PHOTO RADAR

[Guest Anonymous]

Is there anyone familar with photo radar in

their area? It's goning to be introduced here

in Jan 2001. Are there any successful counter

measures for this system? I heard about a license

plate cover called "the Protector" is effective.

Any feedback will be welcome!!

Aloha,

Sunny

[Ray]

just lose or make your front plate unreadable... On my truck all I did was bend the plate mount alot... Now if a cop stops me I have a plate... another angle I have seen is to use a hinge at the top of the plate... just make it so in the picture they cant read the plate.....

[Guest Locutus]

The last I heard was Texas Law currently prohibits the use any devices of that type. IE photo radar, red light photos, etc. Thats a good thing in my opinion

[Ray]

I forgot to say I grew up in Califorina where photo radar is used and travel alot.. sorry for the confusion...

[BLKMGK]

I'm pretty dead set against photo radar. Around here they have signs that say "Aggressive driver imaging in effect". This makes it sound like they're going after the guys weaving in and out of traffic doesn't it? Nope - its photo radar except they know if they simply said this that people would riot. To call it Aggressive driver imaging puts a spin on it such that anyone bitching is obviously going against the public's good. Grr!

 

As fo rred light cameras - I used to also be dead set against those. However more an dmore I've noticed people blowing through red lights! I used to think it was just here too until I spent a bit of time out of town. WTF is wrong with people? I see folks blowing red lights all the time and I know of at least one where during rush hour you can see as many as TEN cars go through the red light. It's crazy! I'm actually beginning to support these things simply because people appear to be too stupid to understand basic rules of the road and respect the drivers around them. Apparently it's going to take having cameras on the red lights to get people to drive correctly. How sad is that?!

[Guest RXO510]

We have alot of stop light cameras here in southern CA. I do know that some people have fought the ticket they received from these cameras and have won their cases even though there is a photo showing the violation they committed. Not sure of the technical term or how they won their case, but they did. So it may be a visual aid to hopefully slow down the people that like to blow through the red lights. All I know is that the ticket you get can be fought in court and won. So is it even worth the trouble of putting these up?

[DavyZ]

They installed the photocameras (photoradar?) in out town at the major intersections. I don't think it is a bad idea, BUT what if you NEED to go through or get out of the way on a red light?? I was at a red light for 7 minutes (waited through 3 cycles before the stupid light came my way) and I almost said 'screw it!' and blew through the light. I ended up not doing it, but it made me angry to know I almost would have had points on my record for having to get to my destination! Machines can make mistakes IMO and I hope I don't have to put up with the stupid things in that way. I hate being monitored by the government in general, but I do see these things snapping off pictures of blantant violators. They do work. Since my city is a path for motorists to travel through to the surrounding cities, the problem of redlight runners and people that 'push the yellow' is becoming too much of a problem. This may help alleviate the redlight runners and the like. Anyway, just food for thought.

 

BTW, if you have to disguise your license plates because you don't want to get photographed by these cameras at intersections, take a good look at how you drive--are you running red lights?? If so, maybe you should not be driving?

 

Davy

[Guest RXO510]

http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/2001-09-05-judge-nixes-red-light-cams.htm

http://www.doe-mbi.ucla.edu/~dha/intersection_cameras.html

These are just a few articles you can look at to see the discussion on this subject. There are many more. Just look under stop light cameras on the search engine you like to use.

[DavyZ]

Whoa! James, the article that you emailed me gave information that the company that installed the cameras get a portion on the revenue. That is not good IMO, because their interest is would lie in making money...so if the system has 'flaws' it is in their financial interest. What would have been better is to give them money based on how flawlesly their system operates (ie the fewer the problems, the higher the return).

 

This information completely changes the outlook in many ways. And it may actually explain why I was stuck at that light!!! Maybe they were just waiting for me to get mad and run the redlight?? Could it be?? Very disconcerting IMO.

 

Again, thanks to James (RXO510) for the email and the additional information.

 

BTW, the cities that have this in place already will do their utmost to keep it there and keep it running. Why? They have spent $$$$$ installing these things and get income from them too. Plus, it is cheaper than employing a police officer and the lights never have to take a coffee & donut break, ever.

