpg. I think the t56 is great, but I would go with a rear higher than 3.54 if I used it. ------------------ Long '75 JTR mounted waiting a new engine! http://www.geocities.com/mandryd/v8z/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 This is my .02c's; it really is a personal choice. I personally enjoy shifting gears & when driving my bro's Mitsu VR4 & shifting into 6spd on a roadtrip while watching those rpm's drop substantially......is just too cool! There is nothing like the feeling of shifting gears on a winding road in a sportscar. However, I literally "HATE" getting stuck in rush hour stop-n-go traffic w/a standard trans. If you're looking for a 200, 700 to match that 383 just make sure they have been rebuilt with performance in mind. A stock 200 or 700 cant keep up w/the torque of a performance engine forever before it begins slipping. To beef up a 200/700 to match a stock T-56 is gonna cost you w/the 200 being a less likely candidate for an all out street/strip machine: unless you are edumacated in the rebuilding of Auto Transmissions then you can do the work yourself. That's my .02c's worth. Kevin, (Yes,Still an Inliner) [This message has been edited by Kevin Shasteen (edited March 16, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Fastzdriver: Thanks for the reply but i am a little curious as to if anyone here has used both and can really tell me some pros and cons of the 2. i know both are excellent transmissions but i am concerned as to which would be more worth my while concidering the amount of driving i do. Once again any info would be greatly appreciated. thanks [This message has been edited by Fastzdriver (edited March 16, 2001).] What kind of driving? If vast majority highway AND in good/dry weather I'd go T56. I run a 700R4 and contrary to what many say I row my own all the time. It's been built up and I run a Hammer shifter and you can't shift your stick as quick as this setup. It's not ideal for the road racing I've done and v. much enjoy but still a lot of fun. I drive a LOT in commuter type traffic previously for my work and recently for school and would go nuts with a T56 or any stick. Not just due to traffic, I can't picture (if anyone can prove this otherwise I'd love to know about it) driving my build safely in our v. rainy pacific nw weather 365/yr with a stick. Pulling away from lights/shifts etc during this weather seem like a tall order. Maybe I'm wrong but my auto seems to allow me great range in feathering my throttle coming in on launch/gear changes/cornering/engine braking can be practically eliminated reducing that 'safety' hindrance as well in minimal traction moments. I've raced quite a few in sticks with anything from crap tires to good rain tires and have always been able to put it down better on the street in questionable conditions. You can have a lot of fun with a 700R4 done right. You should get 20mpg on a well built non-wild motor and 700R4 and 3.7 gears. I get 20mpg highway with my setup in my heavier (3100 lbs loaded with me and 7/8's fuel) 280zx with a roller 350/ZZ4 cam (1.6 intake/1.52 exhaust) 64cc rpm heads/vic. Jr/performer 600cfm carb for an eg. I'm turning 3000rpm at 80mph from memory on 245/45/16s. With EFI and some exhaust/intake ipmrovements I'd expect mid 20's for mileage. It certainly won't cost you much to run the 700R4 interim if you are decided on the T56. My prior work paid v. well if I could keep going straight thru the day so eating/driving with my auto was ideal as I was fully billable the whole day When you feel like it you row your own, other times just stomp and hang on In town I'd venture you would definitely get better mpg with a 700R4. I cruise around at 30-40mph doing 1000-1200 rpm typically. I have no idea typical rpm's the T56 guys cruise around at (or even what gear for that matter) but I'd assume they're floating 1500rpm minimum....I've been wanting to ask what rpm's/gears they typically use etc as I would like a T56 but am v. concerned I might sacrifice what year round driveability I have with my 700R4 setup. ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pauli Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 eh, in the rain, just start in second. hell, with a v8 and six gears, start in third if you've got a good clutch, a good shifter, good throttle response, and good sense, a manual should give you a good bit more control than an automatic. and with two more gears, you can cruise in that 1000-1200rpm range a greater fraction of the time. if it were me, i'd go for the t56. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 quote: Originally posted by pauli: eh, in the rain, just start in second. hell, with a v8 and six gears, start in third if you've got a good clutch, a good shifter, good throttle response, and good sense, a manual should give you a good bit more control than an automatic. Have you got a T56? If I'm cruising under mild power at 1100 rpm I can 'flash' to serious power easily but if I only want mild/smooth power it's easy to modulate given the torque convertor. I guess I have little knowledge of what it's like to drive a V8Z with a stick at 1100rpm and know what throttle response is like. If I need a jab for a lane position it's easy or if I need to modulate v. carefully while hydroplaning at 75mph (3 major times on Wednesday in a major downpour, albeit road is signed at 50mph) I feel comfortable doing it. ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastzdriver Posted March 17, 2001 Author Share Posted March 17, 2001 Thanks for the reply but i am a little curious as to if anyone here has used both and can really tell me some pros and cons of the 2. i know both are excellent transmissions but i am concerned as to which would be more worth my while concidering the amount of driving i do. Once again any info would be greatly appreciated. thanks [This message has been edited by Fastzdriver (edited March 16, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pauli Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 no t56 here, i'm still driving my 4cyl hardbody i've just never found automatics very responsive. granted, i'm used to weak engines with tc's that stall in the mid 2k's, but still i've never ridden in an automatic equipped car that felt right to me. particularly right off the line, which is a big issue in the rain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 I'll agree w/the sensation of "Non-Responsiveness from an automatic. I've only had two cars w/auto's all the rest have been standards. Maybe its just something you have to enjoy (Personal Preferance!) but other than the exception of Stop-n-Go Rush Hour....I will always prefer a standard; even if it is raining/I've never had problems in the rain/snow or ice. Ahhh, the age old argument Auto -vs- Standard; it really is a personal choice & neither should be ruled out until you have tried both. Until you have tried both you will never know which you prefer! Auto -vs- Standard makes for some friendly discusions but can only be decided by what purpose the car is going to be driven & the personal abilities/preferances of the driver. There is no right or wrong. Kevin, (Yes,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 You can't compare any OEM automatic setups to a built auto V8Z setup. OEM automatics are like OEM 70's smogged V8's. Doggone slow and only good at getting from A-B with no fun in between. A proper built auto will snap you in a flash and shift faster than you can even think of grabbing that $100 on the dash. I do prefer stick's but it's just so suitable for my app. The auto can 'unlock' instant and no brake hp copmared to that lockup you can get at rear wheels in a stick under poor/sudden traction loss if you lift. I drove my stick thru the Edmonton icey/snowy winters fine but know it would be totally different now with this setup. If you ever have a chance to drive a built auto do take it. The major difference IMO b/t stick/built auto is you can't match revs the same on downshifts. But I can grab a lower gear at will/in a flash on the roadcourse with my right toe if need be or feather it in on corner apex. I still feel sticks are best overall but many who've ridden with me have had their eyes opened at what an auto can be like Just wanted to keep the orange orange and the apple a real apple ------------------ Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 I'll pipe up being a stick fan who's owned a car with a built automatic. The auto I had was a TH350 in a Vega. Short wheelbase like the Z with a somewhat healthy 350 that had really bad oil pressure Anyway, it had a ratchet shifter and DOT dirt track tires on the back in a 4.56 geared 9inch. If I wanted to really dog it I'd ratchet it down to first, nail the gas hard and when it sounded as if was coming through the hood slap the shifter hard. It would then click the next gear instantly churn the tires a split second, bite, and haul a$$! Same with 3rd gear - it was instant! Driving in drive it would shift opn it's own just fine depending upon how much gas I gave it. I could downshift it at will on the street for engine braking. If this is the sort of automatic you're considering for the street it's certainly competition for a stick! On the strip it ought to be a little better even with the additional drivetrain losses as shifting is nearly instant. I'm not sure why that trans didn't turn me away from sticks completely, probably because I can modulate downshifts a little better on offramps etc. It really was a sweet trans and I was truly STUPID to sell that car! Vega GTs are tough to find and while that one needed a motor I was really dumb to dump it. If I knew then what I know now that would be one really cool car to have. I think the new owner ended up really screwing it up - nasty motor +NOS and no subframes really hurts the unibody... Lastly, how many of us with T56s are really able to use our 6th gear? I know Mikelly had trouble using his and I'm hoping my cam is mild enough to use mine. With really only a 3.7 posi being used here abouts it could be tough getting to use that second overdrive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastzdriver Posted March 18, 2001 Author Share Posted March 18, 2001 First of all i want to thank you all for the responce on this issue.. But back to buisness. A few of you mentioned runs at the drag strip... the car isnt going to be used for that at all. and as far as off the line once i am used to any manual transmission i am a demon as far as fast shifting goes as well as driving a car to its full potential. Be it a V-8 Z or a wimpy toyota 4 cyl pu truck. My thing is this. As my name implies i like to drive fast And as i stated i drive alot on the highway. Rain and a manual transmission doesnt bother me. I am just curious as to the T-56 cruising potential on a little over stock hp sbc 350. like 350-400 hp no more. I dont plan on going for any type of high rpm band hp. just a fair range from about 1000 up to say 5500-6500. Its just that the .50 final ratio of a 94 and up F series T-56 sounds very appealing when you consider the type and amount of driving i do. Your opinions regarding it in this aspect