LSx powered Z-32.... GO!!!!

[Crash]

That looks like a good 2 1/2 - 3 inches. I'll likely be setting the motor as far back as the stock motor. So that's about 2 to 2 1/2 inches further back (I think). I assume that'd actually cause a few issues with the steering rack actually... Thoughts?

[Gollum]

Paul,

 

It looks to me like some of those MIGHT work, but it's always hard to tell in pictures. Would it really be THAT disheartening to have to have custom headers made? You might be able to achieve 85% of the performance of the best manifolds with some good log manifolds and clear everything without modification.

 

I'd hate to see the swap halted on the pure complication of exhaust. Now, oil pan clearance is one thing though, as it can make or break an engine location, thus swap.

[Crash]

I agree. And if the manifolds you make custom turn out to be perfect and even flow well (or at least match the stock manifolds) it may be worth it to make a few sets to sell since that would be the deal breaker if you do in fact get the oil pan and positioning to work out. As you'd pointed out, that aftermarket group (forgot the name) is looking to make a kit. This may be the icing on the cake.

[dts300z]

Another thing to consider is that if the vette LS2 manifolds fit, I'm sure the aftermarket shorty headers would most likely work as well.

 

Don't throw in the towel yet I think you just about got this one figured out and it will be extremely worth the time and effort.

 

As far as converting to front steer, I actually considered doing this before modding the fire wall and tunnel and this could be a good solution if you can get the steering geometry worked out. Might be worth designing a custom spindle for.

 

When I did the first initial LT1 swap in my car I ran into the same problem with the exhaust. I used a set of sbc block huggers and put a tight radius on the end to clear the steering (the LS2 vette manifolds look like a far better solution).

[BRAAP]

That looks like a good 2 1/2 - 3 inches. I'll likely be setting the motor as far back as the stock motor. So that's about 2 to 2 1/2 inches further back (I think). I assume that'd actually cause a few issues with the steering rack actually... Thoughts?

 

 

Crash,

It just so happens by sheer coincidence, this is approx same locoation as the stock VG30DE sits, i.e. the bellhousing mating surface. To move the engine back any further will require cutting the firewall or lowering the engine. This mounting location already has the rack/crossmember lowered 3/4" which is 3/4 " too much.

[BRAAP]

I apologize if I mislead. The exhaust has nothing to do with me possibly scrapping this project. As mentioned, the exhaust can be worked out with custom headers which would be better for performance any how.

 

The reason is, to meet my goal, unmolested firewall/underdash, daily driver LSx powered Z32, retaing all the niceties it came with from Nissan and still remain a sports car, is going to be huge engineering excersise, not just an engine swap. I dropped crossmember which is a no no unless the car is only a straight liner, it's not, it's a sportscar so suspension geometry is impotant. That means raising the engine 3/4" from where I have it currently, which means it needs go forward approx 1"-1 1/2" which also means an altered hood to clear the throttle body. Also means the radiator now has to sit in the space ahead of the core support and leaves little to no room for intake plumbing due to the engine crowding the core support, shift lever ends up 5-6" forward of the stock location, engine mass is higher and more foward in the car, and the list goes on....

 

In short, there is no real clean way to make this happen without some big compromise. Small compromise are fine but not ones that take huge chunks out of the goal.

[ShaggyZ]

yep....

 

[dts300z]

I think doing something similar to the FD RX7 swap might work. If you make a jig for the cross member and drop just the rack portion your 3/4" and drop your tie rod ends with the rack using something similar to the FD kit and you should be good to go. This way your not altering the geometry significantly. At this point you could stick to your plan and have one BAMFDD... lol.

[Crash]

HAHA! Shaggy... You love dem z31s, huh?

[ShaggyZ]

HAHA! Shaggy... You love dem z31s, huh?

I can like them; I've owned a beautiful '86 and a decent looking '87 Turbo and still think about getting back into them. Now, I'm just posting them up to tempt BRAAP into making a cool Z31 because there are so few good examples of their potential.

[Gollum]

I can like them; I've owned a beautiful '86 and a decent looking '87 Turbo and still think about getting back into them. Now, I'm just posting them up to tempt BRAAP into making a cool Z31 because there are so few good examples of their potential.

 

Am I not saying the same about the S130 all the time around here? I guess one of these days I'll have to commit myself to make such an example.

 

It's ironic it's such a headache to fit a LS in the Z32, seeing as the LS fits with room to spare in the S30 while the VG30DETT is such a tight fit and a pita to get around the steering linkage. I guess that just shows how well they design a chassis to fit a particular engine these days.

[Crash]

What's amazing to me is that the LSx is the #1 used motor for swaps because of its power-to-weight and its physical size. It's actually kind of shocking to see that it's problem to fit into this chassis. I still look forward to the headaches of getting this project done, though.

[Crash]

Braap,

 

After you noted that the shifter would be a few inches too far forward, I started looking around for a remedy for that because even if I set the motor back 2-3 more inches, the shifter will still be too far forward. So that got me thinking about how to manage that with out a retardedly long bent shifter because that would make the shifting weird. I was looking at the 04 GTO shifter on the T56 and it appears that they're relocated back about 3-4 inches (maybe more?). If that were the case, that'd solve another one of the issues you see with the motor being too far forward.

[BRAAP]

Braap,

 

 

After you noted that the shifter would be a few inches too far forward, I started looking around for a remedy for that because even if I set the motor back 2-3 more inches, the shifter will still be too far forward. So that got me thinking about how to manage that with out a retardedly long bent shifter because that would make the shifting weird. I was looking at the 04 GTO shifter on the T56 and it appears that they're relocated back about 3-4 inches (maybe more?). If that were the case, that'd solve another one of the issues you see with the motor being too far forward.

