EDIS 6 with RB coils????

[dizzle]

Can i use the EDIS 6 module to trigger my factory RB coils? This would be really nice if possible. Just to keep from having to route bulky plug wires in the engine bay...

[datman]

No reason why not but you would need to wire cyl 1 + 6 2 + 5 and 3 + 4 in parrallel. Check the impedance of 2 COP's wired in parallel and compare to the EDIS coil pack.

[dizzle]

They both seem to be the same .8 ohms between 12v feed and trigger wire...

[z-ya]

You also need to know what the coil charge time with two connected in parallel. The EDIS module has a fixed charge time that is calibrated to the EDIS coils. I know people using other coils with EDIS (including myself), but none with two coils in parallel on a singe EDIS driver output. "six pack" coils are actually three coils configured for wasted spark. It may work just fine, or you may have problems with the coils overheating and or the EDIS module overloading.

[dizzle]

Well I got it wired up and going to give it a shot... If my intake plenum was ready it would be ready to fire up here pretty quick... Or at least try to...

 

So if these coils don't work, is there a COP set up the DOES work with EDIS?? I thoughtI read somewhere that the mustang had a COP set up that was EDIS friendly?? I just really dont want plug wires showing on the RB!!

[Matt Cramer]

Well I got it wired up and going to give it a shot... If my intake plenum was ready it would be ready to fire up here pretty quick... Or at least try to...

 

So if these coils don't work, is there a COP set up the DOES work with EDIS?? I thoughtI read somewhere that the mustang had a COP set up that was EDIS friendly?? I just really dont want plug wires showing on the RB!!

 

Yep, late model 4.6 Mustangs have a COP setup that works well with EDIS.

 

http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/how_to_megasquirt_your_ford_mustang.htm

[1 fast z]

Well will any ford coil pack work then? Ford pretty much only used coil packs since 2000. Since the mustang SOHC ones, are short, and have a funny curve in them. The DOHC ones look more better for twin cam engines, rb's, my custom head, etc.

[510rob]

why bother with EDIS at all? Use a few IGBTs or VB921s to run the stock COP coils, knock the gap down to 0.030" or less, and you're good to go!

[z-ya]

Correct me if I am wrong, but EDIS modules have the coil driver built in, so it provides the ground to the coil to fire it.

 

There are two kinds of COPs, one with, and one without the coil driver built in. Any COP without the coil driver built in will work with EDIS. It may not be optimized, and the reliability may not be as good as using a matched coil, but it will work.

 

It is easy to tell if the igniter is built in or not, if there are two wires, no igniter. If there are three or more, then it has the driver built in. Then you need to figure out what wire is what.

 

Pete

[510rob]

Correct me if I am wrong, but EDIS modules have the coil driver built in, so it provides the ground to the coil to fire it.

 

There are two kinds of COPs, one with, and one without the coil driver built in. Any COP without the coil driver built in will work with EDIS. It may not be optimized, and the reliability may not be as good as using a matched coil, but it will work.

 

It is easy to tell if the igniter is built in or not, if there are two wires, no igniter. If there are three or more, then it has the driver built in. Then you need to figure out what wire is what.

 

Pete

 

Pete,

 

I set up an MS system on an RB25DET for a friend, and I used the stock COP coils, controlled by six VB921 chips. The stock COP coils have a three wire connector interface and do not contain anything more than the boring old coils of wire wrapped around an iron core assembly. The factory wiring diagram for the motor I modified shows an external ignitor box used to fire the coils, and that ignitor was certainly in my hands when I cut the wires off it's connector. I hated cutting perfectly good parts off, but it was done in the interest of neatness because the ignitor usually sits at the back end of the valve cover (and apparently "it looks ugly"). The COP coil primary connections are as follows:

* primary supply

* primary "ground" (I use the term "ground" loosely in this case)

* secondary ground

All six of the secondary grounds are tied together in the COP sub-harness, and terminate at a ring terminal attached to one of the bolts retaining the coil cage to the head. Seems rather stupid to separate the grounds, then tie them all together a few inches away, but I'd be the last one to question the reasons for it because I was able to make the motor work fine using that sub-harness.

 

All six of the primary powers are tied together as well. The six primary low-side terminals (primary "ground" for each coil) are separated as you'd expect.

Cylinder 1 (output1) = B/R

Cylinder 5 (output2) = R/Y

Cylinder 3 (output3) = R

Cylinder 6 (output4) = R/L

Cylinder 2 (output5) = R/W

Cylinder 4 (output6) = R/G

+12V Power Supply = W

IGN Coil Ground (A-69) = B

There is also a remote-mounted condensor capacitor on the stock ignition setup. It was quite small, and I had a spare 100uF 400V capacitor lying around so for good measure, I threw that big capacitor into my wiring, connected as close to the coils as electrically possible.

 

All of that gibberish aside, I know there are at least two styles of coils used on the RB25DET motors, and both of the two COP coils I've had in my hands have used a similar three pin primary connector. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the later RB25 NEO engine use some COP assembly with internally-integrated electronic controls, as this seems to be the way most companies went in that era.

 

I see that Delphi are now making COP coils with integrated ion-sensing mechanisms. I can't wait for the trickle-down of that technology!

[z-ya]

Thanks for the detailed write up!

 

The RB26DETT has a coil igniter that mounts on the engine, does RB26DET also have this igniter? I will be working on a RB26DETT installation over the next few months and we plan on using the OEM igniter.

 

The secondary grounds might be for shielding or EMI reduction. It may provide a shield around the coil to minimize electro magnetic interference (EMI).

 

Which outputs are you using in the MS? Are you using "Extra" or MSII code?

 

Pete

[510rob]

Knowing what Nissan are like, I'd assume the ignitor is the exact same part on the 26DETT as the 25DET (and probably the 20DETs and VG30s and who knows what else!)

 

If the pict-o-gram drawings of the coils shown in the factory diagram are accurate, the coils have an isolated secondary (not an autotransformer), and the transformer secondaries (grounds) are brought out to the three pin connectors, summed together in the sub-harness, then terminated at the cast aluminum cage that the coils are bolted to.

 

The rb25det I 'squirted used a V3.0 Motherboard with an MS1 chip running the 029v variant of the extra code. I used the three LED outputs to drive pseudo wasted spark, with the coils paired as doubles (three twins). If you want to run true six coil ignition, you have to use MS1/E code, and even then, you can't use the knock sensor input. For this particular install, the knock sensor was moderately high priority (street car on pump gas), so I decided to use 3 coil trigger outputs, and six VB921s...