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350z r200 v.s. 300z r200

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I chalked up another learning experience today. I just received a R200 open diff today and I decided to yank mine and attempt a diff swap.

 

The internals as far as the diff is concerned are the same at least they appear to be (bearings, width, ring gear bolt pattern, bolt size etc...). The pinion is totally different, it uses a crush sleeve and is a lot larger in diameter on the shaft and uses a much larger bearing set. Also on the outside of the case the front mounting ears are at a 7" spacing v.s. the 6" spacing like the Z32 not to mention the companion flange is also larger like the Q45.

 

Just a guess but I would say it looks almost like it would fit the z32tt sub frame and be a almost easy swap minus the companion flange situation which could be cured with a custom drive shaft.

 

I will try and put up some pictures for reference if I can muster up some drive after this expensive learning experience.

 

So the long and short if anyone needs a 3.35:1 g35 or 350z diff I have one for sale... lol.

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Ok! I'm working on a solution for this problem. It's time to find some bearings. I might be able to make up the difference on the pinion by finding some different size bearings. This might involve turning down the pinion shaft diameter in order to make it work but I will exhaust every bearing manufacture before I go this route.

 

I just need to check a few more things and I'll post up the findings with some pictures and specific details of how to go about this little project. It may interest few but it will be a good addition to the HybridZ database.

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OK I'm making some progress and I'm trying to find some dimensions for the rear pinion bearing for a Q45. This is just a guess but the Q45 bearing could be the ticket.

 

I need a little help! Does anyone work for Nissan / Infinity that can find out some dimensions for the inside diameter of the bearing and the outside diameter of the race for the rear pinion bearing?

 

The solution for the front bearing is to use the 350z bearing and pinion seal. Yes this will require the use of the 350z/Q45 companion flange. I believe the 350z has the same companion flange as the Q45 and that would lead to a larger diameter pinion and thats why I think the rear pinion bearing might work.

 

The whole problem with the 350z case is it is a little wider than the z32 case preventing the rear cover swap... dunno why. Also the rear pinion bearing out of the 350z case is alot larger in diameter plus the front mounting ears like mentioned above are too wide.

 

So basically I think if you use the 3.35:1 gear set with the corresponding front bearing and pinion seal plus the Q45 rear pinion bearing and the z32 case plus vlsd will work in theory....

 

Any comments or suggestions please!

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Dan,

 

Just curious, how much different is the "footprint" of the Q-45 diff, (front and rear mounting footprint), to the Z-32 R-200? I have both, just haven't looked at them that close, yet. :wink:

 

Almost seems like the Q-45 R-200 might be easier to just bolt in the N/A Z-32 cradle. in doing so you would be compromising ratio for ease of installation, 3.54:1 ratio vs the 3.35:1 ratio, also pending input and output flange/half shafts...

 

How difficult is it to find a TT rear sub frame? That may be the ticket for the 3.35:1 ratio.

Edited by BRAAP

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Dan,

 

Just curious, how much different is the "footprint" of the Q-45 diff, (front and rear mounting footprint), to the Z-32 R-200? I have both, just haven't looked at them that close, yet. :wink:

 

Almost seems like the Q-45 R-200 might be easier to just bolt in the N/A Z-32 cradle. in doing so you would be compromising ratio for ease of installation, 3.54:1 ratio vs the 3.35:1 ratio, also pending input and output flange/half shafts...

 

How difficult is it to find a TT rear sub frame? That may be the ticket for the 3.35:1 ratio.

 

Paul,

 

I believe the Q45 and the Z32n/a have the same footprint. That is just a guess though. I just think Nissan wouldn't have changed the housing from that close of a year car but I could be wrong. I would be interested to see your findings. If you put a tape across the front mounting ears of the Q45 diff and it is around 6" cl bolt hole to cl bolt hole then I think it would be a bolt in solution as that is what the z32 n/a is. I will get the measurements of the diff cover bolts too.

 

Yes I think you are right about the Q45 diff and it being easier, I just like doing stuff the difficult way... lol. That was another concern with the half shaft flanges being 6 bolt vs. 5 bolt. I think there could be a easy solution by just swapping the vlsd and then you could use the 5 bolt stub shafts, granted you will not have the beefier 6 bolt but I believe the 5 bolts are pretty tough too and will suffice.