will be more than appreciated. I have for the most part made up my mind but the more info i have the better so as that i can make the most educated and researched decision possible. once again i thank you all for you responces and look forward to more. [This message has been edited by Fastzdriver (edited March 17, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 About the only issue is the 6th gear with the 3.54 ratio. With a stock diameter tire (24.75") in 6th gear the motor will be turning 1500 rpm at 62 mph. Even that's not an issue for a 383 thats "only" putting out 350-400 hp, as the low rpm torque of that motor will be 400+ ft lbs in the 2000-4000 prm range. Should be a nice setup! I say go for the stick, you should have NO problems cruising in 6th with the 3.545:1 gears. ------------------ Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project pparaska@home.com Pete's V8 Datsun 240Z Pages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastzdriver Posted March 18, 2001 Author Share Posted March 18, 2001 Thanks for the input Pete i was kinda awaiting to hear from you.. By the way Kick ass car you've got going there Thanks again. [This message has been edited by Fastzdriver (edited March 18, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Hello there, I can say that I had a r4, and it was a good tranny, but I just don't like autos. I always felt I wasn't in control. I can slam through the gears in the stick. I am currently putting a t56 in my car. I'm going to be pushing 400 hp, since I"m also getting some new heads. I'll let you know how it works. I should have it on the road later this week. I would go for a stick if I were you due to the high amount of high way driving you do. When I had the auto, everytime I wanted to go, it dropped a gear, and just screamed, it was nice, but it didnt' just have the pull Like I think the standard will. I have driven both auto and stick stock z's, and the stick stock are by far better then the auto.(I had a auto my bro has a stick). Just my .02 sean ps fastdriver, where are you getting your lsd for your r200? I'm looking for one. Thanks for the info. sean ------------------ "I feel the need, the need for speed!!" "Don't hate the player, hate the game!" [This message has been edited by ellobo97 (edited March 18, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastzdriver Posted March 19, 2001 Author Share Posted March 19, 2001 As far as where i am getting the LSD i plan on pulling one from a 1st generation 300ZX. There is a junkyard about and hour from me that specializes in nothing but z parts and the owner Barry is a fairly decent guy who you can dicker with if you know your parts. i should be able to get one for probably 200-300. ------------------ Have you had your Z-8 today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Fastzdriver, thanks for the compliment on my car! BTW, where are you located? Sounds like maybe Fredricksburg or Springfield would be a good place for the MD/VA crowd to meet? Manual vs. Auto: Since you're not drag racing, and hopefully don't mind using a clutch in any traffic you encounter, I can't see a reason for an auto in your application. Those two reasons are the only reason I'd go with an auto: wanted consistent drag racing results, or sat in alot of traffic. But then again, I commuted around the NW portion of the Washington DC beltway for over ten years in cars with manual transmissions exclusively. Sure, it got tiring, and I went through a clutch master cylinder and clutch pedal pad at 70000 miles, but what the hey, I don't like Autos... The reason being is that I like a SOLID connection between the crank and the tranny WHEN I want it. The even minor slushiness of the new auto trannies drives me nuts. If I want slipage, I'll use the clutch pedal, thank you. I will concede that a fully manual valve body and very low stall converter with a good shifter would be better. Actually, I designed (on paper and built a mockup) an H pattern (like a 5 spd manual trans) shifter for an automatic. I don't think it would be that hard to do. I was considering this for the Z at one time with a fully manual valve body. That was 12 years ago, so it's fuzzy how that worked. Just my warped point of view, ------------------ Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project pparaska@home.com Pete's V8 Datsun 240Z Pages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastzdriver Posted March 19, 2001 Author Share Posted March 19, 2001 Once again thanks for the input Pete. And i have for the most part got my mind set on the T-56 now. As far as East Coast V-8 Z's meeting up i think i would be great. Even though rest assured mine wont be done anytime soon i would surely drive a few hours to see come awsome customized Z's. Also curious as to what the different gear ratios on the 1st generation 300ZX LSD's came in. If anyone knows please post them or possible a link to them. Once again everyone you input has been a great help ------------------ Have you had your Z-8 today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastzdriver Posted March 19, 2001 Author Share Posted March 19, 2001 Do you think the 3.7 lsd will be a good match to the T-56? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Fastzdriver, What is the name of the Z wrecking yard you are referring to? Where is it located? I am in Fredericksburg, along with Mike Kelly, and it sounds like a cool place to check out. Thanks, Chris P.S. I vote for the T56!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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