 

I'm for a limited amount of use of these devices, only at 'bad' intersections, but I don't like monitoring devices in general

 

Davy

[Dan Juday]

Save your high speed driving for the track or sparsely populated areas and you won't have to worry about having your picture taken. Sorry, gettin' old. Lots of people die in car crashes in my neck of the woods. Mostly due to excess speed for conditions.

My only connection to those things is through my nephew. He is not a speeder or aggressive driver. He's a bad driver. Hit a PARKED car once while fishing a cassette tape out of the glove box! But he's not a speeder. So when he got a photo radar ticket for speeding and swore he wasn't I believed him. He fought it and won. The judge was old (like me ) and wasn't convinced of the technology I suspect.

[Guest Anonymous]

Davy,

 

you are very right about the companies recieving revenue for tickets given. Here in san diego the cameras were all shut off for a while, and some people got their money back, because there was a scandal of sorts that the lights were timed very fast, as in, green, yellow for less than a sec, red. I think they might be back on now, but I'm not sure.

 

Kris

[DavyZ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ZGimp:

Davy,

 

you are very right about the companies recieving revenue for tickets given...

---

 

 

Yep, that's what one article said happened. IMO this is NOT the best thing because it is not in the public's best ineterest. If there are scandals surrounding these things, maybe it is a good idea to buy items meant to 'camophlage' your license plate.

 

Dan, I agree with you on the speeding issue--best kept for the track or the boonies. Where I live, many business parks still have some business going on during the weekends. Plus, the police sometimes patrol those areas so they are off limits IMO.

 

Davy

[Guest mtj71Z]

what if you are not the driver of the car? i.e. ur mom/dad/spouse/sibling wutever is driving. well.....that would be my excuse would it work?

[Guest Anonymous]

then you fight the ticket and have to prove it wasn't you, and the person driving gets the ticket. no luck there man, you could try to say the car was stolen

[BLKMGK]

Yup, it's true the companies don't sell these devices, they lease them in such a way as to get a portion of the income from them. I believe that is WRONG. Just as I believe it's WRONG for insurance companies like GEICO to GIVE radar guns to various police forces

 

There's a light in D.C. that was higlighted once. It was a flashing yellow 3 way. On one side of the intersection was a parking garage. As cars came up the ramp to get into the mainstream of traffic the flashing yellow would go RED to let them in. The placed a redlight camera at this intersection and were racking up THOUSANDS of dollars a day in fines! It was eventually caught and much money refunded but NOT all of it. Think about that traffic situation and you'll see why this was crap - there was NO way for the oncoming driver to know if the light was going to turn red or just flash to yellow again.... Still, setup correctly I'm starting to believe that redlight cameras might be of SOME worth. Either that or police actually need to start enforcing this - I've seen redlights run with police sitting at the intersection as the first car - no pursuit of the offender. Hrm, some studies of places where cameras have been put in place have found that yellow are short - even in cases where traffic engineers recommended longer yellows. Gee, no revenue incentive there is there?

 

Photoradar on the other hand is just plain wrong. These too get the % kickback to the manufacturer. Set that puppy within a few miles of the speed limit on a straight road and rack up the tickets! In some countries where these are often seen citizens have begun burning, shooting, and vandalizing the ameras. Think the local Govt. is getting the message? IMO this is the perfect example as to when civil disobedience should be excercised

[Guest Anonymous]

Not too add any fuel to the fire, but accidents at the intersections with the cameras have gone up 3 to 4 times here in NC. Basically people know the cameras are there (via a sign, duh!) and they slam on the brakes at any sign of a yellow light. This of course, causes more a lot of rear-end jobs. There is a lady that has sued because her kid got hurt badly in an accident at a light with a camera. A lady stopped suddenly and the kid hit her. She told the cops she stopped because the light turned and she did not want a ticket. A lot of people are watching this to see what comes out of it.

 

On the issue of getting the ticket over-turned or thrown out...good luck! If its your car and not reported stolen before that picture is taken, thats too bad! There attitude is -- you should not let anyone drive your car that is going to break the law, and if they do it will cost you $50. If you don't pay, you can not register your car when it comes due; you can not renew your license; you can not get your inspection. These are just a few of the ways they can get you if you don't pay. They also charge interest.

