Gareth Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Hello team HybridZ, sorry if this thread is in the wrong place - I didn't know wether to put it here or in the Nissan RB forum. I hope it won't be a problem that I started it in the Toyota section... After reading this forum for a while, I've decided to create my own Hybrid Z. The project is scheduled for the next few years, because the Z won't be my daily driver, and I would like to drive it with the stock L24 for a while. I am considering four different motors to swap: - Nissan RB25DET - Nissan RB26DETT - Toyota 1JZ-GTE - Toyota 2JZ-GTE They are all high-tech inline sixes, and I don't really care what badge they carry on the valve cover. I know a few people who can help me with the swap. I don't want a V8, because I'd have trouble sourcing parts from the US (there are shops with RB parts in UK and Sweden). Even tough they are quite similar to each other, I'm biased towards the 2JZ. It is possible to order stock replacement parts through a Toyota dealership (and not a racing parts dealer, which means $ savings), it was available in some Toyota (Supra) and Lexus (IS300, GS300) models, it is almost bulletproof from the factory, and there are a few built 2JZ's an people who have experience with them in Europe. Non-VVTi GEs are dirt cheap - no one buys them with performance in mind, in contrast with the ever-popular GTE. Plus, Toyota engines have turbos on the right side, which should be a helping factor in a LHD car like mine. Considering the fact that both RBs and the 1JZ weren't available in Europe and the info I provided above, it seems to me that the 2JZ is a better choice than anything else. But, as usual, I would like to be 100% sure - is it more difficult than the RB swap, and (in general) is it worth the effort? If I understood correctly, both the RB and the JZ require custom engine and transmission mounts, rear sump oil pans, custom driveshaft, strenghened rear end (300ZX R230?), custom wiring harness and a whole lot details that I couldn't remember - did I forget anything? Please, help me create my own Hybrid Z! Any input would be really appreciated. Tony P.S. - Sorry for my English, I hope the post was understandable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oatmilk Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Both conversions will cost a decent sum of money. There is more 240Z/RB installation parts support than 240Z/2jZ which is pretty much all custom. Both engines are great so its could be a toss up there performance wise but you did bring up the possibility of using another 2jz family engine. Taking that into consideration I would give the 2jz a slight edge. N/A 2jz engines are available for pretty low prices compared to 2jzgte's and RB26dett's. Of course you can burn through that savings pretty quickly due to the custom install. If stock parts availability is king, then the 2j wins for me being in the USA. Some will ask what is the purpose of the car. I will ask what do you see yourself driving regardless of purpose? What do you see being under the hood when you day dream about it? If you have a engine in mind then stick with it and move ahead with no need for second guessing. If you don't, then the available 240z/RB install kits would push me into that direction since it possibly can save you some fabrication costs and you get to learn from a lot other people's experiences and know-how. I have found that cost's savings choosing between a less expensive engine (RB25/1JZ) and a more expensive engine (RB26DETT/2JZGTE) can quickly become forgotten about after accumulating parts. Buy the best engine. Not sure if my rambling helps or not but best of luck with with your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Posted June 28, 2007 Author Share Posted June 28, 2007 I'm located in Europe, not the USA... The aftermarket parts support is much stronger for the JZ than for the RB, just because the only RHD market here is the UK. There were only a few hundred 240Zs sold, and not many of them are left (some were imported from the US), and I know of only 2 or 3 240Z in my whole country. There are at least two RB26 powered 240Zs (one in Norway and one in Sweden - hello mull! ), and I suppose that my project would be the first one powered by a Toyota engine. The car will become my weekend fun car. My aim is to create something quite universal in driving terms - a car that I could take to a drag event and to a drift competition the next day. The L series are good engines, but with little or no aftermarket support here, and their aged design, they wouldn't be as flexible as modern Skyline and Supra powerplants. This is where the RB/JZ idea came from. At first I dreamed about a RB26 powered 240Z, but after seeing mull's car I switched my thoughts to the 2JZ, especially considering it's better availability, better aftermarket support and the fact that it should be easier to work on my my country. I know of only 2 tuned RB26s in the whole country, and there are at least 5 heavily tuned and daily driven 2JZs iny my city only. Fortunately, the owner of the shop that will finish my car's mechanicals is an active racer, and with his experience and fabrication skills I'm pretty sure that making a 2JZ work would be possible. I have found that cost's savings choosing between a less expensive engine (RB25/1JZ) and a more expensive engine (RB26DETT/2JZGTE) can quickly become forgotten about after accumulating parts. Buy the best engine. This is why I am biased towards the RB26 and 2JZ rather than the RB25/1JZ idea. Except the lower initial cost, they would be just as troublesome while sourcing parts as their bigger brothers. It seems that 2JZ is a better idea after all... Oh, I almost forgot - Z-Gad, thanks for your email with engine mount pictures and feedback! Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Do not do a VVT-i 2JZ. The VVT-i cars have weaker rods and cam selection is more complex due to the VVT-i stuff on the intake cam. I'd stick to the older motors. GE and GTE motors are much the same. Compression is slightly different but you can stack two headgaskets together to bring it back down on the GE. Headers for the N/A head are harder to find but there are a few companies out there making them - I believe BoostLogic is one of them and the ywill ship overseas. I believe that the GTE motors have oil squirters and the GE do not but I may be mistaken - been awhile. The GE intake is a bit wonky, there are ways of modifying the intake I believe. The distributor is also a PITA, it's possible to convert over to distributorless and dump the nest of wires but you will want an aftermarket EMS. In the end you might find that the GE motor while cheaper ends up costing more when you tweak it. Head flow on the GE is something that is debated too but it's "good enough" to get you plenty of HP - GE Supra have gotten into single digits on the GE motor. Supraforums.com is a good place to find info on both parts and differences on these motors. IMO, if I had a GE motor I'd use it but buying one I'd look for a GTE. Hope that helps! Scotty just posted this in another thread - link to a shop making NA-T parts http://www.boostwerx.com/ so if you're looking at a GE that might be worth checking out. DaveH was the Supra guy who really did good things with the GE motor before eventually switching to a GTE head as I recall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedevan Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 and I suppose that my project would be the first one powered by a Toyota engine. there is a 1jz powered 240z in england i believe, it was built in australia. i am also wondering the same sort of things that you are, y not make the most of living in europe and put in an m3 engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I have that Aussie article digitized and on my WEB server however right now the server isn't online. I will try to correct that in the near future so folks can checkout the article. One of the guys over there was kind enough to scan and send me a CD with the article not once but twice thanks to a teething puppy (lol). Interesting article for sure but some of the design solutions were probably less than optimal and not how folks here have done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TeamNissan Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 That says a lot no? Originally Posted by Zgad 71 240z 2JZGTE TH400 ... (8.915 @ 153.60) http://album.hybridz.org/showgallery...00&ppuser=7981 http://videos.streetfire.net/video/a...e90005d70d.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Posted July 21, 2007 Author Share Posted July 21, 2007 Do not do a VVT-i 2JZ. The VVT-i cars have weaker rods and cam selection is more complex due to the VVT-i stuff on the intake cam. I'd stick to the older motors. GE and GTE motors are much the same. Compression is slightly different but you can stack two headgaskets together to bring it back down on the GE. Headers for the N/A head are harder to find but there are a few companies out there making them - I believe BoostLogic is one of them and the ywill ship overseas. I believe that the GTE motors have oil squirters and the GE do not but I may be mistaken - been awhile. The GE intake is a bit wonky, there are ways of modifying the intake I believe. The distributor is also a PITA, it's possible to convert over to distributorless and dump the nest of wires but you will want an aftermarket EMS. In the end you might find that the GE motor while cheaper ends up costing more when you tweak it. Head flow on the GE is something that is debated too but it's "good enough" to get you plenty of HP - GE Supra have gotten into single digits on the GE motor. Supraforums.com is a good place to find info on both parts and differences on these motors. IMO, if I had a GE motor I'd use it but buying one I'd look for a GTE. Hope that helps! Scotty just posted this in another thread - link to a shop making NA-T parts http://www.boostwerx.com/ so if you're looking at a GE that might be worth checking out. DaveH was the Supra guy who really did good things with the GE motor before eventually switching to a GTE head as I recall... Thanks! After reading your and Bean's post regarding the older GE and GTE "bulletproofness" I'm convinced that I should stick to the non-VVTi motors. There are a couple