Calgary280ZT Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Hey guys. Thanks to Bo, I now have the Wolf V500 installed and mostly tuned (now that I'm back in Calgary, plan to do a little tuning in the next couple of weeks). Here's my problem: at the end of June we're installing a polished and ported Rebello head, Iskey turbo cam, T3/T4 turbo, Supra 440cc injectors, etc. Obviously, Wolf will need to be re-tuned. With Bo's base map I'm confident we can get it running and do some ghetto tuning to the point where it's driveable. But I'm not that technical and I don't feel confident doing any more than that. I'd rather pay somebody to do it right than blow something up (this car is my DD and it makes long distance trips between Calgary and California, so it has to be reliable). Today I called around to some tuning shops in Calgary. Scared the crap out of me! No one has any experience with Wolf...or a turbo-charged L28...but by God everyone of those guys thinks they can tune the car to perfection with no problem. Yikes! Questions: 1) What should I pay for a tune (with or without dyno runs)? I'm being quoted $750-$1,000 and up in Calgary. 2) Is there a shop in California that would have the experience to do the tune at a reasonable price? 3) should I just do the tune myself? Bo says it's easy with a little practice, but I really do worry about blown head gaskets etc. On the other hand, I'm reasonably computer literate and I watched Bo do the initial tune, maybe I could handle it. Anyway, appreciate any advice you guys can provide. Reliability is more important than saving a few bucks, so I don't mind spending to do it right. On the other hand, I don't mind doing something if I think it's within my limited technical capabilities. Markham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughdogz Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I'd say #3 for the following reasons: With the changed Volumetric Efficiency of the engine, you can street tune the fuel map safely below atmospheric. Trust me, it won't blow up even (accidentally) running into 17-18 AFR's (I was hesitant to believe Bo at first, but it's true! ) Next, street tune the fuel map to ~7psi boost, and you're still pretty much in the safe zone... Slowly work your way up to ~12-15 psi boost I think that as long as you don't mess with advancing the timing too much (just keep using Bo's base timing map) you probably won't blow anything up (detonate) creating the fuel map. As TonyD mentioned, you only really need to Dyno tune for high speed. You can datalog up to ~85 MPH (130 KPH) if you find a long, empty stretch of road. Just try to keep an eye on the AFR gauge to make sure you're not running too lean in boost. I'm not sure why many people think the Dyno is so much safer for initial tuning . With a Mustang dyno (versus an inertial dyno) you can have a constant load across RPM ranges. This will help rough out the map in the least amount of time. Once you understand how use the Wolf and Logworks, you'll be able to "talk the talk" and "walk the walk" with the dyno operator and save time ($$$) so they won't have to self-train how to use the Wolf interface. I can send you my Logworks3 template that contains a fuel correction macro and target AFR table. You're on your own for timing tuning. Good Luck! -Hugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgkurz Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I'm not sure why many people think the Dyno is so much safer for initial tuning . With a Mustang dyno (versus an inertial dyno) you can have a constant load across RPM ranges. This will help rough out the map in the least amount of time. Hugh is right on with this recommendation. Tuning for real world loads is always best. The Mustang dyno is one of the better dyno's if you cannot datalog SAFELY on the street. I prefer to use 4th gear when datalogging but the speed at peak RPM is usually way to fast. 3rd gear is good but it's doesn't load the engine as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgary280ZT Posted June 16, 2008 Author Share Posted June 16, 2008 Hugh: great advice, jibes with what Bo has been saying. Guess I should have been listening to him more closely...LOL Yes, please PM me the macro and the timing table if you don't mind. I like the idea of starting off below atmospheric, then bringing boost on slowly. I think I can handle that. And Bo retarded the timing by a couple of degrees on the base map, so I should be all right there. jgkurz: I'm fortunate, our community is about two mintues from the Deerfoot Trail, Calgary's big freeway and we're right at the south end, which means I have about 10 km of recently paved 2-3 lane freeway that the cops don't patrol very often...and I have a Valentine 1 detector. Should be ok for some extended tuning runs. Ok, guys, I'm going to take your (and Bo's) advice and tune this puppy myself. Don't be surprised if I come back with LOTS of questions. I am a complete noob at this stuff and not very technical to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Sheesh, beginning to think that I am chopped liva'.