 

Crash,

You are on the right track in wanting to get the engine further back. Getting the engine further rearward in the car solves so many of these issues. Doing so though will require cutting of the firewall to some degree or another, (depends on how far you are moving the engine rearward.) To gain a better understanding of how much, go back to the first page of this thread and spend some time in post #3 and post #4, (all posts are numbered at the top of each post, right hand side)

 

With the engine in the position I have outlined in post #3 and #4, the GTO shifter assy in the same location as the stock Z-32. If you move the engine back 2"-3" from what I have outlined, that puts the GTO shifter too far rearward, buy that same amount, making the and standard F-body shifter with a 1" dog leg much easier and better fitting. (My commensts recently of having to move the engine even further forward yet would mean the even with the GTO shifter arrangement is still about 1 1/2"-2" too far forward!)

 

 

Here is the shifter info from post #3...

Did some more Head scratching and fine tuning of the mock up.

 

 

1) Rack and pinion. ...

2) Trans tunnel entrance/Firewall. ...

3) Trans tunnel. ...

4) TB-hood clearance. ...

5) Heater lines. ...

6) Oil Pan. …

 

7) Trans. In this position, the GTO T-56 with its shifter location puts the shifter EXACTLY 3/8” forward of the stock Z-32 location To use the GTO T-56 you “might” have to remove some material from the top of the trans tunnel to clear the plastic housing for this shifter, but I am pretty sure there is enough room under the Z-32 console for such. I still may use the Caddy CTS-V T-56 as its shifter design and operation is the same as the OE Z-32, would just require adapting the stock shifter to the T-56 shift arm.

 

GTO shifter extends shift lever 3 3/8” rearward from the F-bod T-56. A HUGE thank you goes out to m1noel for this GTO shifter assy.

 

Area of the trans tunnel that “might” need to be modified/cut to clear the GTO shifter apparatus.

 

...

[Crash]

Ah. You're right. I totally forgot about that. I will be cutting the firewall for mine because I figure to alleviate the multiple minor head-aches, it's best to deal with one big one. I see how the standardy F-body shifter is in the right spot. That was somewhat worrying me so that definitely puts me at some ease. Since I'm using the McLeod bellhousing, I shouldn't have to cut the firewall as much. The cut will be lower and (hopefully) more narrow so I can fit everything under the dash right back in.

[BRAAP]

Exactly! In moving the engine back 3”-3 ½” inches, you’ll solve lots of little issues, F-body shifter will exit in the stock location, etc etc etc…

 

That McLeod Bell-housing should help tremendously in reducing the amount of cutting that will be required to the firewall/trans tunnel entrance.

 

Something else that may help is the big vacuum port on the back of the LS1 intakes, (circled in MAGENTA) can be removed and that hole plugged which would eliminate the need to notch the firewall above the bell housing to clear that, (GREEN arrow)! You will need to find a vacuum source for the MAP sensor which is no biggee as there are 2 other vacuum ports, possibly three off the front and T/B combined. Worst case scenario, the big vacuum port goes to a vacuum reservoir.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Something you will have deal with is the heater lines. Being as you are into the firewall and will have the dash out, this should not be a problem whatsoever. Just penetrate the firewall of the heater lines in location closer tot the passenger fender out of the way of the cylinder head.

 

 

 

 

Making the decision to the cut the firewall is good one I that it makes this conversion SOOOOoooo much more realistic. I’m just not willing to do that with this particular car.

Edited April 17, 2009 by BRAAP

[Crash]

I thought about that vacuum line too. The thing is that I'm pretty sure that one goes to the brake booster. (I'll have to recheck) Notching the firewall to fit that line wouldn't be that big of a deal. As long as I'm already there, it shouldn't be too big of an issue. I saw another Z32 conversion where they had to cut in a small rectangular area to fit that line, but I can't recall what they said they were using it for. I imagine that if they kept it and went through all the work for it, it's likely important! LOL (Though, if I have any unused vacuum ports hanging around, I'd rather to that route. Worst case scenario, I can get an electric brake pump sold for electric cars to handle that.)

 

I saw that the heater lines needed to be moved in the LT1 conversion on this forum too. I figured that wouldn't be a big deal at all.

 

There's definitely a lot of room between the block and the firewall. I'm wondering what the consequences are of moving the block so far towards the firewall though? Heat?

[BRAAP]

Crash,

Yeah that port is convenient for he brake booster, being right there and so close. Not sure if this helps, but here are a few shots of my mock up LS1 intake. My thinking is it might easier and less hassle to remove the vacuum port at the rear of the intake than I would be modify the firewall at that location and the goodies that lie on the other side of the firewall in that location.

 

The rear. That plug assy does float in the back of the manifold. Feels as if it is sealed by O-ring and is either push locked or twit locked to the manifold. At some point I will look into this a little more and may try to remove one.;

 

 

Here is the front of the manifold. One port on either side of the plenum entrance and one on the TB itself.

 

 

[Crash]

Ah. Damn, I wish I had my Trans Am right now to see what those ports on the manifold went to. LOL I'll have to look at my friend's tonight to see what they go to. I know I can do a T splitter too as an option. I just wouldn't want that to affect the item it's already being used for. I think one goes to a sensor to tell the ECU to advance timing. The other I can't imagine where it'd go.

 

EDIT: Yeah, you're right. Where that vacuum port sits on the back, there may be something I'm going to want behind the firewall. I'm going to find that other page I saw the cut made and see what they removed.

[Crash]

BTW, Braap. Thanks for taking the time to post up these pics with the details and editing on them!