strotter

Instead of a box section arm, perhaps consider a tube coaxial to the driveshaft. I'm thinking something just large enough to enclose the u-joints, with fittments at either end to fasten to the tranny & diff. Sectioned longitudinally for installation, fairly thin-walled, possibly aluminum. At the front you'd need to fasten to the extension housing bolts with a fairly heavy-gauge assembly, at the rear - ummm, how about welding something to the diff box? Dunno, it's still early.

Congratulations on firing it! Quite a buzz, huh? I just got mine running a couple of weeks ago, had the same experience. All those things that *might* go wrong, you're standing there staring intensely at the thing, every nerve on edge, ears straining to hear a rattle or a whine or a squeak, it's growling away, all those hours and hours and hours of work finally coming together - man, that's a moment. Walk proud man!

Well, I'll chime in about the fuel lines. I ran a 3/8" via more-or-less the original route, which ends up on top of the SBC bellhousing. From there I went directly up (hard line) then to the passenger side (flex line) to a pressure regulator mounted on the firewall adjacent to the bulkhead opening for the wiper motor. Return line plumbed to the original 5/16. Pressure line (flex and hard line) to the carb under the distributor. Sorry, no charcoal canister installed, but while I was living under my car, I thought it might be easy to mount it aft, in front of the fuel tank, adjacent to the pump and filter. Seems like there might be room, and it would be more protected than in the wheelwell.

OK, I've got my motor running, but the coil I swapped over, though functional, is on its last legs. I figure I'll upgrade while the money is flowing like wine. So, my question: what's a quality high-performance ignition system for a '89 Firebird? (The donor for the ignition system and fuel injection). I've got some fancy heads and some fairly high compression (188 psi all around, +/- 3, the motor's run about 20 minutes total!) so I need a big fat spark. Any suggestions?

OK, I feel like a tard asking this simple a question ( I am, after all, Mechanically Inclined Man at home), but how do you get the little chrome strip off the rain gutter of a '72 without twisting it into a pretzel? I have never in my life successfully gotten one of these things off and then on again. I need simple, clear, step-by-step directions. Little words would be good, too. Thanks in advance.

...and only on the one-hundred-thirty-fourth try! I've spent the last couple of weeks squeezing a 327/T5 into my '72. Work proceeded slowly but consistently. Eleven trips a day for that *particular* grade-8 bolt, tracking down the correct coolant hoses (four trips to the local NAPA store), getting the throttle cable to fit, studying the vacuum diagram in the Pontiac manual *real* close, on and on. Friday, I started with the wiring - TBI fuel injection system with all the associated goodies from a Firebird...bundle of wires as thick as your forearm through the firewall...relays and control boxes under the passenger seat...battery in the back, run heavy wires forward...connect the wires to the appropriate sensors...integrate the electronics into the Datsun electrics...add a secondary fuse box...thousands of wires, wires everywhere, the smell of flux fills the air... Yesterday afternoon I try starting it, brutal backfires from exhaust and intake. Hmmm, perhaps the lifters pump up, too much preload? No... could the cam be out of alignment? No...check one thing, check another, darkness and fatigue put a halt to my efforts. This morning, thought I'd start by checking things I *knew* were right. First thing, distributor. Spun the crank up to TDC, popped off the cap, uhhhhh..... it's pointing the wrong way. As a matter of fact, it's pointing *exactly* the wrong way. Rotate it 180, bolt it down, put the valve covers back on, turn the key... Rump! Starts up in half a spin, idles up for a second and then settles down to 450, 500 rpm smooth as a babies' butt. Of course, there's no exhaust system on it, it's 8:00 in the morning, the sand sitting under it from the blasting I did is flying all over the place, birds are *exploding* from every tree within five blocks... But I, I am happy.

Demidion, do you off the top of your head remember your spring rates? I've got kind of the opposite problem than most, the car I bought for my V8 project has some *very* stiff progressive springs on it, I want to ease off for comfortable street driving (and I don't want the whole car to *bang* every time hit an expansion joint).

