7MGFORCE Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 okay so i was reading some more on the efi to carb swap. i have a 302 from 92 mustang gt. i have read that i need to get a valve cover that has vent on both side. but other convertion doesnt mention this. i mean stock valve cover has one vent isnt that enough? and what do you guys think about that pcv vent into a catch can then from catch can to the air? b/c im concern that maybe it might vent things into the engine and maybe even clog the fiter and cause blow by. with the catch can it will catch all the stuff that comes out. and btw anyone know how to convert the water pump so it could spin clockwise? i will only have the alternator, crank and water pump but with the 302 ho the water pump spins counter clockwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74_5.0L_Z Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 The EFI 302 has the PCV valve at the back of the intake, and the breather plumbed from the passenger side valve cover to the throttle body. The older carbureted 302 engines had the PVC valve at the rear of the passenger side valve cover and a vented oil filler cap on the driver side valve cover. In both cases, vacuum from the intake pulls vapors from the crank case while fresh air is drawn in through the breather. This is a good thing for emissions and for the longevity of the engine. There are a variety of valve covers available. Try and find a set that has a PCV provision on one side and a breather provision on the other. Also, a quality set will have baffles below the holes for the pcv and breather. The baffles reduce the amount of oil that get into the intake through the PCV valve prevents the breather from getting saturated by oil thrown off of the rocker arms. I am kind of fond of these: http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=6147 Also, if you read this thread: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=139751 we discussed water pumps and belts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7MGFORCE Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 The EFI 302 has the PCV valve at the back of the intake, and the breather plumbed from the passenger side valve cover to the throttle body. The older carbureted 302 engines had the PVC valve at the rear of the passenger side valve cover and a vented oil filler cap on the driver side valve cover. In both cases, vacuum from the intake pulls vapors from the crank case while fresh air is drawn in through the breather. This is a good thing for emissions and for the longevity of the engine. There are a variety of valve covers available. Try and find a set that has a PCV provision on one side and a breather provision on the other. Also, a quality set will have baffles below the holes for the pcv and breather. The baffles reduce the amount of oil that get into the intake through the PCV valve prevents the breather from getting saturated by oil thrown off of the rocker arms. I am kind of fond of these: http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=6147 Also, if you read this thread: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=139751 we discussed water pumps and belts. is it really needed to swap the valve cover when converting carb? and i have read that link before does the 302 have to have that that type to control the best tension? i was thinking of making a custom one that control the tension and so it will be up to me on how much tension is put in, would that be a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74_5.0L_Z Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 When you are done you really want to end up with one of the two types of set-ups: 1. PCV in one valve cover, and breather on the other. or, 2. Breathers in both valve covers. Since you are in California, I am guessing that you need to opt for the first option. As far as a tensioner for the belt, you can get away with making your own. I did just that with my set-up, and it works great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7MGFORCE Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 When you are done you really want to end up with one of the two types of set-ups:1. PCV in one valve cover, and breather on the other. or, 2. Breathers in both valve covers. Since you are in California, I am guessing that you need to opt for the first option. As far as a tensioner for the belt, you can get away with making your own. I did just that with my set-up, and it works great. curious i saw that the old 302 have clockwise rotating water pump. could i use the old waterpump and put it in the the new 87-93 302? would it work? i figure since i need to buy a new water pump anyways if this would convert it then ill just buy the old style. also would drilling a hole in the stock valve and putting a breather work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74_5.0L_Z Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 There are several problems that you run into when trying to mix and match pulleys and water pumps from the older 302 and the newer 5.0L. First, the older 302 used a different bolt pattern for the crank pulley. The 1968 through some time in the 1980's used a 3 bolt pattern, and the 1982 -1995 5.0L used a 4 bolt pulley. Unfortunately, you can't just get a harmonic damper from an old 302 and put it on a 5.0L because the two motors are balanced differently (the 302 had 28 in-oz imbalance, and the 5.0L has 50 in-oz imbalance). There are aftermarket harmonic balancers available that let you use three bolt pulleys and are balanced for the later 5.0L. Second, the older 302 has a different timing chain cover. This you can get and put on the newer engines. You would then also get the matching water pump. Actually, there are a myriad of water pumps of different lengths and varying inlet positions to choose from. This sounds like a good thing, but it just complicates matters. The trick is to find pulleys that will bolt up to your water pump, harmonic damper, and alternator, and bracketry that will put everything in proper alignment. This can be a real pain. Here is the point: Buy a complete pre-engineered set-up. You can go junk yard shopping if you want. You might get lucky and find a late model (~1988 I think) Crown Victoria that had a forward rotation water pump, the correct pulleys, and bracketry (good luck). If you find a car that has the set-up that you want, make sure that you get everything (all pulleys and all brackets) Or, you could call a company like March Performance and buy a complete set of pulleys and brackets that will align everything properly and look good. Unfortunately, their stuff isn't cheap (but sure is pretty). You asked the following regarding the valve covers, "also would drilling a hole in the stock valve and putting a