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughdogz Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Sheesh, beginning to think that I am chopped liva'.... :lmao: Chopped fillet mignon? With a bit of Mad Scientist thrown in there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgary280ZT Posted June 17, 2008 Author Share Posted June 17, 2008 Hey Bo, thought you'd show up. Ahhhhh, not chopped liva'....but I was getting panicky again. Until I really get my hands dirty with Wolf I'm gonna feel intimidated. Thought getting a tuner to tune would be a good idea....a couple of phone calls disabused me of that notion. So now I'm back. Are you sure you want me pestering you for advice etc on a regular basis? Stressed out calls in the middle of the night ("How do I change this d*** table????)? LOL BTW, the car is running pretty well. But REALLY needs the last 10% of the tune...runs rich at some points, gas mileage in the city if WAY down...and cost me $65 to fill it last time. Anyhoo, enough meandering for one night. I'll get things set up this week and hopefully have something to report on the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgary280ZT Posted June 17, 2008 Author Share Posted June 17, 2008 Mad engineer...they're all insane. Mostly in a good way, but sometimes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Mark, feel free to give me a call anytime - it's never stopped Hugh. Tuning is an ever evolving process when street tuning. I am STILL tuning my car and I've got well over 30 logs. Logworks in conjunction with Wolf is a great combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgary280ZT Posted June 17, 2008 Author Share Posted June 17, 2008 Don't worry, Bo, you WILL live to regret that invitation. Just ask Jim. LOL That red wire to the fuel pump relay makes him twitch every time he sees it. he's coming over tonight for a bbq with his wife and I would bet good money he'll HAVE to head out to the garage and do something about that wire. hahaha One of the reasons I considered a tuner is because I thought they were expert technicians. My conversations with 2 or 3 changed that opinion in a hurry. At least when it comes to Wolf and L28s. In fairness to them, Calgary is full of Vettes, Porsches, Bimmers, etc and that's where these guys make their living. None of them had heard of Wolf...except for one guy, who thought it was JWT. LOL Anyhoo, since taking the car to a tuning shop is out of the question, then I guess I am the tuner. Better roll up my sleeves and get at it. :0) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby260 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Don't worry, Bo, you WILL live to regret that invitation. Just ask Jim. LOL That red wire to the fuel pump relay makes him twitch every time he sees it. he's coming over tonight for a bbq with his wife and I would bet good money he'll HAVE to head out to the garage and do something about that wire. hahaha One of the reasons I considered a tuner is because I thought they were expert technicians. My conversations with 2 or 3 changed that opinion in a hurry. At least when it comes to Wolf and L28s. In fairness to them, Calgary is full of Vettes, Porsches, Bimmers, etc and that's where these guys make their living. None of them had heard of Wolf...except for one guy, who thought it was JWT. LOL Anyhoo, since taking the car to a tuning shop is out of the question, then I guess I am the tuner. Better roll up my sleeves and get at it. :0) Hey Bud, I'm currently working out Brooks way, but do make it to calgary almost every second weekend. I spent alot of time playing tuner with the V500 on our FSAE car this year. If you run into any issues I would be happy to come help you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgary280ZT Posted June 24, 2008 Author Share Posted June 24, 2008 Hey Kirby, thanks for the offer. I will probably take you up on that. Bo tuned the car pretty well for the current set up and I hope to play with it a bit and at least get a workig knowledge of tuning. What I'm worried about is when we get all the other stuff installed that I mentioned above (Rebello head, T3/T4 etc). Then I'm way beyond stock and that makes me VERY nervous. Can you PM me a cell # or email addy? We should be back up and running by mid-July and if I run into problems I'll give you a shout. And thanks again for your help. As I've discovered, Z owners are a very generous bunch and my car wouldn't be where it is today without the help of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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