proxlamus© Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 CNG = compressed natural gas PanzerAce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240zwannabe Posted April 16, 2008 Author Share Posted April 16, 2008 So Sparks, What would I need to do to use all this "free" vegetable oil that I can get? Would it be bad to start collecting it in 55 gallon drums until I'm ready to use it? I could fill up my storage space with 1000gallons of the stuff over the next 3-4 months while I'm working out the rest of the details. Regards, Justin no, collecting 55 gallon drums would not be a bad idea. here is the process in which i intend to use http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 So Sparks, What would I need to do to use all this "free" vegetable oil that I can get? Would it be bad to start collecting it in 55 gallon drums until I'm ready to use it? I could fill up my storage space with 1000gallons of the stuff over the next 3-4 months while I'm working out the rest of the details. Regards, Justin If you can get it for free, thats great. I have to pay for it. Anyways, I would suggest building some type of collection device for the cooks to pour the oil into. A 55 gallon drum works great, just get an open top and hinge the lid so they can open it and pour the oil in. Now there are two ways to use wasta veggie oil (wvo) as fuel. You can convert the wvo to biodiesel, or convert the vehicle to run off veggie oil. To make the wvo into biodiesel, you need to filter the oil down to 10 microns at least, dewater the oil, heat it up and add chemicals to create the reaction, let reaction sit then drain glycerin. Then you must take this new fresh biodiesel and wash and then dry it. To run veggie oil without converting the oil, you need a duel tank set up. Filter the oil again down to 10 microns and dewater it. Pour this oil into your veggie oil tank. Start the engine on diesel, let it get to operating temp, throw the switch to the other tank and then you will be runnin on veggie oil. A few miles before your destination switch back to diesel and let it clear the lines. Basically Biodiesel - No modification needed to any diesel engine, you are modifying the veggie oil Straight veggie oil - no modifying the oil, no chemicals, just need to install dual tank set up Anyone looking to get into biodiesel I recommend these two books: From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank - by Josh Tickell Biodiesel Basics and Beyond - by William H. Kemp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 no, collecting 55 gallon drums would not be a bad idea. here is the process in which i intend to use http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html No! Sorry bro that website is very very off! Alot of errors on that site. Many biodiesel boards shoot that site down. Do yourself a favor and read the two books I posted. They will really help you and answer all your questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240zwannabe Posted April 16, 2008 Author Share Posted April 16, 2008 No! Sorry bro that website is very very off! Alot of errors on that site. Many biodiesel boards shoot that site down. Do yourself a favor and read the two books I posted. They will really help you and answer all your questions. well hell, thanks for letting me know! now that you have answered another lingering question i had concerning the dual tank setup i'll probably head that route due to less labor to produce fuel. so, if i installed a 5 gallon racing fuel cell into my hatch and plumbed it for diesel to warm the engine up on and had two switches controlling different pumps for both diesel and oil, would that work? edit: oh and what do you mean by filtering it down to 10 microns? sorry for my ignorance...im 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 I think some of the facts are; 1. you need a two tank system to operate it properly, start on diesel switch to vo, back to diesel before you shut it down. 2. Absolutely won't work in cold weather without a tank heater 3. Several recipies that I've heard of, filtering, mixing 50 gal of vo with 10 gal diesel and 2 gallons of gas, etc. etc. 4. The filtering costs money to do it properly, as does the handling, having storage, etc. If you drive alot you may need to process 200+ gallons a week. 5. Lots of collections of vo. I have a friend that does that and he's at the restaurant every week, hauling it home, pouring it into his drums and then taking the jugs back to the restaurant. Here it's free, but some restaurants have large vats that are full of crap and a mess to filter. I think that the total cost is cheaper than diesel no doubt, but if you figure your time into it, then perhaps not, depends on what your time is valued at IMO. Me, I don't have time or the inclination to mess with it, and I dont' drive that much anymore. Hence I'll build a turbo z with a v8, efi and hope that it'll get 25mpg for my daily driver here in town. Not to mention having alot of excess hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 well hell, thanks for letting me know! now that you have answered another lingering question i had concerning the dual tank setup i'll probably head that route due to less labor to produce fuel. so, if i installed a 5 gallon racing fuel cell into my hatch and plumbed it for diesel to warm the engine up on and had two switches controlling different pumps for both diesel and oil, would that work? That should work fine. Just check your engine oil more often to make sure it doesnt get clouded up. Sometimes the veggie oil slips past the rings and gets into the motor oil, but seems to be a rare phenomenon. The guy that wrote From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank, had the 240z with the LD28 turbo set up, cool car. Anyways I would go the dual tank set up too. Biodiesel produces glycerin and waste water you need to get rid of properly. Plus you have the cost of methanol and your catalyst of choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240zwannabe Posted April 16, 2008 Author Share Posted April 16, 2008 That should work fine. Just check your engine oil more often to make sure it doesnt get clouded up. Sometimes the veggie oil slips past the rings and gets into the motor oil, but seems to be a rare phenomenon. The guy that wrote From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank, had the 240z with the LD28 turbo set up, cool car. Anyways I would go the dual tank set up too. Biodiesel produces glycerin and waste water you need to get rid of properly. Plus you have the cost of methanol and your catalyst of choice. i was aware of the water, glycerin, methanol and catalyst. is that what you ment by filtering to 10 microns? i was also planning on doing a turbo ld28 setup, although i know nothing of the motor it would be nothing to learn it. did that guy ever state in his book anything about his power level with the turbo ld? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 i was aware of the water, glycerin, methanol and catalyst. is that what you ment by filtering to 10 microns? i was also planning on doing a turbo ld28 setup, although i know nothing of the motor it would be nothing to learn it. did that guy ever state in his book anything about his power level with the turbo ld? No not really. By filtering, the wvo needs to be filtered down to 10 microns to remove foreign debris in the oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240zwannabe Posted April 16, 2008 Author Share Posted April 16, 2008 No not really. By filtering, the wvo needs to be filtered down to 10 microns to remove foreign debris in the oil. thats what i asked you in a previous post, what is the filtering process? and how do i know i'm at 10 microns? would this be comparable to dewatering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 thats what i asked you in a previous post, what is the filtering process? and how do i know i'm at 10 microns? would this be comparable to dewatering? Ok. Well the best way to filter the oil is to heat it up, and then pump it to a filter housing. To heat the oil, you can simply buy a drum band heater, and wrap it around a 55 gallon drum. Let the oil heat to 90-100 degrees or so. To filter it, simply buy some filter bags from ebay, might cost your $20 for 15 assorted sizes. To make a cheap filter housing, take a 6 or 8 inch piece of PVC pipem and cut it to 5 or 6 feet. Attach the filter bags to the bottom of the pipe with two hose clamps or so. Pump the oil into the pipe and let it gravity fall through the filter bag. Repeat this with a 50 micron bag, then a 25, and then a 10. Or you could buy a real filter bag housing for about $500 and filter 100 gallons in a minute or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennysgreen280zt Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Sparks, have you guys had any issues with natural rubber seals/hoses? This is an issue ive heard from hanging with the VW diesel crowd. (my daily is an Audi 4000 diesel) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 A L28ET turbo manifold will fit on a LD28 head but.... You do have to slot some of the holes. Read around on that nissandiesel.dydns site. There have been a few turbodiesels done on there. Don't ask for a LD crank on that site though. They call us Z car guys Rapists for stealing "their" cranks...LOL Mind you that a LD28 head weghs as much as or more than an L6 block. I just happen to have a very good LD head and a decent turbo manifold... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Ah yes you need to upgrade to synthetic fuel lines. And i forgot, you do have to have a tank heater for the VO. YOu can switch the the veggie tank until the veggie oil reaches 170 degrees or so. Also Dr. Hunt there are a few studies that show mixing diesel with veggie oil is a bad idea, and if you do, they say never mix more than 20% veggie oil whith diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Ah yes you need to upgrade to synthetic fuel lines. And i forgot, you do have to have a tank heater for the VO. YOu can switch the the veggie tank until the veggie oil reaches 170 degrees or so. Also Dr. Hunt there are a few studies that show mixing diesel with veggie oil is a bad idea, and if you do, they say never mix more than 20% veggie oil whith diesel. Correct, I've never done it, friend of mine uses that recipe, which is 20% diesel. Also if your going to use a tank heater you will also have to have one in your storage tank or you won't be able to pump it out or even flow it out. It apparently gels pretty good in cold weather. On a side note, there is no federal or state tax on biodiesel as of yet. Be looking for that to come to a screeching halt before long. Any alternative fuel will have to, at some point, have taxes added for road repairs or uncle sammy won't be very happy about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Correct, I've never done it, friend of mine uses that recipe, which is 20% diesel. Also if your going to use a tank heater you will also have to have one in your storage tank or you won't be able to pump it out or even flow it out. It apparently gels pretty good in cold weather. On a side note, there is no federal or state tax on biodiesel as of yet. Be looking for that to come to a screeching halt before long. Any alternative fuel will have to, at some point, have taxes added for road repairs or uncle sammy won't be very happy about it. Many states have passed laws exempting biodiesel homebrewers from paying taxes on the fuel. NC has such a law, good for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240zwannabe Posted April 16, 2008 Author Share Posted April 16, 2008 Ah yes you need to upgrade to synthetic fuel lines. And i forgot, you do have to have a tank heater for the VO. YOu can switch the the veggie tank until the veggie oil reaches 170 degrees or so. Also Dr. Hunt there are a few studies that show mixing diesel with veggie oil is a bad idea, and if you do, they say never mix more than 20% veggie oil whith diesel. do you have to have a tank heater even in the summer time? i will be going to the military to fly helicopters before too long and wont drive it then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 do you have to have a tank heater even in the summer time? i will be going to the military to fly helicopters before too long and wont drive it then... Yes, the reason for the tank heater is two fold. To prevent gel ups in the winter, and mainly to raise the veggie oil to the right temp. At room temps, veggie is 14 times more viscous than diesel. By raising the temp to approx. 170 degree it becomes the same viscosity as diesel. Biodiesel reactions do the same thing, reduce the viscoity of oil by stripping it of the glyceride molecues in veggie oil. This guy sells kits and could help you piece one together. http://www.goldenfuelsystems.com or http://www.fryerpower.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 How long can I store the WVO before using it? 3 months, 6 months, 12 months? Regards, Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240zwannabe Posted April 17, 2008 Author Share Posted April 17, 2008 i guess my next question would be...how would you wire the tank heater so oil didnt leak everywhere across the city? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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