Guest Anonymous Posted March 25, 2001 Share Posted March 25, 2001 Can someone tell me if there is a difference between the PCM in say, an automatic 94 Camaro and one with a 6-speed, other than programming? I have one from an automatic, but I'm going to use a T-56 and I need to know whether I need to get another one, or just reprogram the one I have. Thanks, WoW, what a great resource this place is!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno74Z Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 OldZdog, To my knowledge the ECM from an automatic car can be used on a car with a manual T56. However, I would recommend talking with this guy about it. His name is Ken Kelly (lots of very knowledgeable Kelly's on this board ) and his e-mail address is: PCMdoc@surfree.com He can also reprogram the ECM for you and eliminate VATS, eliminate any pollution controls, and adjust for wheel size and rear end ratio etc. The one main item that the computer controls for both cars either manual or automatic are shift points and when to shift in the case of the manual tranny. On the automatic tranny the shift points are (to my best knowledge) controlled by the computer. On the standard T56 tranny the famous 1st to 4th is forced on the driver if his foot isn't into the gas. Naturally, for F body owners one can make or buy a skip shift to eliminate the 1st to 4th garbage and not throw a computer error. For the HybridZ application I'm just going to have the computer reprogrammed and have all the nonessential controls eliminated. One company that actually sells software for the do-it -yourselfer is http://www.lt1.net/editor/ Lots of stuff at this web site and if you good at electronics and programming this might be your ticket down the road. What I'm going to do is purchase a "spare" ECM for my experimentation. One can usually get a used ECM for $100 or so and if I ruin it well I still have the primary unit that was professionally done. Down the road, I plan on taking my LT1 to the LT4 level and this will require a major reprogramming of the ECM. Danno74Z [This message has been edited by Danno74Z (edited March 25, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 I just did this with my Z. I have a 93 Lt-1 and had a 700-R. Sold it to Chris on this board. Went wiht a T-56 and kept the computer, just had a new chip burned. I know you can't replace the chip but should be able to reprogram. The only hook up I used on the T-56 was for the vss. Connector was different and had to get it from chevy dealer. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Like I said before- "WoW, what a great resource this place is!! Thanks guys, I think I will eventually mess around with the programming, but for right now it's nice to have a recommended resource. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Okay; those of you who graduated from the John Wayne School of Hard Knocks/LT1-TPI 101 class.....I'm glad this came up as I too have been contemplating using the exact engine & bought a book that explains how to diagnose problems w/this set up as they arise. However, the book gives failure codes and diagnostic flow charts for the engine as it sits in it's original box (the F-body/Y-Body) & not a Hybrid skin. My question to the forum is this: There are three categories that the book states any complaint falls into: 1) Steady "Service Engine Soon" light on 2) Driveablity problems 3) Eng.Cranks but wont Start I'm more concerned w/the 1st problem; once you've transplanted the eng/trans when there is a failure that concers the Serv.Eng.Soon light the "Z" light isng going to be hooked to the computer....? How do you diagnose this? Do you just test each component or do you test each pin on the ECM till you find the prob/what gadgets are out there that are most efficient at pulling codes from the ECM(?). Am I making a mountain out of a mole-hill? Not usually an EFI guy but seriously liking the TPI-LT1! Thanks for any input. Kevin, (Yes,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno74Z Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Oldzdog, I dug up a little more information for you. and it comes from Fuel Injection Specialties of TX. http://www.fuelinjection.com/lt1lt4.html "FIS can build harnesses and furnish a ECM or PCM for virtually any LT1 / LT4 / LS1 transmission combination. The Vehicle Anti-Theft System (VATS) module used with the pass-key system can be deleted from all systems thru 95. The module must be installed on all Sequential Port Injection Systems (96 +). It is good to note that the 94 + PCM's can be reprogramed. This allows use of a PCM that was previously installed in a vehicle with a electronic transmission to be reprogramed for use with a standard transmission or any of the earlier automatic transmissions. Similarly, a standard shift unit can be reprogramed for use with a 4L60E transmission or any of the earlier automatics. FIS can reprogram these PCM's. Kevin, In regards to your question, if you did trip a few nonessential codes I don't think it would matter in the slightest to the computer. Again, only the nonessential sensors here and those are the ones I will delete (have done) form the ECM. Hopefully, you can get the diagnostic port from the F body donor vehicle. Depending on the year you can purchase scanning tools that plug into this port and capture the codes that have been tripped or sensed by the computer. Granted our Z's don't have a check engine service light but I'm sure with the correct schematics you could install one, which would be very cool. As a side note, Painless Wiring just released a new engine wire harness for the later model (94-95) LT1 engine - LT-1 Harness #60502. I don't have much information on this new product but a fact sheet is forthcoming. What I have read is that it has a built in VATS bypass module and seven circuit fuse block with ignition hot relays. This would definitely be the Cadillac (costly) of wiring for the LT1 but it would simplify one hornet's nest. I hope this info. helps and if I'm wrong please let me know. Danno74Z [This message has been edited by Danno74Z (edited March 25, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Locutus Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 I am going with Fuel Injection Specialties as well to get my wiring harness. They are custom made and you can tell them what you are doing and what you want. I also found thier prices to be better than painless, and they are very knowledgable. PS Though I am just going to TPI not a full LT1, I think much of the same still applies. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Thanks for the Info Danno. Kevin, (Yes,Still a "Non-TPI/LT1" Inliner) [This message has been edited by Kevin Shasteen (edited March 26, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 i dont have lt1 in my z but i am installing in the garage for a friend into a 66nova ss.the oem harness has MANY wires and ecm even controls a/c clutch cycling.if you can afford it get an aftermarkit harness-the install will turn out cleaner and be easier to trouble shoot.there are a few different people around that can reprogram ecm-tell them what parts of smog system you deleted(egr,air pump,vats)and they should be able to make run with no trouble codes.if you short the upper right hand pins on diagnstic plug the check engine light will flash the codes or you can get a cheap code reader at auto parts store.the aftermarkit harnesses should have a diagnostic port and check engine light wiring included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 If you poke around the LT1 Edit site you'll find FREE software to monitor th eengine, check codes, and I thinkt o even clear the codes. However only the pay version will actually data log for you and you WILL need an ADL cable. I've said it before but I'll say it again - darned tempting to just hookup a GM ECU to an EFI setup and use some of this software to program it foregoing an "aftermarket" ECU! It's powerful enough and MASS AIR - that's a big advantage IMO as it no longer has to infer volume of air. I'm just not sure how difficult it would be to program for say a converted carb intake Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 quote: Originally posted by BLKMGK: ...pay version will actually data log...B] What do you mean "Pay Version"? Kevin, (Yes,Still an "ignorant" Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno74Z Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Kevin, The LT1 edit software is not free. In order to receive 1 copy you must send them a download of your ECM. Each computer must have a unique serial number or vin # burned into it by GM(I'm gussing here). Once the software folks get this info that you provide they make a corresponding copy of the edit program that can only be used with that ECM. Look at it as a door key. Naturally, this prevents a single copy being pirated and distributed. As BLKMGK said in his post the copy you receive from Carputing will cost $150-$200 depending on the version you choose and is locked to one ECM. Like I mentioned in my post I'm going to buy a spare ECM so I need to pay an additional $50.00 only to unlock it. The LT1 edit software will allow you to datalog and change or delete anything so if your not careful you could trash the ECM. NOT GOOD! Danno74Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Locutus Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 I read that to mean it will only work with one type of ECM. As you know they changed ECMs like most of us change underwear. Every one of them has a different data stream. I think what they do is custom tailor each copy for a specific data stream so if you change ECM and use one of a different type then it will not work, but as long as you use ECMs that match numbers you should be fine. Mike Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno74Z Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Mike, Below, is right off of Carputing's web page: "This is a question we have been asked, and have struggled with, and in order to be fair to the people who are actually purchasing the software and supporting the product, we are introducing a level of copy protection. The standard packages will work with a single car's computer only. We have the capability to do a limited number of PCM's in one package, so if you have multiple PCM's that you use, that is possible. You will need to supply a flash memory dump of the PCM(s) at the time of your order of the software. How do you get that? Once you have your cable (ordered separately), you can run our PCMread, which will extract the flash file from the PCM. You can then send your file via email (and order, via snail mail) to Ken at Cyber Solutions, Inc. or Dave at Carputing LLC." I looked at some of the introductory screens and there is a vin number on the screen so there is definitely checking going on. From the programming page: At this point, once you select the Action... Connect buttons, the software will check the car's battery voltage to ensure there won't be a problem with it, and it will check the VIN of the PCM in the car you're trying to program. If it doesn't match the licensed VIN for the software, the software will halt. If everything's OK, you'll hear the cooling fans come on, and you'll see the following informational dialog box:" Reading through some of the introductory material the LT1 edit software will work on 1994-1995 ECM only - ODBI. They also have a program for ODBII but I haven't looked at it yet. Prior to 1994 GM used removable proms vs. flash memory in their later ECM's. (Talking F bodies - don't know about products). Danno74Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Ummm actually no There's a FREE software package on their site for reading the ADL stream, looking for error codes, and i think also dumping the ECM. The PAY version of that software allows datalogging. This is separate from the LT1 Edit software although it probably datalogs too. As for their changing ECMs often, true to a point. The LT1 Edit software ONLY works on a limited range of computers. That's okay though as it seems to me that computer could certainly be used in many apps. How much do those puppies run used? Anyone here using the LT1 Edit software yet? I'm VERY tempted to get it for our Impalla SS but I'd not want to change anything (except one annoying shift issue that Impallas have!). However if I was going to try and use this for my 383 then it would make sense. Just need to figure out what an ECM, wiring harness, and sensors will cost vs an off the shelf programmable EFI setup. The fact that this one is MAF is a plus in my book. TECs can be MAF though too I believe. No wideband O2 on the LT1 but I think it's full sequential.... Guess I'll have to do some research on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MYRON Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 I am doing the LT1 swap as well.. check outthis sight, they have all the info and cool stuff that you can think of! www.hotrodlane.cc Myron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Hrm, how much do these ECUs run? I've seen aftermarket harnesses in the several hundred dollar range. Add on an aftermarket MAF for about $250. Water temp, intake temp, TP sensor, O2s. What else? I'm really wondering how well this would work in place of some of th ereally expensive aftermarket jobs. Need to hunt down a forum where this software is being talked about. I seem to recall a forum dedicated to it out there somewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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