 

The whole problem with the 350z housing is that it's just a little wider then the normal r200 and finding a 2 bolt cover to fit it and into the z I think will be difficult.

 

With the TT subframe you might be right just need to get some dimensions to verify the bolt patterns but that still leaves the rear cover issue but it might surely prove to be easier.

 

I will post up some pictures and measurements tonight about the z32 r200 and the 350z r200.

 

Thanks,

Dan

 

Lastly on a different note it might be possible that the companion flange for the 350z might fit the r230 out of the z32tt and might make the driveshaft a little easier in a swapping sense... dunno though just a thought.

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Dan,

I wander if the 350-Z diff might be closer to the R-230 internally vs the other short nose R-200’s?… Crush sleeve, wider spread on the nose ear mounts?...

 

 

I did find in reading the stickies I found brief mentions of the 350-Z diff, one poster (another V-8 Z-32 guy), even asked about the internal interchangeability of the 350-Z diff and the N/A Z-32, but nothing concrete such as specs, dimensions, internals interchangeability, etc.

In this thread are pics of the R-200 and R-230. IT looks as thought he R-230 has wider spread of the front mounting ears, maybe similar to the 350-Z spread?

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=103512

 

 

Looks like you’re charting new waters Dan. Keep us posted.

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You could be right about the internals being closer to the R230. I will get some definitive measurement tonight and post them up as I go. I saw a few FSM pictures of the Q45 and unfortunately I did not see the 90 model... I wonder if it uses a crush sleeve. With the larger companion flange I would assume the pinion is larger in diameter resulting in a larger bore for the rear bearing. Hmmmm this could work!

 

Yes I saw those stickies and I think the 350z diff does look closer to the R230 in regards to the mounting ear spread. Although I think the case is only maybe 1/2" wider if that than the z32 n/a case. Measurements to come later...

 

Thank you for the input Paul!

 

On a side note I did find a bearing set that could be close if not a perfect solution for the rear pinion bearing from Grainger but I'm trying to stay with Nissan stuff in order to keep this a one stop shop...

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I have 2 Q-45 R-200's, One of which I pulled from a '90 Q-45 and the other is from my '96 Q-45. In just glancing at them, the only difference I see is the '90 has the larger capacity sumped/finned rear cover, the '96 rear cover looks just like the old long nose R-200 cover, simple plain cover. At some point in the near future, (month or so), I will get the chance to look closer at them both as I will installing one of them in my LSx Z-32 for the taller ratio. If anything stands out as odd or different, I'll post what I find.

 

I am pretty sure that I will have to use the Q-45 half-shafts, but haven't researched to see if the outboard splines are the same between Q-ship and N/A Z-32. I do know that the hub itself is a bolt on to the aluminum upright, so worst case, would be be just botling on the Q ship rear hub/bearing/flange.

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Ok here are a few pictures. Let me know if you want pictures of anything else so I can take them while it's apart. I will post up the findings and what will and won't work if anything works... lol.

 

Left 350z Right 300z n/a

DSC00229.jpg

 

350z

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300z n/a

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300z n/a

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350z

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300z n/a (left) 350z (right)

DSC00234.jpg

 

350z (left) 300z n/a (right)

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350z (left) 300z n/a (right)

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DSC00238.jpg

 

DSC00237.jpg

 

and the covers

DSC00240.jpg

Edited by johnc

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Thanks for the edit!

 

Ok, so after much contemplation I decided to put the stocker back together to give the car its first road test after almost a year (I am very glad I did this). I came to the conclusion that the 3.35's are not going to cut it. Between the 3200 stall and the 4.08 rear I am surely going to need something alot closer to the 3.08 range for this thing to be somewhat streetable.

 

I am putting this on the back burner for now until I figure out another route but I will figure out the details for everyone else's benefit it just might take a little longer.

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I removed the diff again for another attempt. Thus far I have found that the ring gear width is substantially different. So for this to work you would need to turn down the ring gear as well (still might do this for fun).

 

I also have been calling bearing shops in town and have had no luck yet. The dimensions of the bearing I will need are 3.5" (89mm) OD of the race and 1.77" (45mm) ID of the bearing. I have confirmed that the front bearing and race and seal out of the 350z diff will fit into the 300z diff so no problems there.

