40flash Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I have a VQ with engine loom and engine compartment loom. I do not have the under dash loom. As a result I am considering having Doug at Z fever modify my engine loom and stock computer. He has the ability to by-pass the NATS system and re-wire the loom so it could be installed in nearly anything it would seem. Myron posted a video of Doug with a VQ sitting on the floor being started and running just fine, so it appears that it can be done. Here is my Question. Since this conversion doesn't require the under dash loom, I am assuming the car would not have the OBD11 port for diagnostic work. How bad do I need it? Will anyone be able to figure out what problem the car may have in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I'm sure anybody who would be doing the splicing could be coerced to extend the very few wires necessary to put the connector somewhere that it can be used. I usually (not VQ but in my job as an ecu tester/rebuilder of all makes) just snip one off at the junkyard and run wires to the proper terminals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40flash Posted August 4, 2009 Author Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) That is the heart of the question. The terminal I assume is on the under dash loom of a late model 350Z. Can that terminal be sliced into the wiring loom of a 1971 240z? Or does it get spliced into the 350Z engine loom or engine compartment loom? I have both of these but no under dash loom. I can't procede with my project until I know if I need to come up with an under dash loom or not. HELP! Edited August 4, 2009 by 40flash spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 At this point it'd be likely easier to come up with an under dash harness. I have a spare that I might not use since it's a DE harness, and my engine is a HR. I was only holding onto it incase I was missing any connectors. In any case If you have the ECU reprogrammed, they're going to cut out a lot of systems that the ECU and BCM use, obviously, but does that include OBDII (consult3) compatibility? I would expect not, since in that video it looked like he was connected through the OBD port. Really you should call them up and see what you need to bring them and be clear as to what they will be doing for you. Getting it running w/o all the extras is one thing, but running as stock may be another. It is cool they were able to do that.. If you need my harness, send me a pm. I think it's from an 06. Phar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40flash Posted August 4, 2009 Author Share Posted August 4, 2009 At this point it'd be likely easier to come up with an under dash harness. I have a spare that I might not use since it's a DE harness, and my engine is a HR. I was only holding onto it incase I was missing any connectors. In any case If you have the ECU reprogrammed, they're going to cut out a lot of systems that the ECU and BCM use, obviously, but does that include OBDII (consult3) compatibility? I would expect not, since in that video it looked like he was connected through the OBD port. Really you should call them up and see what you need to bring them and be clear as to what they will be doing for you. Getting it running w/o all the extras is one thing, but running as stock may be another. It is cool they were able to do that.. If you need my harness, send me a pm. I think it's from an 06. Phar I just hauled all of my wiring out to the driveway to take some pics. It is difficult to know what I need if I don't know for certain what I have. I will try and attatch the pics and maybe you can identify this stuff. There is definately a large gromet that goes through the firewall into the interior of the car and then plugs into the ECU. I think the black box is the automatic ECU. The silver box may be a manual ECU? That is what I was told. There doesn't seem to be a plug on the wiring loom that it will fit it. After about three attempts to upload images I have decided that I am not only iliterate when it comes to wiring, I can't manage to figure out computers either. I can E-mail pics though. Maybe if I can figure out what parts I need I can do all the fab work and hire someone to do the wiring. http://s859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/40flash/?start=40 Can anyone tell if there is a OBD2 access port in the wiring I have in the pics? I don't know what one looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcheeze36 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Not sure what the silver box in your pics is...maybe for the navigation? My 06' manual ECU looks just like the black one in your pics, but mine's silver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I just hauled all of my wiring out to the driveway to take some pics. It is difficult to know what I need if I don't know for certain what I have. I will try and attatch the pics and maybe you can identify this stuff. There is definately a large gromet that goes through the firewall into the interior of the car and then plugs into the ECU. I think the black box is the automatic ECU. The silver box may be a manual ECU? That is what I was told. There doesn't seem to be a plug on the wiring loom that it will fit it. After about three attempts to upload images I have decided that I am not only iliterate when it comes to wiring, I can't manage to figure out computers either. I can E-mail pics though. Maybe if I can figure out what parts I need I can do all the fab work and hire someone to do the wiring. http://s859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/40flash/?start=40 Can anyone tell if there is a OBD2 access port in the wiring I have in the pics? I don't know what one looks like. Okay... Lets see what I can ID. first here's your pict #2. THe Black box is of course your ECU. I think the large white plug above it is the body Harness connector. If you DL the FSM it'll give better picts to match up. The plugs above that I think are for the fusebox.. The gromet is for the firewall. This looks like the engine compartment harness. The plugs outside the grommet should be the ABS actuator. then the plastic tranny tunnel harness protector, then down to what I think are the tranny sensors. After that theres a bunch I am not sure about, I know the headlights and fans and such also run off this same harness. What I did with mine was that I got a roll of tape and just started labelling plugs as I figured what they were with the FSM. it really helped a lot. The G35 FSM might help you more since you said that's what this is from, though it does look really similar to the 350z. Phar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Wiring in the appropriate wires for the dash harness would be easy. In fact you could probably just cut the body connector off and put new connectors on there to mate up to the DBW pedal, nats, and diagnostic port. I would prolly do that if i do mine