Guest Anonymous Posted September 15, 2001 Share Posted September 15, 2001 While I do realize that the T5 (WC) was never designed for torque capacities above 300 or so, I'm constrained ( due to $$ , fitment, and preference issues) to using the T5 mated to a Chevy 350 in my Datsun 240Z. Assuming a torque output of 350 or so, and assuming the tranny is in good shape, and I use a top quality synthetic ATF lubricant, combined with gearzone's excellent Countershaft Stabilizer, how well should I expect the tranny to hold up? Let us assume a car weight of 2500lbs, a 3.36 rear end, and 14" street tires. I am primarily a road racer. Never been on a strip, nor do I intend to. No high-rpm clutch dumps, no speed shifts. Just the occasional drift and tail out fun. The car will be daily driven, which means a lot of time on the freeway. Remember, I'm on a very tight budget which rules out the use of Tremecs and T56s. Will the tranny hold up, or is it doomed to a very quick death? Your advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted September 15, 2001 Share Posted September 15, 2001 Omar, Your WC T5 will do just fine if you shift smoothly and avoid any powershifting. It just doesn't like abuse at all. Normal use it's quite happy with. It tolerated a bud's Camaro Z28TT350 for quite some time with smooth driving. If you're resourceful their might be a few 'hard' parts that you could buy for very reasonable $ and have installed into yours that would add some strength to your unit. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 15, 2001 Share Posted September 15, 2001 By all means tell me of these "hard parts that greatly increase durability" that you speak of! I need all the info I can get! Thanks Omar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 15, 2001 Share Posted September 15, 2001 I'll second that - '88 Ford T5 lasted more than a year behind a TT 302 and a blower before that. HP was about 450, torque was pretty high. Given a choice I'd go with a stronger trans but the T5 DOES shift nice and smooth. I expect you'll break it but it if you're careful and treat it as you've described it'll last awhile... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 The torque difference will matter more on how you build the motor (compression, cam, intake choices) than 327 vs 350. I think this may be splitting hairs. One thing to consider is that all the head choices out there work better with 350 and 383 engines. Finding a head that is optimal for the 327 (port volumes, etc.) is not as easy. And rebuild parts are cheaper for the 350 as well. The main/rod bearings for my 327 are STILL on back order from PAW. I have a 327. If I were to do it over again, a 350, 353 (400 block, 307/327 crank), 377 (400 block, 350 crank), 383 (350 block, turned down 400 crank), or 406 would be my choice. Since I like low end around town torque and don't WANT to have to wind to find the power peak, I think one of these would suit me better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 After a lot of thinking I figured why not go for a 327 instead of a 350? Roughly the same amount of power, but greater efficiency (smaller displacement, less friction, bigger bore/stroke and rod/stroke ratios) and more importantly, less torque. While the difference might not be huge, its the difference between 380 and 350 lb-ft that may determine whether the tranny survives or not. Plus I like the high-revving character of the 327 better. So what do you guys think, would the 327 be a better choice in this case? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 22, 2001 Share Posted September 22, 2001 So Pete, what would you think of a 327 with pocket ported L31 Vortec heads, a 9.7 CR, Performer RPM intake, Comp Cams XE262/268 cam and a Holley 600? How much power and torque should I expect? And does this setup sound pretty peaky to you? And is the compression ratio excessive? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted September 23, 2001 Share Posted September 23, 2001 Omar: -it's how you shift/launch that will kill that trans.....not near as much so the power under the hood. I'd NEVER give up cubes as they're free power....