Guest ProdigyMS Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Hey everyone, I'm looking to build up an engine that will be put in most likely a Chevelle. I'm kinda new to engines and am not sure what all will be replaced and what parts are compatible with each part. I heard that if I replace the rocker arms I need to replace the cam as well because they work together, not sure if that's true, which I am wanting to find out. The engine will be a SBC 350 out of a '71 Chevelle. What I am thinking about buying for it: Stroker Kit: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SB-Chevy-383-stroker-kit-10-9-Pistons-Eagle-KB-6-rods_W0QQitemZ200108029449QQihZ010QQcategoryZ33620QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Heads: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1∂=DRT%2D10811122&N=700+4294925232+4294838998+4294867081+115&autoview=sku Cam, Comp Cam 252H High Energy Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft (Motor already has this in it, was planning on keeping it): http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_746636_-1_10707 Carb (Have one of these already, but it does have an adjustable float) http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HLY-0-80457S Intake Manifold, Edelbrock Performer RPM: http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_745137_-1_11937 Is there anything else I should replace (Rocker Arms, Lifters, etc...)? Will these parts work together (Will I need different pushrods with this head?)? I'm trying to get a list of everything I need before I start buying parts to replace and then later on find out that parts are incompatible with each other. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Those are relatively large heads. And that is a pretty small cam. If you're going to use that cam I would think you would want some heads with smaller runners. Right around 200cc. Now if you want those heads you will benefit greatly from a larger cam. What do you want to do with the vehicle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Actually that cam has to go. Flat-tappet cams can be had for around $100 and if you're already planning on a stroker kit and heads the cam is what needs to be changed. The XE250 puts you at a little more torque but cuts you down to about 325hp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProdigyMS Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 It will mostly be used as a weekend warrior. Probably very little racing (might take it to the drag strip every now and then, depends how I like it). What cam would you recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 "What cam would you recommend?" the cams a TOTAL mismatch, to the heads as mentioned, what transmission , stall speed?and rear gear ratio does the car have? those heads will work great with a reasonably wild cam PROVIDED the other components match but youll be far better off with these heads and this cam http://www.airflowresearch.com/195sbc_sh.php yes IM well aware the aluminum AFR heads cost aprox $1450 but they will MAKE a HUGE DIFFERANCE in the performance http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&lvl=2&prt=5&Vehicle_Type=Auto&Cylinders=8&Engine_Make=CHEVROLET&Year=1969&Engine_Size=262-400%20C.I.&partNumber=110591&partType=camshaft matched to a manual trans or auto with a 3000rpm stall converter and 4.11 rear gears, especially if its an overdrive trans like a 200R or 4L80E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Well, In my 383 (that also has Dart Iron Eagle heads except they're 215cc) I have an SLP 51010 which is a little under cammed. PERSONALLY I would have put a Comp XR282 and at the time I thought the SLP cam was about the same (as a 276hr) but come to find out with the valve openings and closings it's really not. Now these are roller cams and you have a flat-tappet of course. IF I WERE YOU I would retro-fit a roller cam and run an XR282, but I tend to favor smaller cams than most. Here's my SLP cam specs: dur @ .050 - 224/232 1.5 Rocker - .490/.510 1.6 Rocker - .522/.544 Lobe Sep - 112deg I think the conventional duration would be something like 280/284 which if you read between the lines it spends a large amount of time under .050 lift and that's kind of uh.. unigue. Grumpy likes crane cams but I couldn't really tell you why. Here's a good thread and there are tons more from grumpyvette if you'd like a good read: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=121789&highlight=383+cam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corzette Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Well, In my 383 (that also has Dart Iron Eagle heads except they're 215cc) I have an SLP 51010 which is a little under cammed. PERSONALLY I would have put a Comp XR282 and at the time I thought the SLP cam was about the same (as a 276hr) but come to find out with the valve openings and closings it's really not. Now these are roller cams and you have a flat-tappet of course. IF I WERE YOU I would retro-fit a roller cam and run an XR282, but I tend to favor smaller cams than most. Here's my SLP cam specs: dur @ .050 - 224/232 1.5 Rocker - .490/.510 1.6 Rocker - .522/.544 Lobe Sep - 112deg I think the conventional duration would be something like 280/284 which if you read between the lines it spends a large amount of time under .050 lift and that's kind of uh.. unigue. Grumpy likes crane cams but I couldn't really tell you why. Here's a good thread and there are tons more from grumpyvette if you'd like a good read: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=121789&highlight=383+cam I run the XR282 with the AFR 190s and it is just awesome. However I have a 350 40 over. ZFAN was running the next size up cam in his car 383 I think a XR288? He said he likes it but wants to go a little bigger. The 282 is a good cam but I would think the 288 would be better with a 370 rear and 3000+ stall. I run a 3500 with auto 700R5 and 354 rear gears. Ive tried 411s and 370 as well...Cant beat the AFRS IMHO. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Grumpy beat me to it and I didn't even notice at the time... Corzette, how did you decide on that cam? Edit: PMS, the AFR's would be better of course but that's a pretty good deal for those heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProdigyMS Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 I believe the transmission is a stock 4 speed automatic out of a Chevelle. Not sure on the gears or stall speed yet. I'm wanting to keep the heads under $800 for the pair, which is kinda why I chose those. How would I go about retro-fitting a roller cam? How about using a XE284H Flat tappet cam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 if you do only one mod GET THE BETTER HEADS and youll NEVER BE SORRY keep in mind the reason those IRON EAGLE heads are on sale is they are being phased out as the newer PLATINUM IRON EAGLE DART HEADS replaced that design AND the 230cc size is a slow mover, in that only a really radical race motor can effectively use that port cross sectional area and only at high rpms and large displacements, below about 5000rpm on a 350-383 they will generally be less efficient than a 190cc-215cc port Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProdigyMS Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 How well would these work then? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DART-Chevy-Heads-SBC-350-215cc-49cc-2-05-1-60-Angled_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33617QQihZ007QQitemZ170111347178QQrdZ1 I would go with the AFR Heads but I just can't spend that much at once. Plus my dad doesn't think I would need heads that expensive just for a street machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/crc.htm 49CC combustion chambers???? the first heads you sellected had 72cc chambers, on a stroker kit you listed with the 5cc flat top pistons that kit has , that will give a 13.4:1 cpr with the correct quench in the .042 range with a .o21 thick head gasket on most blocks, it will NEVER run on pump gas without detonation problems, go to a rediculus .040 thick head gasket and it will still detonate at 12.7:1 cpr but with no quench it will be just as bad at that lower cpr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 http://www.adperformance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_99_147&products_id=547 $999 http://www.adperformance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_99_147&products_id=547 read thru http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/383ci_chevy_small_block_build/index.html http://www.rustpuppy.org/chp/Welcome.html http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0306_mustang_head_swap/index1.html http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/97538_small_block_cylinder_heads_basics/index.html notice the better combos ALL require decent heads http://www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos1.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProdigyMS Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 Oops, didn't realize those were only 49CC Combustion Chambers. The trick flow 23 Degree heads don't seem bad at all. WHat combustion chamber volume should I use? What type of pistons should I look for in a stroker kit that I can use pump gas on? I chose that kit mainly because of the 6" rods, which I hear will allow your motor to last longer (no knockin') and give it a little bit more power, most other kits in my price range were 5.7" rods. Thanks a lot for the help so far guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 TFS-30400013 ID ask them a few questions first but the 72cc combustion chamber head looks good, but ask questions before spending your cash as to what 72cc head and spring combo works with flat tappet hydrolic lifters the 6" rods are fine but don,t overlook the 5.7 the differance is very minor, the main thing you want is an INTERNALLY ballanced assembly with 7/16" ARP rod bolts if you can get it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 The only hurdle in retrofitting roller lifters on a non-roller block is keeping them from turning and wiping out the cam. Turning meaning instead of the roller rolling on the cam it turns sideways and the side of the roller F'ing everything up. For the retrofit rollers you have the connectors as you see between the two. On a block with a factory roller setup you have retainers and a spider tray to hold the retainers down, the lifters are flat where they fit into the retainers (which keeps them straight): i'm taggin out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProdigyMS Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 I sent them an e-mail. I found a couple internally balanced assemblies, not sure if they have the 7/16" ARP bolts though. I'm not sure if they would work well with this build. Do I need a flat, dished or domed piston to get the right compression ratio for pump gas? http://www.adperformance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71_233&products_id=763 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Eagle-383-Stroker-Kit-Crank-Pistons-INTERNAL-Balanced_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33616QQihZ017QQitemZ270118463785QQrdZ1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 Conventional wisdom would suggest you get forged pistons right about now. Blah blah they're cheap insurance blah blah. They're probably around $400 and you will appreciate them if you ever detonate. Hyperucrackedit pistons will shatter at the thought of detonation, probably go through your whole engine and then bye bye whole engine. People still get by with using them all the time... Just something you should know before you hit the buy it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProdigyMS Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 Oh I am no way close to hitting buy it now. I have a ton of research to do still. Which I am trying to do right now (Figuring out everything I need in order for the engine to work properly). Thanks for the heads up, I'll look for forged pistons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/131229/ http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/92966/ read thru these (above) as to your compression ratio, you need to figure that with the components youll use, keep in mind most decks are about .023 over stock minimum deck and youll want a .038-.043 quench so youll want a .015-.021 thick head gasket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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