 

I think the solution for the rear bearing is going to be to turn down the pinion to accept a 40mm ID and that will open me up for more bearing selections or possibly finding a standard bearing size (inch) that would be closer and open up the housing / turn down the pinion... regardless I'm determined. I still want to check the 90-92 Q45 diff to see if it uses the bearing I'm looking for.

 

Then the only hurdle will be turning down the ring gear I think!! lol

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Ok, I have to retire the thread. I'm sorry but this is just not a practical solution. There will bee too much machine work involved and the cost will not be justifiable.

 

Instead I have decided to do a solid axle 8.8 swap into the Z. This will provide an large variety of gear selections and they are pretty bulletproof. I will start a new thread once I sell everything and get the new parts.

 

Wish me luck!

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Ok, I have to retire the thread. I'm sorry but this is just not a practical solution. There will bee too much machine work involved and the cost will not be justifiable.

 

Instead I have decided to do a solid axle 8.8 swap into the Z. This will provide an large variety of gear selections and they are pretty bulletproof. I will start a new thread once I sell everything and get the new parts.

 

Wish me luck!

 

Ok it's time to bring back the dead. I ended up taking an interesting route to achieve my desired gearing. I decided to modify the subframe to fit the R200 out of the 350z in true HybridZ fashion. I have been driving it around for a few days now and I must say the work was well worth it. Here are a few pictures of the route I took.

 

 

 

 

 

Well one more thing to hold me back just a little bit longer till completion. I have been bouncing back and forth on what I was going to do for the gearing in the rear end. I have finally made a decision and I'm sticking with it... . I have decided to modify the sub frame to accept a 350z differential that so happens to have the perfect gearing (3.35:1) for my tire size I'll be running (26").

 

So far I have yanked out the sub frame and cut it up a little to make room for the wider footprint between the ears on the 350z diff. As seen below in the comparison picture. You will also notice the the height of the ears are different as well in comparison from the centerline of the pinions and this will also be addressed.

 

300z on the left and 350z on the right

 

 

DSC00234.jpg

 

 

Here is the cuts I've made so far to make a little room.

 

 

DSC00804.jpg

 

 

 

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You can see in this picture the difference between the rear covers and unfortunately they won't swap.

 

350z left and the 300z right

 

 

DSC00240.jpg

 

 

The plan here is to mill down the cover around the perimeter bolts so I can design a girdle to replace the missing mounting point. It so happens that the one bolt lines up perfectly and will provide a point of origin for the differential.

 

 

Unfortunately this diff is an open diff and well lets just say I stopped at spools-r-us on the way home... and since this is not an everyday driver it will be fine for my application.

 

 

 

 

DSC00805.jpg

 

No worries I still have a little more welding to do on that...

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Ok, I boxed in the subframe with some 1/8" plate and welded everything up. I still need to work on the girdle for the back of the differential but the front mount is good to go. The picture has an optical illusion and the holes look cocked but they aren't. I will keep the updates coming as I make progress.

 

OH and sorry about the bad camera phone picture...

 

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Here are a few pictures of the diff all the way welded up...

 

DSC00856.jpg

 

DSC00855.jpg

 

I've made some pretty good progress on getting the rear end setup and welded in place. I've still got a lot of welding to do but here are the pictures.

 

 

DSC00849.jpg

 

DSC00850.jpg

 

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DSC00853.jpg

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DSC00859.jpg

 

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DSC00861.jpg

 

DSC00862.jpg

 

DSC00863.jpg

 

DSC00864.jpg

 

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I've also got the axles. Ended up the G35 axles worked out great. All I have to do is swap the right side axle shaft from my old set because it is a little longer(actually I ended up swaping over both axle shafts as they both were slightly different). the spline count going into the hub is the same and I couldn't be happier. Hope to have the rear end rebuilt and back in the car in the next few weeks... maybe sooner.

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Alright! I have finally made some more progress this past weekend. I am really excited now so hopefully I can get this thing on the road soon. Here are some more pictures of the progress. I should have it back on the road next weekend WOOOOHOOOO!

 

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And finally in the car and running!

 

 

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Man I tell you what a spool is no joke lol. Its alot easier to just throttle around a turn then it is to hear the back end bind up lol.

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