travlnman Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I think someone already said it, but here goes. On a stock engine , you may not see any benefits. Worse case, maybe a reduced life span (maybe) and that will be hard to prove without a side by side comparison. The more radical you get with the cam, compression, RPM etc, the more benefit you will see. Personally I'm stock, I just run the Rotella for the reasons I've stated above, ease of purchase, increased protection (assumed) , and it makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. There are pics of cams in this forum, as well as others (classic Z car club) that folks have installed that were non stock, and they did not last long. They have posted pics of flattened cam lobes after a short time running newer conventional oils. Maybe they did not install it correctly, maybe it was not broken in properly, maybe the oil was to blame, there is no smoking gun. After many hours of reading here and other Z forums, as well as BITOG, I have made the decision to use an oil with higher ZDDP , based on VOA, and UOA, to give me piece of mind, which is what I believe the original poster is looking for. I too would be interested in any hard data that is out there to prove one way or the other. However, unless someone has done a side by side comparison under strict laboratory controls, there will always be some variable that folks will say contributed to failure. All I can say is lurk around some other sites like me, compile any data you get, and make your own decision based on that. I can't have all the fun....you guys be safe out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travlnman Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62:article-of-the-month&catid=40:past-articles-of-the-month&Itemid=78 This article from BITOG has good basic information on contents of oils. It even speaks to the reduction of ZDDP, and it's replacements to control wear. Enjoy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryand2 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 Thanks travlnman, after doing much of the same reading, as you did, i decided to go woth the zddp, simpy because it wasn't just Z guys who were having problems, it was MG guys and muscle car guys as well, here is are a few of the links I found warning about the lack of zddp in newer oils, [ay attention to the last link I posted which is from engine professional magazine. http://www.ttalk.info/Zddp.htm http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/flat_tappet_cam_tech/oil_summary.html http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1383829&page=1 http://www.compcams.com/Base/pdf/FlatTappetCamTechBulletin.pdf http://www.aera.org/ep/downloads/ep1/EP012008_8-16.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travlnman Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Good read. Thanks for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rolling Parts Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 T... it was MG guys and muscle car guys as well, here is are a few of the links I found warning about the lack of zddp in newer oils... I read those links. The thing that is outstanding is that blaming oil for bad engine work (or a bad custom muscle engine build) just too easy to pass up. If it were true that it was the lack of zddp that cause their problems, don't ya think that it would be true all the time in similar engines and catastrophic in less than 1500 miles all the time in similar engines? When my reality conflict with internet reads, I choose reality. I buy the cheapest non-synthetic oils I can find for my L28's. I drive L28's every day and rack up thousands of miles a year without any issues. Heck, one of my L28's has 400,000 miles on the original cam/rockers and is still going strong on "store brand" 10W30. The question really is how may high power custom muscle engine builds and how many rebuilt old MG engines also have problems during the "break-in" period while running high "anti-wear" additives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I read those links. The thing that is outstanding is that blaming oil for bad engine work (or a bad custom muscle engine build) just too easy to pass up. If it were true that it was the lack of zddp that cause their problems, don't ya think that it would be true all the time in similar engines and catastrophic in less than 1500 miles all the time in similar engines? When my reality conflict with internet reads, I choose reality. I buy the cheapest non-synthetic oils I can find for my L28's. I drive L28's every day and rack up thousands of miles a year without any issues. Heck, one of my L28's has 400,000 miles on the original cam/rockers and is still going strong on "store brand" 10W30. The question really is how may high power custom muscle engine builds and how many rebuilt old MG engines also have problems during the "break-in" period while running high "anti-wear" additives? well, given the nature of my first comment in this thread, I suppose I will field this. I haven't made any posts because most of the details of the matter have dimmed in my memory, but as I recall the blame for the camshaft lobe destruction was about equal parts lack of zinc, and poor metallurgy in aftermarket camshaft blanks. The steel in many aftermarket camshafts (and, presumably any new rocker arm surfaces) now available for flat-tappet engines is not up to the task of long life under intense spring pressures without the zinc additive. A factory camshaft blank, factory rocker arms, and ZDDP additives are three steps you can take to avoid this catastrophic problem that anecdotal evidence suggests is possible. You are the one who has to read the information available, and analyze the anecdotal data available to you, and make the call on what goes in your crankcase. For the record, I haven't driven my Datsun in five years, (oh my god i cant believe its been that long) and when I did I never used anything but inexpensive brand name Dino oils. (Whatever decent brand was on sale.. Typically GTX or Pennzoil, but I'm not picky.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryand2 Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 All im saying is, it cant hurt and id rather not learn the hard way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryand2 Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 And to rolling parts comments, its not just about "custom muscle engine builds", and if he has 400,000 miles on original L28 cam and rockers, imagine how many miles might be achievable with the additive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rolling Parts Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 And to rolling parts comments, its not just about "custom muscle engine builds", and if he has 400,000 miles on original L28 cam and rockers, imagine how many miles might be achievable with the additive! Superstition. Most "magic-in-a-can" additives sell to such promises. And yes, IT CAN HURT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travlnman Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 If either of you fellas are planning on winning the debate, give up now. Just read the info, make up you mind, and choose accordingly. I have never seen anyone suddenly change their mind once it's made up. You'll just get frustrated and angry otherwise. Remember, share info, and make your decision. You want it, use it. If not don't . We should not make it personal. Remember, help each other, it's what we do . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rolling Parts Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 No one gets angry over oil additives, but the "well use it or not" is actually the best logic against an additive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travlnman Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 No argument from me. It's why I use an oil that already has it. No additive necessary. But I disagree over the angry part. Oil, in any part , even additives, is a very touchy subject. People have their fav's and they will not be swayed, and they must convince you to think the same. Some forums are full of it. Fortunately, this forum has been delightfully void of any such nonsense......so far. I hope and pray it stays that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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