I'm about at the point where I'm going to fire my injected 327, but I need to know the best way to get the timing in the ball park before I go. It has the entire electronic ignition system off a '89 Firebird TBI. With points it's easy, but I havn't come across any references (including the factory manual) for initial setup on electronic ignition. Am I just going to have to have my girl crank the motor while I'm under the hood with the timing light going?

I'm in the middle of an EFI swap, as well. I, too, believe electricity is evil (as is anything that is invisible but can still bite you). It was very intimidating at first, with miles of wires and relays and sensors and whatnot. However, half the point of doing these swaps is learning a thing or two, and believe me, I've done that. I have no fear of fuel injection anymore, and have actually developed an admiration for how the systems are set up, how much control the computer has over the motor, and the significant improvement in driveability and a bit of mileage. Actually it's been fun, something I hadn't expected. You might want to talk to the Painless wiring people about purchasing an entire engine compartment wiring harness in one bang. They include only what's needed to run the engine, and delete what is not. Makes for a much simpler job. And do, do, do get the manual for the car the motor came form (from Helm Publications) and study it. I put mine in the bathroom next to the pot, so it got significant attention every day. Sometimes twice!

OK, I just today got my 327/T5 into my '72. I have a couple of quick questions for those who have been there/done that. 1. For anybody who has installed fuel injection, preferably a factory type unit, where did you install the ECM and its associated components? (VSS buffer, VATS unit, starter enable relay, so on). I hope to install an A/C unit at a later date, so the area immediately starboard of the heater is out. I was sort of thinking about creating a false floor on the passenger side and tucking the bits under that. I'd *hate* to lose the glove compartment. 2. On an associated note, if you have installed the F.I., did you have to drill out another hole in the firewall? I don't believe it's possible to fit that big old wad of wiring through that one teeny little hole, but if y'all think it's possible, I'll give it a try... 3. For anybody, what size is that gigantic nut on the differential input shaft? 4. The differential flange supplied by JTR is the closed type, that fits over the bearings. My donor car (an '89 Firebird) used the open type, with the straps that capture the bearings with pairs of bolts. Is it possible to adapt that type of shaft (after it's cut down, of course) to the closed type of flange, or will I need to have an entirely new shaft made up? If not, I'm thinking about having an aluminum unit made up (per a couple of earlier threads about driveline vibration). 5. Has anybody ever heard of a heat stove for headers? I like the idea of maintaining the factory functionality, and I'm also thinking it might act as a heat shield for nearby components. 6. Finally (at last!) how far aft of the forward bulkhead would be a good distance to mount the JTR radiator bracket? It looks like about 1.5" in the JTR book, but I recall seeing some variations at the Rio Vista meeting. I wouldn't even ask, but aerodynamics is not my strong suit and I don't want to fiddle with it later if I can avoid it. BTW, I'm using one of the "new" radiators JTR recommends, which I believe comes out of some van or other. I'd also appreciate any tips, tricks, or gotchas anybody would like to give me at this point in the swap. TIA, Scott T

