Nismo280zEd Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Ok, so what's the deal the vb921 got scraped, (figured that would happen sooner or later) but then replaced by the bosch part. Ok, no big deal, I'm a Bosch fan, but what is the deal. The ONLY place you can buy is through DIYautotune? WTF ?!? I like DIYautotune and support them, but 8 bucks a pop for a 2dollar piece of electronic circuitry!!! I'm a little upset and mad there is not competition with them for this part at the moment. I'm having to order 6 of these suckers. The whole idea of megasquirt was to be affordable, but yet I can't source the parts anywhere but them. Yeah 50 bucks isn't a terrible amount of money but 50 bucks could buy new exhaust piece or a gauge. It all adds up is what I'm saying. /Rant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 I was reading a Toyota MS guide and found this quote, hope it helps: "(Note that you can substitute a TIP120 in place of the VB921/BIP373 for switching the signal, it is much cheaper - ~75¢ compared to $6.00 - and more commonly available. Don't use a TIP120 for direct coil control, of course, it doesn't have the voltage or current protections.)" I see Radio Shack carries the TIP120 NPN-D Transistor for $1.59. http://www.radioshack.com/sm-tip120-npn-d-transistor--pi-2062617.html I don't have MS yet, but let us know if this works, assuming you haven't ordered the BIP373's yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 I have been accumulating parts and building my JimStim and p&h driver boards over the past two years for the MSII Extra system for my 280ZXT conversion, but have been an avid reader in the MS forums for 3 or 4 years. At $5 a pop, the VB's didn't hold any interest for me because of problems people have had with them - whether their own fault or not. At $3 more a pop, the Bosch units are time and manufacturer proven reliable and have at least half again the current capacity along with overheat protection. I myself will gladly pay the difference and consider myself lucky, because it will eliminate most of the problems associated with the VB's - whether it be incorrect setup/dwell or lack of current capability necessary... I had been thinking of a couple of Mitzu ignitors out of Stealth/3000GT's, but they would be even MORE expensive even at a pick & pull than the Bosch setup and no telling if they were good or not. So what is fault tolerance, overheat protection and higher current capacity worth to you? If not that much you should have bought the VB's while they were still available - and what would you do when one of THEM burns up? Or you COULD go and do what DIYAutotune did and make a bulk purchase and/or supplier contract and sell them yourself for what you can, but you'll be tying up your time and money in that endeavor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cramer Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 They're not the only option - just the BIPS were the only ignition driver we were able to find in a TO-220 package that has current limiting and thermal shutdown. There are a couple drivers that don't have the current limiting out there, such as Fairchild EcoSparks, surface mount versions of the VB921, and some comparatively expensive external modules. It wasn't easy to persuade Bosch there was a market for their transistors at the retail level. The BIP373s sell on their own for $6.50 each (that's in the service parts section of our website - the $8 kit includes a mica insulator pack and a resistor), and while I can't say what we actually pay for them, I will say that the % markup on them is actually less than on some of the other parts we sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Ok, so what's the deal the vb921 got scraped, (figured that would happen sooner or later) but then replaced by the bosch part. Ok, no big deal, I'm a Bosch fan, but what is the deal. The ONLY place you can buy is through DIYautotune? WTF ?!? I like DIYautotune and support them, but 8 bucks a pop for a 2dollar piece of electronic circuitry!!! I'm a little upset and mad there is not competition with them for this part at the moment. I'm having to order 6 of these suckers. The whole idea of megasquirt was to be affordable, but yet I can't source the parts anywhere but them. Yeah 50 bucks isn't a terrible amount of money but 50 bucks could buy new exhaust piece or a gauge. It all adds up is what I'm saying. /Rant You can probably find a set of GM LS-1 or Vortec coils with the built in igniters for less than $8 used (or another COP). Factory sealed, OEM quality, easy to buy a replacement if you have to. I would only use a single VB921 or equivalent in a distributor setup, but rigging up 6 of them in some sort of enclosure that can handle shock, vib, and the elements is difficult. Not worth the effort when you buy something better for the same or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo280zEd Posted July 22, 2008 Author Share Posted July 22, 2008 You can probably find a set of GM LS-1 or Vortec coils with the built in igniters for less than $8 used (or another COP). Factory sealed, OEM quality, easy to buy a replacement if you have to. I would only use a single VB921 or equivalent in a distributor setup, but rigging up 6 of them in some sort of enclosure that can handle shock, vib, and the elements is difficult. Not worth the effort when you buy something better for the same or less. Well.... we can thank my wonderful father for that. He wanted it to look OEM so we had to track down BERU coil packs which are OEM for porsche then get the damn clips sent from Germany, cause nobody over here sells them (even Porsche) I've had to make the entire harness, etc etc we are too deep in at this point to switch coil packs. We are buying the bosch part and paying the 8 dollar price. I'm definatley not an idiot. After all the money we've spent doing this setup on his 911 it would be retarded to swap out the drivers to a cheaper one that doesn't protect the board. My whole arguement is Megasquirt is kinda the poor mans DIY programable fuel injection that is starting to become expensive piece by piece. I hope it stays open source and the community grows and doesn't take advantage of what it has at it's fingertips. "Abolute power corrupts absolutely" That's all I'm saying. Matt.... don't take offense I"m just venting. I love your site and fully support you any time I can. You do wonders for the community and are always willing to help when you have spare time. I can't thank you enough for your site and services honestly. If not for your site I'd still be fighting with my damn weber carbs (hated those things). My order will be placed soon as well as a trigger wheel from you for my Z to get it up and running again. -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 OK, so you are using the stock Porsche coil packs that don't have igniters built in. I understand why your Father would like to keep the OEM look. BTW, I never said you were an idiot or that you were retarded. You need to thicken up your skin a little bit. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 My whole arguement is Megasquirt is kinda the poor mans DIY programable fuel injection that is starting to become expensive piece by piece. That is the main reason that I still order the MSI v2.2 unassembled kits for about $140. They still do everything I want and work fine for me. I had to add several circuits for the LS1 setup, but if you want to be cheap that is the price to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cramer Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I see what you're concerned about. In this case, this wasn't really a deliberate move, but ST's decision to drop the VB921 left us with a difficult time finding a replacement. The Bosch BIP series was the only thing that was really a drop-in substitute with a comparable set of features. The other things we looked at either required a change to the mainboard, created a real risk for frying the PCB, or would have been even more costly. As others have noted, it's still pretty straightforward to use factory ignition modules. Component suppliers discontinue parts all the time, for various reasons. Usually the scramble to find a new part is something that takes place behind the scenes and we come up with something that's readily available. For example, the ST323ABN chip currently used for serial communications has been dropped. You'll be seeing future kits made with a nearly identical and comparably priced chip from another manufacturer soon, but this one's pretty easy to order from electronics wholesalers. Usually these changes don't have much fanfare, but the way the VB921 proved difficult to find a substitute that let us keep all the current hardware designs made something of an exception. You can expect us to roll out some other extra items that could bring the cost up but add convenience - for example, we're looking into items that will make it easier for running Megasquirt on an SR20DET or RB motor. But you can also expect some interesting stuff coming out for the low-buck do it yourself crowd, such as a lower-priced Microsquirt variant with no case. And we don't plan on dropping things like the V2.2s as long as there's demand for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I like the idea of a Megasquirt PNP for SR and RB motors. Keep up the great work! Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cramer Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Won't be PNP, just some things to help out with the installation. To develop a PNP would call for us having to find a complete, running, 100% stock JDM car that we could keep in our shop a couple months for testing. We're just looking to cut down on the fabrication needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Won't be PNP, just some things to help out with the installation. To develop a PNP would call for us having to find a complete, running, 100% stock JDM car that we could keep in our shop a couple months for testing. We're just looking to cut down on the fabrication needed. So you mean that you will at least have an engine harness available for RB and SR motors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cramer Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 That's an interesting idea, but first we want to come up with a way to get Megasquirt on them that doesn't involve a bunch of fabrication to add a new trigger wheel and crank sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo280zEd Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 OK, so you are using the stock Porsche coil packs that don't have igniters built in. I understand why your Father would like to keep the OEM look. BTW, I never said you were an idiot or that you were retarded. You need to thicken up your skin a little bit. Pete I misrepresented what I was trying to say. Not saying anyone called me an idiot, I was simply saying it would be a backwards move to ignore the upgraded electronic technology that the Bosch chip delivers compared to the cheaper (TIP)? chip for .75c (I was simply saying I would have to be an idiot to do such a thing, that's all) -Matt Like I said I was just venting. I understand it's a business for you and you need to make money as does any business. I appreciate all the support you provide for the community and the solution to the problem with the drivers. I understand electronics get discontinued and change. It's an ever evolving field as pieces get more advanced and smaller. I love megasquirt as it has inspired me to persue a degree in electrical engineering instead of just computer science. I love how it is open source and extremley adaptable, it's almost like a lego set for engine managment. I apologize for the misunderstanding. -Ed Henkel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo280zEd Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 That's an interesting idea, but first we want to come up with a way to get Megasquirt on them that doesn't involve a bunch of fabrication to add a new trigger wheel and crank sensor. btw... SR's use a cam sensor that can easily be used to trigger MS KA's use a sensor on the dist wheel and there is a pickup on the flywheel for MS use. SR might have the flywheel sensor as well, not sure. -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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