again. The three connectors extending off the page to the top near your ecu are all your power connectors basically. I think they just figured out how to make the ecu run without the bcm, which shouldn't change how it runs, just weather it runs or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40flash Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 Wiring in the appropriate wires for the dash harness would be easy. In fact you could probably just cut the body connector off and put new connectors on there to mate up to the DBW pedal, nats, and diagnostic port. I would prolly do that if i do mine again. The three connectors extending off the page to the top near your ecu are all your power connectors basically. I think they just figured out how to make the ecu run without the bcm, which shouldn't change how it runs, just weather it runs or not. So it is possible to wire in a diagnostic port. That helps. I am still a newbie and am trying to figure out what I need and what I don't. I just found out from Eric that BCM stands for Body control module. I have no Idea what that does or if it is crucial to the project. Same with the IPDM (integrated digital power management) unit. What do they do and do I need them? Sorry for all the questions but I have to start somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Yeah I mislabelled that, my manual says IPDM is intelligent power distribution module. It's the underhood fusebox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I guess a good question is, where did the ECU and harness come from, your G35, or the 350Z. and what year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spent Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 So it is possible to wire in a diagnostic port. That helps. I am still a newbie and am trying to figure out what I need and what I don't. I just found out from Eric that BCM stands for Body control module. I have no Idea what that does or if it is crucial to the project. Same with the IPDM (integrated digital power management) unit. What do they do and do I need them? Sorry for all the questions but I have to start somewhere. From what I understand, removing the BCM will put the car in some sort of "Safe Mode". Unless, of course, you have someone reflash the ecu so it does not need the ecu to properly run... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40flash Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 I guess a good question is, where did the ECU and harness come from, your G35, or the 350Z. and what year? My engine and harness with ECU comes from a 2004 G35 with automatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40flash Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 From what I understand, removing the BCM will put the car in some sort of "Safe Mode". Unless, of course, you have someone reflash the ecu so it does not need the ecu to properly run... I need to find the video and watch it again but I think that there was no BCM in the system yet they obviously reved it up well past a safe mode limit. Possibly they bypassed the safe mode or BCM when they bypassed the NATS system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40flash Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 Here is the video from zfever in case someone missed it. No NATS, No BCM, No electronics except the ECU. Very encouraging for me. There is a chance I could get this thing running in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 The BCM is what powers the nats and routes the signal to the ECU. It is required if you want to run the NATS system. The IPDM is not required for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spent Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 The BCM is what powers the nats and routes the signal to the ECU. It is required if you want to run the NATS system. The IPDM is not required for anything. So if you were to remove just NATS from ecu, you could remove BCM without any troubles? So this means what? To JUST make the engine run, nothing else, do you need anything more than the main engine harness and the ECU? After BRIEFLY looking over the FSM, the engine BAY harness did not seem necessary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40flash Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 So if you were to remove just NATS from ecu, you could remove BCM without any troubles? So this means what? To JUST make the engine run, nothing else, do you need anything more than the main engine harness and the ECU? After BRIEFLY looking over the FSM, the engine BAY harness did not seem necessary? I looks to me like the engine harness goes through the firewall and into the interior of the car and has the ECU plug on it and that is all they appear to have on the video. The optional loom as far as I am learning is the interior loom that has the BCM, IPDM, Gauge cluster wiring and the diagnostic port. I am trying to decide whether or not to go with the interior loom so I can get the diagnostic port or can I just splice in the diagnostic port itself. This whole thing would be so much easier if Austin would just sell me his car so he begin a new one and fix all the stuff he would like to do different!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 IF you can figure out how to trick the ECU into seeing the nats signal or not needing it then yes you could remove the BCM. You dont need anything except the following stuff to make the engine run IF you can figure out how to get rid of the nats: ECU, Engine Harness, Diagnostics Port, Electronic Throttle. Having a Diag Port is MANDATORY regaurdless. You engine will obviously run without it but good luck trying to figure out any problems you might have lol. If you want to buy my car money talks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Also remember that most (not all) manufacturers use a different set of wires for the scan tool interface than are used for communication between modules. Also.....as mentioned above some manufacturers require a body control module to be there for the ecu to communicate with other modules since BCM's are deemed the master in many communication schemes. In chryslers, they went from CCD communication that had all modules in a sort of peer to peer arrangement but they later went to PCI communication which had the BCM as the master and it was required to a certain extent. Beating the anti-theft with the current products out there now usually requires you to have most, if not, all of the stock modules operating. If you cannot do that, then a "calibration file" would have to be modified to convince the ecu that it doesn't have to wait for the anti-theft hardware to send a "yes you can start" signal. It is much easier to fool the module that handles anti-theft into thinking it sees the proper key and let it send the "ok to fuel" signal to the ecu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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