Guest MM_280Z Posted June 24, 2001 Share Posted June 24, 2001 Looking for a all purpose welder for use on my Z. Should do low guage unibody stuff and high strength structural stuff too, and aluminum too if that's not too much to ask from an entry-level welder. I am completely new to welding, so I don't realy know what to look for. I see ranges of MIG welders from $200 to thousands. I see 110 V, 140 A welders for $400 and the same thing with "Commercial" in front of the name for $900. What is the difference?! I understand it's hard to go wrong with a MIG welder, but what should I look for? Do I need gas? Is flux welding merely an inconvenience (cleaning flash) or are there strength issues involved too? How long does, say, 20 cubic feet of gas last? And what about TIG welding? I saw a guy once build up a handle on top of a screw using a TIG welder. If it is so much more precise why is it not more widely used? Lastly, how much could I expect to pay for a decent welding setup (welder, mask, gloves, gas, regulator, respirator, etc.) I don't expect to do commercial speed welding, but given adequate time the setup should allow me to do all types of welds from shiny and presentable to rugged and strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimzdat Posted June 24, 2001 Share Posted June 24, 2001 MM--I can't answer all the questions-but I can give ya my .02--I just bought a Hobart Handler 135 wirefeed Mig-it works with both flux-core (no gas) or Argon sheilded wire, and can weld up to 3/16" metals. If you shop around a little, you can find this welder for about $325. A gas rig will give you much cleaner welds, if you can afford it, make sure you get one-a bottle of gas will last a fairly long tim e, depending on how usage-call your local welding supply, and they can let you know how much a bottle is (rental or buy, plus cost of gas) TIG is not as widely used because of the skill level needed, as far as I know--yes it is a very precise welder like you said, but without the right training, it does you no good-wheras a MIG is a little more forgiving (I learned how to MIG in a couple days of practicing with chunks of scrap) All the associated stuff (mask, gloves, etc) you can pick up at home depot-decent gloves to protect your hands-a mask/goggles can get expensive if you get the auto-darkening kind ($100+) The Hobart welder comes with a regulator, and hose. I don't use a respirator often-I usually make sure I'm welding in a well vented area-unless you're working with galvanized metal (the gases given off are very nasty crap) Hope all this rambling helps Jim [ June 24, 2001: Message edited by: jimzdat ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 24, 2001 Share Posted June 24, 2001 As Jim said, Hobart makes nice welders, as does Lincoln and Miller. I've used all three and really the price would decide which I'd buy, they're all pretty comparable. 110V welders are pretty handy because you don't have to have a special circuit for 220V. 220 is nice to have because you can do really thick metal with it, but my lincoln 110v welder will do up to 1/4" metal in a pass which is a good size for most automotive and sheetmetal applications. Tig isn't better for all applications, it is real expensive. To get one that welds aluminum is nearly $1400-1800.00. Its also a slow process, you heat the metal with the electrode and manually feed welding wire into the weld. This makes it about on part speedwise of gas welding, but it has the heat concentrated to a smaller area so warpage is minimized. Tig is used most often in aluminum because of the nicely finished welds. Interestingly enough, the aircraft guys usually use gas welding on aluminum because of better penetration than TIG. The difference in commercial welders is usually the circuitry allows you to weld on it longer before it gets to hot and shuts down till it cools off (duty cycle its called, and with most automotive applications you won't weld long enough to worry about this) I know I probably went into more detail than necessary (don't I always?), but if I had to pick three of the 110v welders it would be (in no particular order): Hobart Handler 135: Probably a better value, has the gas regulator and stuff already. Lincoln SP-100T (downside is it requires a gas upgrade of 100.00 for Mig operation, it comes as a fluxcore model) Miller Millermatic 130 XP MIG Welder: A tad more expensive than above, but also a quality welder. Price for the whole lot will vary alot depending on the size of the bottle you use, what gas mixture (argon, argon mix, C02), what type of helmet you get, etc. For the bottle's check with a welding supply place (you may want to do that for a complete package that some of them put together). The helmets can range from about 35.00 (old huntsman like I still have after 19yrs) to the more newfangled automatic darkening ones that can go over 110.00 + . Gloves, I used harbor freight leather under 10.00 bux for gantlet gloves is a steal and they work fine. Hope that helps a bit, Lone [ June 24, 2001: Message edited by: lonehdrider ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 Lone has covered this pretty well. One nice thing about TIG's is that its really easy to switch setups for different materials. A couple button pushes, and all you have to do is grab the rod of the right material. Whereas MIG's changing over is a bit more of a pain. TIG's can be slow though, no doubt. TIG's are more flexable... I've welded at 6amps with one before, and at 255amps! Not many other things will let you weld such a huge range of material thickness. (in the case of the 6amps I was welding SS tubing, .035wall) All that said, I bought a MIG for my only welder at home. Cheaper by far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MM_280Z Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 Thanks guys, very helpful stuff. (I appreciate the detail lone). Hobart should have the better price but on eBay there's a Lincoln SP-100T for $390 buy it now. The Hobarts are bid up over $400. The Lincoln is at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1608552331 I'd buy this except for the gas upgrade issue. BUT, the description says it comes with the gas regulator: "Advantage Lincoln Package includes gun and cable, work clamp and cable, gas regulator, handshield, video and spool of wire. " Does this mean that I wouldn't need to purchase a "gas upgrade?" What exactly needs to be different for the gas-capable models? Just a different gun right? So if I get