 

I read a very funny article here in Charlotte about a guy who got a ticket in the mail. He then takes a picture of his hand shooting the 'bird' and sent that back instead of the payment. A few days later he got the ticket again, but instead of his car in the picture, they sent him a pic of a pair of handcuffs! He paid the fine. I got a kick out of that.

 

Even after all this, I'm still for the cameras. People used too run lights like crazy. I don't see it that much anymore. Here in NC, they only have about 7-8 cameras and they rotate them at probably 40 or so intersections. You never know where they are, but it keeps you honest!

 

FWIW...your insurance co. never knows. Its just $50 fine, no points.

 

tom

[tsumner]

How can they charge you of a crime if they (the govt.) can't prove it was you driving. This is contrary to one of the basic tenents of our legal system. You are innocent until proven guilty.It is the prosecutions job to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Tom

[DavyZ]

The whole thing wreaks of dead hampsters I tell you.

 

Funny story that came to mind yesterday when I was thinking about this stuff:

 

My mother's second husband was a well connected man who was photo'd by one of these gagets in Germany (they were citizens) where they have been using them for years. Well, he called up a buddy at the DMV office in Munich where they lived and fixed it so that the points would go on my mother's license instead of his! lol Haha! He never bothered to tell her about it, but only everyone else. Too funny! I guess the pictures are pretty clear and faces show up very well--kinda unmistakable who the driver is.

 

It doesn't matter, I still hate 'em.

 

Davy

[Len]

Possibly a good argument if ticketed in California and possibly also in Hawaii.

First be sure and keep a straight face;

Tell the judge at that particular time when you traveled thru the red light; you were having an out of body experience discussing the problems of our overburdened legal sysum(that was to stroke the judge). Then show the judge from the photo that if you look real closely you will make out hanging judge parker(who by the way wanted to say Hi and to thank you; your honor for all the good work you have done over the years!).

Therefore since I was talking to Hanging Judge Parker who died over 80 years ago. There is just no way that I could have been existing at that intersection at the time said picture was taken. Further in the past alot of my outer body experiences do show up on photos at intersections. But If anybody ever tried to make contact with my car they would find they would travel right thru me with no damage....Therefore there was not any chance of collision or damage if anyone hit me during said experience. So I am no threat to traffic or society!......Hmmm!

( I'm sorry guys I just had a serious knee operation and this codene is messing with me!)

P.S please don't be offended with beginning statement concerning Calif. or Hawaii. It is only that We don't have them thar photo machines here in OK. We don't even have a front licence...I did notice a guy at one intersection with cardboard and a felt pen perhaps he is tracing all the cars that run the red lights to give to police at a later date. Or maybe He just had a work for food sign.

[pparaska]

They get around the "breaking the law" thing by saying that it's a fine for an infraction, or some such mumbo-jumbo.

 

I agree that red-light running has increased greatly in the 23 years I've been driving, as well as all the other rude and other bad driving I see.

 

I agree that red light cameras DO have a positive effect as they keep most people from blatantly running them. The people who get caught on camera are the poor souls that are runnng up on a yellow at speed and happen to enter the intersection just as it goes red. The real shame of this is that the other direction does not get a green for a few seconds after the light that just went red, so there's no chance of a collision from the person who enters the intersection as it turns red or within a second of it turning red. It's a wasted ticket as far as keeping people safe. This may well be why you see officers not pursue this type of "gray area" infraction. They might cause a more dangerous situation by going through the intersection if THEY have the red.

 

Another issue with these lights and cameras is that it's been shown that some juridictions that put up these cameras also LESSEN the length of time that the camera'd lights have for the yellow light, so that they are setting people up for running a red light after a SHORT yellow. This has been in the papers locally and on 20/20 I believe.

 

Unfortunately, if many people weren't so self -centered in general, we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

 

Speeding cameras - those I really despise. The way Germany does this would be one LARGE reason I'd never consider living there. What a Draconian method of speed enforcement! I know it exists to some extent in my area (DC Beltway), but it seems Germany is rampant with this BS.