OK, I've got two: 1. When I was a kid, I lived out in the boonies of central California. If you havn't been there, be assured that there are for sure boonies in Cali, and most of 'em are right in the middle, where it's farm country, and I lived in the middle of *that*, 10 miles from the nearest town. The story: I remember laying in my bed, summertime, too hot to sleep, late late at night, quiet like a city person never knows. Kind of lonely when you're 10. Then somewhere off in the distance there'd be this noise: we're talkin' miles here, not blocks. It would rise and fall, rise and fall, a howling or growling or scream, you couldn't place it at first. Maybe an airplane, maybe an animal. I'd listen hard 'cause I knew what it was: this beautiful blue car. A convertible, which we local kids eventually identified as a Ferarri Daytona. With straight pipes. There was this rancher, see, who had a taste for the finer things, including cars and liquor: for cars, it was the Daytona; for liquor, it was after the sun went down. He'd drive into town, all conservative and legal-like, and get a snoot full. Then he'd make the run back to the homestead wide-open redline all the way. There were two corners he'd have to slow down for, then he'd get on it back up to cruising speed, which was in fifth (I know, 'cause I counted every time he went past). Did it for years. I'll never forget that incredible, wild sound in the middle of a hot night in the country, laying on my bed and just - dreaming. Memory not going away soon. 2: Later, in my teens, I worked as a valet in a parking garage. This drop-dead-gorgeous legal secretary would come in at 9:00 am every day with her metal-flake gold, big-block, TH-400'd T-topped '71 Corvette. One of those that *thumped" and squatted the rearend a bit when you dropped it in gear, idling at, what, 500 rpm. Dub Dub Dub - pause - Dub Dub Dub - pause - Dub Dub Dub. We'd park the cars when the customer dropped them off, and deliver the cars when the customer returned. Darn the luck, she always loitered for a few minutes to check her hair when she dropped her car off, so we had to be nice and just *park* the thing, never a moment of fun. But when 5:05 rolled around, the show would begin: she'd come in, all tired and cranky from her secretary day, tight dress and stiletto high heels looking just right and a bit sweaty, drop into the car and, without a word of thanks or good day, head out the door to the freeway onramp. There was a light there, so she had to wait for it, and so did we, and when the green popped she'd just ever so gradually push her foot to the floor and go. She wouldn't actually break traction, she'd just hook up and be gone, with that big-block just growling howling like some giant, angry tiger. You could hear the intake rush at 100 yards, over the exhaust, and the tires chirp chirp chirp going over the crosswalk lines. She'd catch significant scratch going into second, but by then she was cresting the ramp so the sound was muted; but you could hear her for quite some time as she picked it up to freeway speed and beyond. Everybody would watch, both us and the customers, and when she was gone we'd all turn around and get back to our jobs and lives. But that sound reverberated in us, the unbelievable power of the car, the beauty of the woman, the smell of the gas and oil, the echoes off the concrete walls, all of it together. Never forget that one, either.

Dan, yeah I was there. My girl and I had a great time, took lots of pictures. Kind of a mixed bag for the morale, though: V8Z's are very cool, but man, there are some *really* nice cars out there. To see them in person gets you all excited to get to work, and at the same time kind of intimidates you. At the time of the meet, I was just starting to prep my engine compartment. I was going to clean it up, take out the unnecessary stuff, call it a wrap. Now, I'm painting it to match the body color, carefully cleaning the brake lines and other hoses, removing things to avoid any chance of overspray, I'm going to have to disassemble the clutch and brake cylinders so I can repaint & clean as necessary, I'll need some better-looking valve covers, and some kind of trick intake system, and maybe braided lines, and the bracket for the electronics needs to look factory, and so on and so on and so on... I mean, it'll look much better when I'm done, but "done" is starting to look like September or October, not May or June any more... Sigh. It's all good, though; next year, if they decide to do another get-together, I'll darned sure be there with something I can be really proud of. Or, maybe the year after.

I'm in the middle of doing this same swap. '89 Firebird 305 TBI on an early 327. I'm starting conservatively, to get the thing running, and will add the goofy stuff later. Use the knock sensor off a 350, which pretty much means you'll need to go roller lifters (which I had planned to do before I read about conventional lifters and knock sensors). I got a "K-kit" from Comp Cams, which includes virtually the entire valvetrain and is designed for older motors. You'll need to be careful to get ponies out of it, as the MAP systems (which includes your TBI) don't respond well to cams with overlap less than 112 degrees. Botches the manifold pressure at idle, therefore confuses the computer, which tries to compensate but can't, all kinds of ugliness. The biggest problem for me BY FAR has been the wiring. I'm modifying the factory harness, but I would suggest you *seriously* consider a Painless wiring harness. Wiring has been a major problem for me, but I sort of like the self-abuse, so it's just me. Painless wiring sets are supposed to be color-accurate, simple, and fairly affordable. You'll be able to use the stock injectors (assuming they're in good shape) at least initially, if you adjust the fuel pressure (which is possible using the factory components). Check http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb/ and use their search function. Also check out the "Ultimate TBI Mods" in their tech article section. VERY useful stuff, including how to modify the factory fuel pressure regulator so that it's adjustable (a few psi). Also, get the JTR "TPI and TBI Engine Swapping" book, which is going to tell you not to retrofit F.I. onto an older engine. They're right, but I'm doing it anyway. Something else that you're going to have to take on is the computer. It's not really optional to "chip" even an original motor to get any horsepower out of it, and is pretty much mandatory for a swap of this kind. Remember, a maladjusted carburator will make your engine run rough, a maladjusted fuel injection system will melt your motor to slag. You'll need to find someplace to burn you a custom chip, and hope they get it right, or you'll have to bite the bullet and get a n EEPROM programmer and some software to do it yourself. My take on it is that it can be done straightforwardly, but takes time and trial and error, yet gives a superior result to outsourced custom chips. The whole shebang costs about $200 or so, you provide the computer (ideally a laptop so you can drive around with it hooked under your dash and just *amaze* all your friends. If you have any more questions (and I just bet you will) I'll do my best to answer. Hopefully I'll have the thing fired in the next couple of weeks, so we'll know what does and doesn't work. Good luck.

