EDIS Crank Fire System

[rayaapp2]

IGNITION SYSTEM

Crank Fire With Distributor

 

 

I made this post for my L24 build, but thought I would re-post it in its own thread.

 

It looks like a crank fire ignition system is about $350 on the low side.

Ive only had about a week of messing around on the computer with non-mega squirt style EDIS systems so I may be going about this all wrong. EDIS appears to be the most inexpensive route and the most common for the average joe such as myself to get control of his spark. Feel free to put me in my place as always guys.

 

If I go this route(which is my preference) I would like the run the L6 EDIS system. The problem is that I do not want use the coil pack. The other problem is that I will need a driver still to do timing curve and such.

 

The best solution so far looks to be a system called Megajolt Ver 4 made by Autosport Labs(or at least sold by). This unit costs $162 plus shipping. That actually seems reasonable when comparing to others like the MSD 6AL-2 at far over $200.

 

EDIS ideas part 1

 

EDIS ideas part 2

 

EDIS Mega Squirt

 

EDIS Mounting Solution #1

 

So provided that no one has a better solution for the price here is what I can come up with.

 

Using the Megajolt system and the Ford EDIS system my 240z would require the tach adapter mod addressed here as I have a current driven tach. There are other ways of doing this as well, but I like this one. The goal here would be to retain as stock a looking car as possible.

So the big problem of using a coil pack needs to be addressed. My first thoughts here are to gut the stock distributor and weld/braze the drive shaft and rotor shafts together. Basically it will look like the inside of an 81 turbo dizzy. So this only leaves rotor to cap air gap as an ignition issue, which for what Im doing should not be an issue... I just need a good coil(which I have not addressed yet).

The next issue with using just one coil is that the Motorcraft EDIS unit has 3 outputs for the coil pack. I'm almost positive these signals are NOT amplified. The Motorcraft coils must have an internal amplifier. So the key is to rectify the 3 signals into 1 and amplify the signal. This will most likely be the hardest part, but I don't see another way to retain the stock looking distributor. I can hear everyone already: telling me to just use the coil pack. The extra work isn't worth it A rectifier bridge ran to an amplifier piggy backed onto the EDIS unit should pull this off. I just don't have specs yet to build this circuit and I don't know if I could design this one correctly. I think I could build a basic rectifier that would handle the situation, but ignition amplifiers/ignitors require a lot more thought and experience than I have. I have that MSD 6A that I could use as the ignitor/multispark, but I have no idea if thats a good idea or not. This only works though if the EDIS fires each signal wire with DCv though which I have not verified. This of course would delete the waste spark function.

 

Then there is the fact that my car is running a dealership installed AC system and Air Injection still. I dont plan on taking these items off the car. The old York compressor and a few other things will be getting replaced with a rotatory style R134a retrofit during this build as well. So the Air Pump and a AC compressor is installed on the driver side of the block(no im not running the one that goes over the fuel pump). This means my front balancer has an extra pulley on the front and and a fan clutch extender. All this adds up to a special crank trigger install. I don want to delete my timing plate to do this. Derek's balancer and sensor mounts wont work from what I have gathered. I think the reluctor wheel will need to be mounted on the backside of the balancer pulley or a complete redesign of my belt system is a must. Maybe one of those 3 or 4 groove belts would be optimal, but Im not spending a ton of money to convert over to that. I think that is going way to far down the rabbit hole for now.

 

 

My probably overly-complicated and yet still incomplete ignition circuit.

 

Edited December 26, 2010 by rayaapp2

[rayaapp2]

I have been digging around to figure this out.

 

I came across this post.

LS1 EDIS

 

It appears the EDIS module has the built in ignitor unit and NOT the coil packs. So Im back to square one with figuring out how to run the EDIS as a crank fire only. Any ideas?

 

 

...

 

The EDIS “module†IS the igniter for the EDIS Ignition system so by default, the coil packs for EDIS-x do not have igniters built in. The Ford coil packs and the Chrysler coil packs we use with EDIS are essentially, in function, standard individual coils packaged in a single housing and each coil has two output terminals instead of just one like a standard DIZZY coil.

 

The “EDIS moduleâ€, (the Igniter for the coils used with the Ford EDIS-x ignition systems), is the doohickey in the bottom left corner of this picture.

 

Hope that helps,

 

 

Edited December 29, 2010 by rayaapp2

[rayaapp2]

There has to be an electrical engineer here that can help me out with Diode properties?

 

I am going COP with my L24 at this point for sure. Im going to run them as waste spark and pair them. I went with Bryan Blakes Ford COP mounting bracket.

 

I still want to know how to set this system up for a 2000 roadster that Id like to convert to electronic ignition. EDIS-4 and Megajolt should do it. A bench test will be needed to determine the output for the coil so I can choose a proper single coil. As stated above I need to source 3 diodes that will preform in this environment still.

 

BRAAP pointed out in a PM that using a system with a electronic spark and a distributor is limited by rotor head width and diameter. The width is wide enough to spark 2 cylinders at once with the small diameter caps.

 

My U20 has an even smaller cap, but its a 4 cylinder and has more gap than the L24 dizzy. It might work out.

[Oddmanout84]

I really hope some more input comes to this thread (for purely selfish reasons ).

 

I'm in the process of constructing an EDIS setup for my Haltech E6K system, and am hitting some speed bumps when it comes to wiring up the sensor and WHERE to send the signal to. From what I've found through google search and some haltech forums, you either need the Motorcraft module, or you don't. I'm a bit confused as to how you would wire the coils to the system without it. I'm using individual coil-on-plugs. According to the Haltech manual, you'd wire the CAS sensor directly to the ECU to get the signal, then wire the coils in pairs (1-6,2-5,3-4) from the ECU to get the signal to them... but the Haltech E6K "apparently" doesn't have an igniter built in. Can't see how one would wire in the Haltech ignition module or A Crane/MSD6 system... This is a conundrum.

 

Edit: CRAP! Just found out Haltech sells a triple channel ignition module! Maybe this will work... maybe for your application too?

Edited March 2, 2011 by Oddmanout84

[bradyzq]

Rayaapp,

 

Not sure what you're asking about anymore...

 

Do you still want options for a crank trigger distributor setup?

 

If so, might I suggest a Megasquirt configured for a 36-1 trigger wheel (like EDIS) and running a distributor. They can do this. Use a normal coil. No EDIS module needed. The Megasquirt can be equipped with its own internal ignitor. All you'd have to do is lock the distributor advance and do what you describe above.

 

You can always file down (narrow) the rotor tip. You only need about 15-20 degrees of arc at the rotor tip. That will give you a 30-40 degree range of available ignition timing. 5 to 45 degrees timing should do it, right? You really shouldn't have to worry about arcing to the wrong distributor cap post, either.

 

For example, on a rotor that is 1" from center to tip (which is pretty much exactly the case for a 240Z rotor), the width of the rotor tip could be a little less than 3/8".

 

Oh, yeah. If you want, you can just ignore the fuel side of the Megasquirt and use it for ignition only...

Edited March 15, 2011 by bradyzq