(I had a 327 for a few years and now a 350/both were great but cubes is just free hp and torque with milder idle etc compared to same peak hp/tq from less cubes). -vortec heads will dictate the vortec type intake, Yes others have used non vortec intakes and they say it works fine....the ports do not match properly and what looks like a small mismatch to us is very important to the airflow and their power production, vortec's are 64cc heads so they can work fine on a 327 or standard 350 bottom end etc. - in my 280zx either my 325hp cammed 327 or my current higher cammed 350 both run to 6grand no sweat and it's only me that forces the shift.....I've not found either motor to 'rev' differently and I do understand the wear issue 327 vs. 350 but either can last a long time....then again 327 might just be plenty of power if it meets your goals easily....since you were talking efficiency it's easier to get that with milder cams which only make bigger numbers with bigger cubes typically (at reasonable cost), when GM gets 250hp+ out of the vortecs with short rockers and TINY roller cams it shows what a decent build can produce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 You're probably in the 300-325 hp range. Torque could be as high as 350 ft lbs. But Ross is right - it's how you shift that trans and how big and sticky the tires are that really make the difference. Shift it easy (no side stepping the clutch and no powershifting) and it will last a good while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fast Frog Posted September 27, 2001 Share Posted September 27, 2001 Omar: Ross is right! From personal experience, it's the shifting that matters most. I've got a WC T5 in my 383 Z and haven't had any problems with it since I installed it 6 yrs ago. Even with a Paxton SC (425+HP,435FP of torq) it handled fine. HOWEVER, I never "speed" shift with it and I don't race very often. It was at the track a couple of yrs ago and it handled OK. But the driver (a friend of mine) said that he could "feel" the strain and the twisting of the tranny as he was shifting. So it can't stand up to too much abuse when in the 400HP+ range. Rick [ September 27, 2001: Message edited by: Fast Frog ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 27, 2001 Share Posted September 27, 2001 I guess this question will never be truly answered. There are so many choices out there with both engines. The 350 will be cheaper to build, will idle smoother, make more vacuum, and be less stressed than a similar power 327. The main advantage is revability but with a tight budget I'm going to say that off the shelf parts are going to be used and 6000rpm is probably as high as you will spin it. The T5 will last if you don't BEAT IT!! Besides, a good road racer is easy on parts by being smooth and focused. Rev matching properly, no speed shifts, and no clutch dumps it should be ok. Shift safe and shift soft, live long!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted September 27, 2001 Share Posted September 27, 2001 I've only got a 302 (story of my life), but the entire drivetrain is solidly mounted from the engine back. With no rubber mounts to cushion the "impact" other than the cluth disc springs, I still find this transmission to hold together fine. Good shifting is a key part here. And the T-5 has (IMHO) the best "feel" as far as the shifting mechanism is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 29, 2001 Share Posted September 29, 2001 I think I'd agree that the T5 is the best shifting trans I've owned or driven including th eT56 I'm driving now. The T56 may yet turn out to be better but it'll take a little bit of a rebuild to get it there (ahem). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETEW Posted September 30, 2001 Share Posted September 30, 2001 I'm lost. The new Mustangs have 260hp and the Cobra's have 320 and they both use the Borg Warner t-5. I know we're talking about Camaro t-5's but what is so different about the Ford's that they can handle the power. I have seen ton of Mustang's running high 12's and no one said the trans was a problem. What gives??? Are they using a Tremec in Mustangs now? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted September 30, 2001 Share Posted September 30, 2001 The new Cobras do not run T5s, they run T45s and they're proving to be as durable as the T5s were However the Ford T56 is CHEAPER than what I can get a GM T56 for and it makes no sense (grr). For about $2K you can get a T56 modified to fit a Ford but to get a GM T56 "new" it's nearly $3K, WTF?! Cobra guys are swapping in 410, 430, and I think even a 45? series gears like mad. To keep highway RPMs in check they're popping in T56 6speeds. On the IRS cars you don't even have to modify the driveshaft! Dunno' if the T45 fits in place of the T5 very easily - never seen it done. Not sure what the T45 is rated for either but do realize that the 320HP has very little Torque and that torque is what kills a trans. That and dumping the clutch at a zillion RPM P.S. Yeah, actually it is a Tremec. Tremec bought out the Borg Warner tranny business. Makes it real confusing when someone talks about a Tremec "T5". That's NOT the aftermarket Tremec that everyone automatically thinks of! [ September 29, 2001: Message edited by: BLKMGK ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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