at-jefft Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Hey, When I got my car the previous owner advertised a new water pump was installed. He didn't meantion that the bottom (12mm) bolt was broken and had sheared off inside the block. The end of what is left of the bolt is recessed a in the block. The problem is that both my screw extractor and tap are too short to reach the bolt. I think my only options here are a long screw extractor or long tap. I looked for both online and could not find a extra long screw extractor but I did find a long tap but it is on ebay and have never heard of the brand. LINK Anybody have any other ideas other than trying the no-name tap on ebay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 You're talking about doing this without removing the timing cover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
at-jefft Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 Ahhh, I knew there was a solution to this. What is involved it taking the timing cover off? Anything I gotta make sure of or does it just unbolt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatBlack Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 There is a bolt behind the oil pump [it's hard to see it if you leave the pump on] Don't forget it, I cracked a front cover once because I didn't get that bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
at-jefft Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 Thanks everyone. I'm gonna go make an attempt to take the timing cover off now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolonelklink87 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Thanks everyone. I'm gonna go make an attempt to take the timing cover off now. Once the crank pulley is off take the key out and put it somewhere safe untill you've put everything else back on; wouldn't want to bump it and lose it somewhere on the floor or sump - ive had some close calls with that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Taking the cover off is pretty harsh and could net you a lot more work than you are interested in doing. If you really want to do it properly, the cover must come off. Remember that there are those two small bolts going downward from the head into the cover and the ones coming up from the pan. I'll venture a guess the water pump is leaking. If it is but the cover is not leaking between it and the block, a hack solution could be threading the cover itself with a top and using a larger bolt as well as drilling the water pump hole for that bolt larger and using a shorter bolt to hold it to cover.........again....provided the cover is not leaking. You also cannot let the tap bottom out on the bolt or it will put force trying to spread the cover and block apart.....causing a leak. I'd only recommend this if you're stranded somewhere far from home but I once had to do this to get my only source of transportation on the road so I could get to work and it ended up lasting lasted 4 years. Again....only if there are no leaks between the front cover and the block since high pressure does pass from cover to block and could fail the gasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
at-jefft Posted August 4, 2009 Author Share Posted August 4, 2009 Update: I got the cover off and the bolt had been drilled out a bit by the PO. The hole was off center. I tired to correct for the of centerness of the hole but It turned out that the hole I tapped was too far off to get the bolt threaded when the cover is back on. What now??? I figure I gotta start fresh some how. I have a cheap welder I could fill the hole and try again, would that be an acceptable plan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatBlack Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Drill it out and helicoil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolonelklink87 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Drill it out and helicoil? and the cover if necessary? maybe we should see some pics of how off center etc before recommending drilling? While you're in there FSM recommends gasket change on front cover, water pump and oil seal, an extra bit of work but almost definately worth it. "timing cover kit" cost like $10? You may also need to use a sh**load of sealant around the pump outlet depending on how corroded it is. Mine was stuffed and i ended up needing to change the front cover for a spare to do the job properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrustnut Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I don't know if drill and helicoil would work if the hole is off center. The only way to fix that IMO would be to up-size the hole to re-center it, then your talking drilling the cover as well, which would make me nervous, this is the block were talking about. Maybe fill, then re-drill, but you would want the weld pretty perfect (no voids) then drill, helicoil. Any of these options I would want the block right in front of me which would mean pulling it out of the car. This is a touchy repair, you want it right the first time. Pics would be nice, maybe its not that big a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
at-jefft Posted August 4, 2009 Author Share Posted August 4, 2009 Drill it out and helicoil? What would be the advantage to drilling it out and putting a helicoil in; as opposed to drilling it out and tapping it? Another Update: I welded up the off center hole, and then re-drilled a centered hole.(still following) It was going good until I went up a few too many drill sizes(it was getting late) and the bit snagged and took some of the weld with it. I'm gonna try and prep the hole better and go slower with the drill but I'm giving it another shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrustnut Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 My thinking would be with a helicoil you have less chance of what just happened to you happening when you tighten the bolt down. Maybe with the coil in it will give the area around the repair a little more strength and make it less likely to break out. Not sure if the hole your talking about goes into a water jacket, I think some might. In that case you might want to seal the helicoil to the block. Take your time on this one, I don't think its a late night rush into it fix. You mess it up too bad and your out of options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
at-jefft Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 Today, I picked up a helicoil kit and drilled it and tapped it. As I was backing the tap out a chunk of the weld came out but the helicoil seems to still have enough to hold. The hole is still not perfectly centered but I believe the repair will be ok for a while and it will certainly be better than no bolt(how i got the car). What can i fill the empy space left by the weld? pics: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatBlack Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I wonder if you put lock-tite on there if it'll hold... I'm not sure if it will or not. You're supposed to break off the tab on the back of the helicoil after you put it in, that's why it has the 'notch' in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
at-jefft Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 I wonder if you put lock-tite on there if it'll hold... I'm not sure if it will or not. You're supposed to break off the tab on the back of the helicoil after you put it in, that's why it has the 'notch' in it. o so thats what the autozone directions were telling me. They were obviously not written in english first. Too late to break it off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatBlack Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I'm pretty sure you can get some skinny needlenose pliers down in there and wiggle it off Just wondering - How are you going to get all of those metal shavings off the chain and such? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolonelklink87 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 you're gonna want to clean all those metal shavings pretty well before putting everything back together - plug all the channels and the sump with foam, i wouldnt use an air hose as it might just spray them onto the timing chain; lots of oil, degreaser, cloth and a soft touch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrustnut Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 You might want to try gap filling lock-tite...I think its green. That might be too much gap though. I think it looks pretty good considering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
at-jefft Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 I was thinking of using air and then pouring some oil down the chain. but to be honest it really wasn't my first concern. Anybody think jbweld would be better than lock-tite? I'm just thinking about thermal expansion and lock-tite. What kind of foam are you thinking of Kolonel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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