Desktop Dyno tells me I'll be in the just-less-than 300 hp range with an LT-1 cam / block huggers / dual 2.5" exhaust, etc. A mild build, I know, but I'm prone to fiddle with things, and if at some later date I want to replace the LT-1 with this Comp Cams XR270HR I have laying around, in conjunction with some other external mods, DD2k has me in the 400+ hp range. The *last* thing I want to face is dropping the tank again, it's a job I just *hate* to do. So, if I'm back there anyway to add the return line and reservoir (I guess what you referred to as the surge tank) I may as well overkill now and not worry later. An idea I thought I'd rip off came from the JTR EFI Swap book. It's basically a little open-topped box with walls 1" or so high. One side is open (toward the nearest side of the tank) to allow fuel to enter. When the fuel sloshes away (to the far side of the tank) the little reservoir holds just a couple of ounces, enough to feed the engine until the end of the turn. I was thinking I could pull off the sending unit, drill a single hole, solder the 1/2" aluminum line to it, and then solder the mini-reservoir to the end of the aluminum tubing. It would, of course, need to be sized so as to fit through the existing opening for the pickup, as well as to make firm, flat contact with the bottom of the tank. For the return, I was thinking I could use the existing 5/16" pickup fitting. Comments?

Desktop Dyno tells me I'll be in the just-less-than 300 hp range with an LT-1 cam / block huggers / dual 2.5" exhaust, etc. A mild build, I know, but I'm prone to fiddle with things, and if at some later date I want to replace the LT-1 with this Comp Cams XR270HR I have laying around, in conjunction with some other external mods, DD2k has me in the 400+ hp range. The *last* thing I want to face is dropping the tank again, it's a job I just *hate* to do. So, if I'm back there anyway to add the return line and reservoir (I guess what you referred to as the surge tank) I may as well overkill now and not worry later. An idea I thought I'd rip off came from the JTR EFI Swap book. It's basically a little open-topped box with walls 1" or so high. One side is open (toward the nearest side of the tank) to allow fuel to enter. When the fuel sloshes away (to the far side of the tank) the little reservoir holds just a couple of ounces, enough to feed the engine until the end of the turn. I was thinking I could pull off the sending unit, drill a single hole, solder the 1/2" aluminum line to it, and then solder the mini-reservoir to the end of the aluminum tubing. It would, of course, need to be sized so as to fit through the existing opening for the pickup, as well as to make firm, flat contact with the bottom of the tank. For the return, I was thinking I could use the existing 5/16" pickup fitting. Comments?

I've done a couple of searches on-site here, but I haven't found anything that directly answers the question: what's considered the "correct" way of attaching oversized fuel lines to the tank? I've got a '72 and am pulling the tank to attach 1/2" feed and 3/8" return (for an injected 327), but don't want to weld if I can avoid it. On a related note, are the injected engines here running the remote reservoir per JTR fuel-injection book? If so, did you fab them yourself, or adapt some existing component? I have an old oxygen cylinder (about 1 liter capacity) which might work for me, if it turns out to be necessary/wise/useful. Comments? Suggestions?