strong NA-T GEs over here, and nobody really has any issues with them. There are some guys who say that the 1JZ is much better because of having a factory fitted turbo (or two), but the parts availability is scarce (you won't buy a OEM 1JZ timing belt at a Toyota dealership here) and it has 0.5 liter smaller displacement. I thought of a 1JZ head/2JZ block hybrid for a while, but after talking to a guy who built a GT42R-powered, stock-bottomed, non-VVTi GE, I came to a conclusion that anything other than a stock GE or GTE would be nonsense, escpecially with my dream power goal of about 500HP. I've registered on 2JZ Power, Supraforums, Club NA-T and some other boards, because I'll have to read a lot before I even go the project's design phase. There are lots of helpful topics out there, they're just waiting to be read. there is a 1jz powered 240z in england i believe, it was built in australia. i am also wondering the same sort of things that you are, y not make the most of living in europe and put in an m3 engine? I beleive that you're reffering to the burgundy one, am I correct? I must say it's a beautiful car and it goes like stink (I've seen some videos and photos with it), but as you said it was built in Australia. There are already a few hybrid Zs in Europe, but as far as I know none of them was built with a Toyota engine (at least two have RB26s - one in Norway, the other one in Sweden). There were several variants of the M3 engine, with power ratings beginning from 286HP (early M3 E36, 3,0 with 5 speed 'box), and going all the way to 343HP (M3 E46 and late Z3M, 3,2 liter, 6 speed 'box), but even here the parts are expensive, and the engine itself is quite difficult to build (ITBs with a plastic surge tank, engine tilted to the right). It could make a great swap though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Yea its Burgundy and he is a member here. I say do a 2jz, Z-gad has an 8 second, true street car. Tune yours down a bit and you can easily have a 10 second all day every day street car that gets great mpg. Thanks! After reading your and Bean's post regarding the older GE and GTE "bulletproofness" I'm convinced that I should stick to the non-VVTi motors. There are a couple strong NA-T GEs over here, and nobody really has any issues with them. There are some guys who say that the 1JZ is much better because of having a factory fitted turbo (or two), but the parts availability is scarce (you won't buy a OEM 1JZ timing belt at a Toyota dealership here) and it has 0.5 liter smaller displacement. I thought of a 1JZ head/2JZ block hybrid for a while, but after talking to a guy who built a GT42R-powered, stock-bottomed, non-VVTi GE, I came to a conclusion that anything other than a stock GE or GTE would be nonsense, escpecially with my dream power goal of about 500HP. I've registered on 2JZ Power, Supraforums, Club NA-T and some other boards, because I'll have to read a lot before I even go the project's design phase. There are lots of helpful topics out there, they're just waiting to be read. I beleive that you're reffering to the burgundy one, am I correct? I must say it's a beautiful car and it goes like stink (I've seen some videos and photos with it), but as you said it was built in Australia. There are already a few hybrid Zs in Europe, but as far as I know none of them was built with a Toyota engine (at least two have RB26s - one in Norway, the other one in Sweden). There were several variants of the M3 engine, with power ratings beginning from 286HP (early M3 E36, 3,0 with 5 speed 'box), and going all the way to 343HP (M3 E46 and late Z3M, 3,2 liter, 6 speed 'box), but even here the parts are expensive, and the engine itself is quite difficult to build (ITBs with a plastic surge tank, engine tilted to the right). It could make a great swap though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Heh 500HP is pretty simple, well at least on a DynoJet it is. Seriously, I hit that figure and then some on pump gas with a Greddy T78 and no alcohol spray. Given a choice go for the motor with displacement - the 2JZ. The T78 is a 67mm turbo with a BIG exhaust side so boost came on like a truck to the ass. A normal sized 66 to 67mm turbo will give you good driveability and that power or more. I turned high 10s in a heavy Supra on a pump gas tune making no more than 620RWHP - you will fly in a streetable 240Z with that motor in it. Completely stock guts 2JZGTE will last forever at that power level too if tuned well. Stock twins won't get you that power sadly and the manifold weighs a ton anyway, go small single and be happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I have done the swap so here is my opinion. First I would reccommend doing the most powerful varient, just because it is some much work for any of them. So... rb26 vs 2jz Both engines are similar. Both great engines but: 3 liters is nicer than 2.6 for driving off boost and utimately since money is always limiting, the 2JZ-GTE is more durable on stock and aftermarket parts. Now if you can make it AWD then that would make be go RB26. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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