breather work?" The problem with just drilling a hole is that there will not be a baffle between the breather and the rocker arms. The baffle acts as an oil/air seperator. Without the baffle, you will have an oily mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7MGFORCE Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 There are several problems that you run into when trying to mix and match pulleys and water pumps from the older 302 and the newer 5.0L. First, the older 302 used a different bolt pattern for the crank pulley. The 1968 through some time in the 1980's used a 3 bolt pattern, and the 1982 -1995 5.0L used a 4 bolt pulley. Unfortunately, you can't just get a harmonic damper from an old 302 and put it on a 5.0L because the two motors are balanced differently (the 302 had 28 in-oz imbalance, and the 5.0L has 50 in-oz imbalance). There are aftermarket harmonic balancers available that let you use three bolt pulleys and are balanced for the later 5.0L. Second, the older 302 has a different timing chain cover. This you can get and put on the newer engines. You would then also get the matching water pump. Actually, there are a myriad of water pumps of different lengths and varying inlet positions to choose from. This sounds like a good thing, but it just complicates matters. The trick is to find pulleys that will bolt up to your water pump, harmonic damper, and alternator, and bracketry that will put everything in proper alignment. This can be a real pain. Here is the point: Buy a complete pre-engineered set-up. You can go junk yard shopping if you want. You might get lucky and find a late model (~1988 I think) Crown Victoria that had a forward rotation water pump, the correct pulleys, and bracketry (good luck). If you find a car that has the set-up that you want, make sure that you get everything (all pulleys and all brackets) Or, you could call a company like March Performance and buy a complete set of pulleys and brackets that will align everything properly and look good. Unfortunately, their stuff isn't cheap (but sure is pretty). You asked the following regarding the valve covers, "also would drilling a hole in the stock valve and putting a breather work?" The problem with just drilling a hole is that there will not be a baffle between the breather and the rocker arms. The baffle acts as an oil/air seperator. Without the baffle, you will have an oily mess. okay thanks another question, as i was looking for a way to put tension on the belt i found alot of people using a tie rod. but i cant seem to find where people buy this stuff. heres a pic of what im talking about. not a 302 but the tension rod bolt thing is thesame. where do i get one? i have looked on ebay, online all i find is iether house tie rod or like car tie rods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74_5.0L_Z Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 The rod you are referring to is called a turnbuckle, and it is composed of several parts: 1. The ends are called spherical rod ends. For a turnbuckle, you need two. One has right hand threads, and the other has left hand threads. 2. The central tube is threaded. One end is threaded for right hand threads, and the other for left hand threads. 3. Two lock nuts, one with left hand threads and one with right hand threads. These keep the turnbuckle from rotating after you get it adjusted. Typically, the only places to get this stuff is through racing and aircraft supply businesses. I typically order my rod ends through Aircraft spruce, the Chassis Shop, or Coleman Machine Racing. Each of these companies can supply all of the parts you need to make your tensioner. Once you buy anything from these companies, you will start getting their paper catalogs in the mail. Their catalogs are just filled with parts that will let you do just about anything that you can dream up (and afford). It is apparent to me from your posts that you are fairly new to the fabricating parts and/or playing with cars. Do yourself a favor and read some of the following: Design to Win (Carroll Smith) Tune to Win (Carroll Smith) Bolts, Fasteners, and Plumbing Handbook (Carroll Smith) The last book is especially useful for showing you the proper way to bolt things together (and have them not self destruct). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slyhog22056 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 My 1988 lincoln motor uses a clockwise rotation pump with serpentine belt to run crank, water pump and alternator with no tensioner, just the curved brackets that i extended to make the belt tight, BTW if your alternator mounts con the passenger side just below the head you will have to find a serpentine belt mine ended up being 39" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7MGFORCE Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 how much you want for your 6 groove water pump pulley? lol jk seriously though i cant seem to find those 6 groove pulley anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustChou Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 hey 7M, I'm running a carbed 1985 5.0 in my 280Z and I'm thinking about switching to EFI. Do you have all of the parts from the EFI (manifolds, harness, speed density, etc)? I'm interested in buying them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustChou Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Also, here is an early picture of the tensioner setup that allowed me to run the reverse rotation water pump but remove the power steering and A/C. It's the old tensioner, mounted "upside down" on a bracket attached to the water pump and the alternator bracket. Once I trimmed down the top corner, it looked really clean, but I don't have a picture of the finished product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slyhog22056 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I still have everything from the top of the engine. All just sitting around. The only part i need to keep is the TV cable. harness is still there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7MGFORCE Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 Also, here is an early picture of the tensioner setup that allowed me to run the reverse rotation water pump but remove the power steering and A/C. It's the old tensioner, mounted "upside down" on a bracket attached to the water pump and the alternator bracket. Once I trimmed down the top corner, it looked really clean, but I don't have a picture of the finished product. thanks but i end up just buying a 6 rib pulley for the tensioner and reversing the spring. hopefully it works. but i wont be able to find out till i get her running lol. and check your pm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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