josh817 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I'm wanting to get rid of my gas tank and use a fuel cell. Nothing fancy since I won't be racing in any clubs. Doing a fuel cell for dual exhaust since my tank has a sump welded onto it. I'm looking at some of those black plastic tanks. Need a 12 gallon tank with a sending unit. Here's the deal though... I can't find the plastic type of that size with a sending unit so I looked at the metal case ones except those don't have the sump in them... I'm seeing Summit has a 16 gallon plastic with a sending unit which I guess will be fine but they have 0-90ohms, 70-10ohm, 240-33ohm, etc I don't know which one I need for a stock gauge (fuel and voltmeter, not fuel and ammeter) ah! So my question is, how does everyone like their plastic cells, will the 0-90ohm unit on these new tanks fine with our stock fuel gauge, and lastly, anyone using the stock filler for their cell? Plastic fuel cells look kinda cheesy but hey, it will be hidden. Oh and also, for dual pickups racers generally use dual pumps, however I'm not doing that. I thought about maybe have the two joined together at a T and then going into one hose to the pump however if fuel sloshes over, the pump is going to get air from one of the sides so the whole concept is ruined? Not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrustnut Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I am sort of in your same position, I have been throwing around the fuel cell idea for a while now. I don't think you can use the stock filler because most cells have the filler directly on top, trying to route your stock filler to it would be challenging. I'm sure it could be done, just not sure I would want to put the effort into it. As far as the ohm scale, I'm pretty sure GM uses 0-90 and if no one gets back to you, just pull the gauge and check it empty and full. As for fuel sloshing, I think most tanks are baffled so that fuel sloshing is kept at a minimum. I don't think it would work as well in a racing application, but for street driving I would think one pickup would be fine. If you want to be 110% sure, build a slosh box. Not sure how much this helps, just helping you bounce ideas. Let me know if you find somthing out about the ohm reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin.pk Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 you can cut a hole in the 12 gallon plastic cell to add a sending unit. I think the stock empty fuel gauge is 80ohms empty and 10ohms full.. I'd do a search to be sure. Just put a cap on the other other pick up. With that said.... I regret changing out to a plastic fuel cell. I wish I still had the stock fuel door and the rest of the stock setup with a sump welded on. It does provide plenty of room for dual exhaust but I actually put my battery in that extra space instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 I don't think the cheap ones have any sort of baffling in them, because well... they're cheap. I'm pretty sure its just a plastic tank and the fuel either sits in a bladder or it sits right in the tank. The metal case ones are simply a metal box built around a plastic tank because most rules say the tank has to be encased in metal. My main concern is the resistance. I asked Dad how I could find out what full and empty was and the only think we can think of is just fill the tank all the way, run it down all the way and measure those two points. I did a search and can't find anything definite. Only thing close was how to get your autometer gauge to read properly and it shows like "stock unit" and "gauge" but I don't think that applies for me. I'll take another look at it. I already planned on doing a resistor setup like he did if I need to. My tank has a sump on it but the sump angles towards the front, I'm use to them angle towards the rear so it scares me with these horror thoughts of it catching on something freak me out but I figured if anything hits that, the direction of the angle won't matter, I'll still have a huge hole in the bottom. The previous owner made it himself and he said he had drilled a hole in the bottom of the original tank, maybe like a 3" hole, and then he welded on the sump, so it kind of makes a whole separate tank on the bottom. Pretty cool, makes it so that fuel can't slosh out of the sump area because it would have to travel up and through the hole. Not too concerned about the pickup thing because even with a proper dual pump setup, if the fuel does slosh to one side, what stops the one pump from blowing air into the fuel line when the 2 converge. I was thinking if I take off the hard plastic fuel pipe that goes from the filler cap and through the inside of the car, replace that with a giant rubber hose. If not, I don't mind opening the hatch and filling. Keep the fill cap over to one side rather than right in the center of the hatch. I rarely fill the back up all the way because the car will squat. Haha They do make giant 3" and 4" "remote" fuel lines too. Just get that and utilize your stock filler. You get a bad case of Dragon-ass when you do that. Last time I transported an L24 and its head back to the house.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turborust Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 The stock sending unit should be 90 empty and 10 full. Here is a write up about using aftermarket gauges to work with the stock sending unit. Maybe the info can be applied to use the stock gauge with a different sending unit. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=127605 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 The stock sending unit should be 90 empty and 10 full. Here is a write up about using aftermarket gauges to work with the stock sending unit. Maybe the info can be applied to use the stock gauge with a different sending unit. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=127605 Yep thats the one I was referring to. So in order to use a stock gauge with a 0-90 you have to... get rid of resistance...? Is that even possible? Perhaps the 70-10 unit and pack on 20ohm to the 70. I do notice that they advertise 0-90 ohms and then they say 70-10 ohms. The 70-10 is reversed so empty is more resistance or something? I'll figure it out. EDIT: Dad and I reread over that thread and of course as an electrical engineer he's freaking out because things aren't adding up in the thread. We have to understand that on the FOT (friends of Triumph) forum, which Dad is a part of, those dudes are so anal and ridiculous they'll chew you out for misunderstandings like that. Especially since if you own a Triumph, you need to be an electrical engineer. All sorts of wiring ♥♥♥♥ from the factory. Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Alright so, I need help with mounting ideas. I don't have dimensions yet but I will measure when I get a chance. The thing is that I want to keep the spare tire. I had a change of heart, may be a good idea to keep it. Even if its flat, its on a slot mag wheel so its like flat old tire I never bought, run it until its gone IF you really had to. With that said, there aren't really any places to put one... maybe if I use the area between the filler cap and the spare tire but thats rather small! I'm thinking if you get a long, wide, but shallow tank, you can utilize the strap bolt holes and bolts. Make straps out of flat iron, and use the space under the spare tire well, without intruding on exhaust space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turborust Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Have you considered having a small portable air compressor and tire plug kit tucked away under the seat or in the storage boxes behind the seats? http://www.slime.com/product/68/12-Volt-Tire-Inflator-with-Gauge-&-Light-(COMP-03).html?utm_source=NexTag&utm_medium=CPC&utm_content=Comp%2B03&utm_campaign=NexTag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 look kinda cheesy but hey, it will be hiddenFuel cells and fuel tanks arent about looks, they are about safety. I have a hard time believing that the plastic cells are safe at all. I thoroughly dislike my cell, and I have serious slosh problem below 1/4 tank with the thing packed with foam. I would feel safer with the factory steel tank. They usually leak around the sump fittings unless you replace the washers every year or so. Good sending units are expensive (over 100 bucks) and they usually don't fit the cell perfect. If you want to use a arm/float style it will be terribly inaccurate due to slosh and then you cant use foam. They develop static and if not grounded for whatever reason could present serious issues. You can will smell like gas if you have to fill it from the hatch area. Bottom line IMO is if you want to go to a fuel cell spend the extra couple hundred (500) and get a real fuel cell that will be safe in an accident. Especially with the work required to properly mount a cell, you might as well put a good cell in it. As to that our tank are hanging out on the back of the car so a highquality cell and perhaps a little more rear end protection might be a good idea. In addition if you are going to a cell its a good time to move to an in tank pump, it will be reliable and quite, and you dont have to worry about extra fittings and mounting. When Sam Hornish Jr's car came back into the shop over the summer after being ripped in half at watkins glen, I got to see the quality of bladdered racing cell up close. Watch the tank fly across the track in the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV8nooXeR98 It looked like it got hit by a train and was tossed over a cliff and if was holding fine. The car still caught on fire though because all the lines were severed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Fuel cells and fuel tanks arent about looks, they are about safety. I have a hard time believing that the plastic cells are safe at all. I thoroughly dislike my cell, and I have serious slosh problem below 1/4 tank with the thing packed with foam. I would feel safer with the factory steel tank. They usually leak around the sump fittings unless you replace the washers every year or so. Good sending units are expensive (over 100 bucks) and they usually don't fit the cell perfect. If you want to use a arm/float style it will be terribly inaccurate due to slosh and then you cant use foam. They develop static and if not grounded for whatever reason could present serious issues. You can will smell like gas if you have to fill it from the hatch area. Bottom line IMO is if you want to go to a fuel cell spend the extra couple hundred (500) and get a real fuel cell that will be safe in an accident. Especially with the work required to properly mount a cell, you might as well put a good cell in it. As to that our tank are hanging out on the back of the car so a highquality cell and perhaps a little more rear end protection might be a good idea. In addition if you are going to a cell its a good time to move to an in tank pump, it will be reliable and quite, and you dont have to worry about extra fittings and mounting. When Sam Hornish Jr's car came back into the shop over the summer after being ripped in half at watkins glen, I got to see the quality of bladdered racing cell up close. Watch the tank fly across the track in the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV8nooXeR98 It looked like it got hit by a train and was tossed over a cliff and if was holding fine. The car still caught on fire though because all the lines were severed. I see... Well to just be clear I'm not too concerned about safety. Hit any car from behind at 60mph and it won't be pretty. With the dripping sump, I'll just use the steel encased one then. All that is, is a plastic cell in a metal box, and the pickups are up top. I'm finding 16 gallon cells with sending units in them already, I say 16 now because I always fill up with 12 or 13 gallons but the FSM says a stock tank is like 15 + the sump thats added on. I guess I will always have 2 gallons left when it reads empty. The slosh issue, are you running FI, a turbo? If so, then yah its a big deal. Plus you probably race the car. My car is only a street. I have yet to attend a drivers edge event or whatever. Now... if I can get another tank and weld on a sump over towards the passenger side, because mine sits right in the center, then I can use a stock tank, with sump, and dual pipes. Of course thats only IF the stock tank allows for two 2" pipes to go under it. I'm planning on using megaphone tips too... Like I said, I need to get a tape measure and see what I'm dealing with. I think with all that said, I'm not too worried about the convenience of the car... I see your spal window cranks and its VERY appealing but then I remember there is no A/C, no heater, can't hear radio, loud car, no interior. It just doesn't matter anymore to me. Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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