the right one (with regulator) all I need to get additional is a bottle og gas correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 If it says gas regulator in there, then it sounds like its set for gas. I may have mistated what the SP -100T comes with, Sorry my bad, I have the Weldpak 100 which is about the same, but the gas kit is optional. The gas kit adds a gas solenoid (to turn the gas on and off to the gun), gas bottle regulator and hose and a new gas type nozzle and I believe they give another liner and pinch rollers for use with aluminum but can't say for sure as I havn't purchased it yet. Yeah, if its set for gas (as it sounds like it does from your description) then, yeah you just add a bottle of gas and make sparks! Either of those welders will do a good job for you. Once you get used to using them you'll find them so handy its hard to believe. I needed a LONG nut driver to put my AC evaporator in my car, well I came up with a cheap nutdriver tip, welded it to some 3/8" rod I had and voila instant 14" nutdriver for my drill! The welder makes it so much easier to get creative quickly. Good luck with it, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MM_280Z Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 Oh! Ya I double checked the stats on the Lincoln website. The SP-100T comes setup for argon-CO2 welding. What kinda prblems might I expect from a cheaper welder. I saw some on eBay that looked good but they weren't one of the names you mentioned. Anyone ever hear of Century, Solar, MigMate, or FirePower? Thre's even one that has a NAPA logo on the front (maybe out of a NAPA shop?) No good for me but those of you wanting 220V units might check out http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1608766959 I think I'll go for that $390 SP-100T. This is cool I can fix my OWN broken sway bar mount! Thanks all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 A welder is one of the best tools in my shop. all the brands mentioned are great don't go to cheap. my first was a pos made in italy and i put it in the dumpster rather than sell it. I found a great deal on a century from northern hydraulics and my first weld w as better than any with the pos from italy. plan on both flux wire and gas (use c25) the flux wire will let you weld in a light breeze and the co2/argon will give you better flow and make your work look like you know what your doing. the down side to having a welder is all the stuff you'll want next/ grinders, chopsaw, welding table, more C clamps than seems normal, vice grips and then, the the big hit....A plasma cutter(damn I love my plasma cutter) don't get one rated at 1/4 go for at least 3/8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 25, 2001 Share Posted June 25, 2001 I'd love to have a plasma cutter as well. We had one in the shop I worked in and it was soooo cool. Cutting brackets and such is just so much easier and quicker than a gas cutting torch and with simple hardboard templates easily repeatable. Real accurate and intricate cuts are a snap. Its definitely on my 'Honey, this is what I really need' list along with a Tig. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 Don't know if you got the welder already, but DON'T...DON'T get a Craftsman. They use all these imported parts and they just plain suck...it took almost 2 months to get mine fixed, and then something else broke on it 2 days later! Inside started snapcracklepopping and then started smoking. I put my put through it and bought a new one. I got the Hobart Handler 135 for $431 this past saturday, comes with a regulator but is setup for flux core. It may not be the best but it's got a 3 year warranty and almost any shop will have parts for it. I weld with .023" up to .035" with no problems on it yet. Don't know about other machines but the Handler 135 is electrically cold until you pull the trigger, the Craftsman wasn't, so now I can literally push the wire up against where I want to weld before flipping my lens down. Get some auto darkening lenses if ya got the money. Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MM_280Z Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 No I didn't buy one yet. That listing I was looking at was kinda weird. It said Free Shipping in the location but in the red text it said "Buyer pays Shipping." Also buyer pays Escrow. Escrow?! On a Welder?! In any case the seller set off my BS detectors with the ad so I passed. Does the Lincoln do cold-until-trigger too? That sounds like a good idea esp if you don't have an auto-dark helmet. Can't see sheit till you start welding, maybe in the wrong place! And about auto-dark helmets. Sounds like a good place to splurge in terms of convenience. I've seen them for under $100 but are those any good? BTW jimzdat, where does one find the Hobart 135 for $335?! I can't find one under $400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 Yeah, most of the domestic welders from the big three (Miller, Lincoln and Hobart (and probably several other smaller companies I have no knowledge of)) are cold trigger machines. Only some of the cheap imports use a hot trigger (which is pretty silly really, who wants to get flash burn while trying to get the wire on the weld where you want it). Regards, Lone [ June 25, 2001: Message edited by: lonehdrider ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 Not that silly, the same way Arc welding works... After you flash yourself a few dozen times it stops hurting anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimzdat Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 I saw a couple on ebay 2 weeks ago for that price-guess I didn't realize they were quite that high-I bought mine from the power plant I work at-got the welder and a little off-road cart for $200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno74Z Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 All, I found this Website a while back and thought it may be of interest. http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv Danno74Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 Plasma cutters are great and all, but don't underestimate what can be done with a well cared for oxy-acetalyne setup. Its entirely possible to get NICE quality edges with a torch, you just have to have a steady hand and a good guide. That said, plasma cutters are way faster and easier to use. Just expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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