icarus Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 hello all, well i have been searching and troubleshooting and researching for weeks now and have finally decided to call for help... the setup: 76' 280z l28et ('83; p90a(converted to solid lifters),CAS in dizzy...pretty stock right now) MS1 PCB3.0 (attempting to run msns-e) GM Air temp sensor stock water temp sensor KA24 TPS msd blaster 2 coil/ stock zxt coil (tried both) ... i think that that is all of the relevant info background on the MS unit: i bought this MS unit lightly used from someone who was running it on their Z as a fuel only B&G software setup. it did not have the high current ignition circuit even installed when i got it. i flashed the unit to MSnS-E, soldered in the bosch BIP373 (alternate for the older VB***), and followed the steps outlined here: http://diyautotune.com/tech_articles/how_to_megasquirt_your_280zx_turbo.htm my laptop seems to be communicating perfectly fine with my MS now here is the problem: i got no spark! the blue led (led17) is flashing for the "spark A" my coil has power (12v from the fuel pump relay) my base timing is set as per moby's instructions: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=88246 spark output IS inverted... what i have tried thus far: i have connected a spark plug directly to the wire that goes from the coil to the dizzy (for testing purposes) i swapped out the original BIP373 for a second one thinking that i had perhaps fried the first/it was defective i have checked and rechecked my solders and cleaned them at one point when i pulled the entire dizzy off to turn/trigger by hand i noted a VERY weak spark that was almost invisible but i could hear the slight crackling when the plug was removed and held against ground... i am just lost, could this be a software setting problem? firmware incompatibility that would run everything perfectly except spark? is my MS board physically setup wrong? what all components need to be in place for the ignition circuit to function? i assume my optical/trigger circuit is working because the sparkA led is flashing (when it should be)..? i will post a couple pics of my board in a bit perhaps something is missing? you all are better at this than i am. i am just lost and getting really discouraged with this, any/all help is much appreciated. thanks for reading, Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icarus Posted July 12, 2008 Author Share Posted July 12, 2008 some pics: NOTE: the BIP373 came with a 330ohm resistor to put in R43, i read in the msmanual that most people jumper r43. i have tried it both ways, in the pic of the backside of the board you will see that it has been jumpered across the leads. oh and YES i used the mica insulator between the BIP373 and the heatsink, and i used some 'arctic silver' i had laying around from my last computer build other than that all i have done to modify the board from the B&G fuel only to Msns-e setup is what i noted above^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zercs280zx Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Icarus, Your Megasquirt board was modified to run FUEL ONLY and was setup for an aftermarket ignition box, such as MSD or Crane, only. I know because I did the mod so that I could run my Crane HI-6 ign box with my MS1 v 3.0 board. I'm not sure if this configuration will allow you to run the CAS and the dizzy. I believe that when your Megasquirt box has been modded like this, only an ignition box like MSD or Crane will accept this signal. That's what is being sent via Spark A and perhaps the dizzy does not recognize it, but you see the LED flashing. I believe that if you want to control Spark or send a signal to the CAS and the dizzy, you would have to reverse the mod and setup Codebase and Output Functions and choose the proper Ignition setup. Here's what the Codebase and Output Functions, in Megatune, look like for FUEL ONLY/Megasquirt does not control Spark: Spark Inverted = YES in Spark Settings and Dwell Duty to Fix - 50% and LED17(D14) to SparkA output. If you want to use the CAS and the dizzy, check in the MSNS manual as to how that configuration should be, and again, I do not think your board is setup correctly. http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra_Ignition_Hardware_Manual.htm#msdout If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Good luck with your project. Eric Spark Output Wiring Diagrams. MSD output wiring diagram for a V3.0 PCB Set Spark Inverted = YES in Spark Settings and Dwell Duty to Fix - 50% and LED17(D14) to SparkA output in Codebase and Output Functions. V3.0 PCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icarus Posted July 13, 2008 Author Share Posted July 13, 2008 hi eric, thanks for the help... yes this was a unit that (when i picked it up off of the previous owner) was setup to run FUEL ONLY with the 'original B&G firmware.' i have ATTEMPTED to convert it to a direct coil driving FUEL AND SPARK setup by following the steps above (/repasted below>) background on the MS unit:i bought this MS unit lightly used from someone who was running it on their Z as a fuel only B&G software setup. it did not have the high current ignition circuit even installed when i got it. i flashed the unit to MSnS-E, soldered in the bosch BIP373 (alternate for the older VB***), and followed the steps outlined here: http://diyautotune.com/tech_articles...80zx_turbo.htm here is how mine is setup for direct coil driving, it looks the same as the setup for MSD you listed above... Single Coil Direct Drive Output for a V3.0 PCB These instructions are only suitable for single and twin spark outputs, for more than 2 sparks see the mutiple output section Very Important: Set Spark Out Inverted = YES and set the Dwell to around 6.0mS for cranking 3.5mS for Running and 0.1mS for the Minimum Time as a starting point! Also set LED17 as SparkA output in Codebase and Output Functions!! Read the Software manual for more info!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zercs280zx Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I'm not familiar with this setup and always thought there had to be some kind of ignition control unit after MS for a fixed signal. A direct output to the coil (sounds like Spark control) and Fuel Only seem contradictory, but I could be wrong. Hopefully someone else can explain how it works. You sound like you've done your share of research and have a good grasp on things, so you should be in good shape once you get this ignition output setup correctly, or if it already is, figuring out what is happening to the signal. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cramer Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 The direct output to the coil is indeed for spark control, not for running fuel only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icarus Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 UPDATE: i now HAVE SPARK. after putting another whole weekend into this, as of late last night i have spark. now, dont ask me WHAT the problem was because honestly i couldnt tell ya exactly, i am thinking that it has perhaps been a combination of things all along. one of which was discussed in this thread: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=911570#post911570 well upon CLOSE (like microscopic) inspection there was a tiny little fiber like a single strand from lint or something that was indeed still jumpering the BP to the heatsink. i am not sure that it was even enough to conduct ANY significant amount of energy (it really was seriously tiny), but i scraped it out of there. but what i last did before the long awaited appearance of spark was just went through, cleaned, and 'reheated' all of the solders in the ignition circuit as to sortof rebond the solder with the connectors and hopefully get a better contact. i also REjumpered R43 (soldered a short across the leads of the 330ohm resistor that i had there, the one included with the BP chip 'kit') for the first time since i replaced the original BP chip. i did all of those things late last night during what i told myself was my LAST time tearing down and messing with this configuration before scrapping it and figuring out another way to get spark. and by golly when i plugged her all back in and cranked her over i got spark so strong it jumped nearly 3 inches and burned my knuckles (i have a spark plug connected to the lead straight off of the coil, before the dizzy, for testing). it burned so good. so i have spark! now i just have to get it to the cylinders and timed. when i hooked the coil wire back to the dizzy i was getting just some random missfiring very occasionally across random cylinders. i am sure that i have to mess with my trigger angle settings and perhaps the physical orientation of the dizzy again. but it was late last night and as far as i was concerned i was victorious already, so i decided to call it a night. luckily got a day off today (very rare) so gonna go play with my car in a sec here. i am going to try to run these settings that moby posted to get things started up: http://album.hybridz.org/data/500/untitled9.JPG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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