Thurem, your idea of calibrating the gauge plate to the car speed was my first idea. The downside though would be that I'd have to disassemble the thing *twice* (once to install the new guts, a second time to install the calibrated face), and I'm a little nervous about that. And the PITA factor is high whenever dealing with gauges. I'm just one of those guys that prefers to do it once and then forget about it. And besides, if I use the potentiometer method, it can be adjusted on the fly for whatever tire/wheel combo I end up with. Besides, I found some really nice gauge face patterns at Steve Graber's website which are fine looking, readable, and free. They're designed to use the original Datsun faceplates, which appeals to the lazy guy in me. I'm thinking I'll print them out on white plastic (like an opaque version of an overhead transparency, $5.00 at Wal-Mart). Check out the rest of his Velo Rossa website. Awesome. Bbbowtie, I have no idea what you're talking about. Would an "audio" taper be logarithmic? If so, I would think a linear taper would be best. Actually, the thing I'm a most concerned about is having fine enough resolution in the potentiometer. It will need to be adjusted to within a mph or two, which is, what, less than one percent? And it would be nice to have big old knob to twist, rather than some tiny little screwdriver slot. Come to think of it, though, and audio pot might work well, if the "flat part" of the curve is at the "bottom" of the adjustment range. I'm not looking to apply a lot of resistance, and that might make it be easier to find the right point. No matter, if I run the wires under the dash I can try different parts until I get it right.

Something I havn't seen mentioned here yet, but should be, is that if you're going to paint with one of the modern "catalyzed" paint - the ones you add a hardener to to start the chemical reaction that will cause the paint to "kick", like an epoxy glue, such as PPG and many others - is that you ABSOLUTELY COMPLETELY TOTALLY HAVE TO HAVE A FORCED-AIR RESPIRATOR! This is *NOT* optional. The kind of respirator you hook up to an air pump or a compressor. A face mask with a couple of filters on it isn't good enough. One of the active ingredients in many of these paint is cyanoacrylate, one of the chemicals in Crazy Glue. It's a little teeny molecule, and can pass right through a filter, carbon-activated or not. One whiff, and I mean ONE, can cause problems from your brain to your liver to your boy-parts(!!!!). Permanent problems. Debilitating problems. Let me tell you a little story... Two years ago I decided to paint a Subaru as a learning project. Got the PPG paint, did all the prep work, so on so on. Shot the car in a garage with the door open, small window fans pushing air in through some linen filters. Not a great deal of air movement that morning, but the fans cleared everything out just fine. Used a brand new, expensive carbon-activated /small particulate face-mask type respirator. Shot it early in the morning, everything came out happy-dappy. Two weeks later I go to the doctor, just the normal annual checkup, we're talking about one thing and another, and I told her about my car-painting project. She stopped what she was doing and said "You used a forced-air respirator, right?" I said no, just a good filter type. She thought about it for a second, and said "Tell me, did you *smell* anything while you were painting?" I said, "Well, yeah, you can smell that stuff right through the mask", to which she replied "If you can smell it, you breathed it. I'm taking some more blood, we'll see if you dosed yourself". She was real frowny at this point, and clearly thought I was and idiot. Well, a week later the bloodwork comes back, and sure enough I had a variety of stuff in me doesn't belong in a landfill. Not enough to hurt me, but enough that it didn't take any special tests to find it, just the plain old blood screening. And the line between "not enough to hurt you" and "Mr. Smith, your liver isn't working" is apparently very thin, indeed. So the moral of my story is: read, and then ACTUALLY FOLLOW the instructions that come with the paint, INCLUDING the expensive instructions, like "use a forced air respirator", because the people that make the paint ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.

I get it now! Thanks a bunch. I'll pick up a precision 10k pot at Rad Shack and wire it up. I won't know if it works until the thing is rolling, but if I make it accessible under the dash I can adjust or replace it easily if there's a problem. Again, thanks a bunch.

Guys, thanks for the replies. Greimann, I appreciate the link, but man, that thing cost money! Cheaper is better, assuming it works, so I'll go with the Radio Shack solution if I can. (BTW, the Z in your sig is *gorgeous*. The engine bay picture just makes me want to weep - really sanitary, very professional. I'm going with the factory TBI setup on a 327 w/ Vortecs, 10.0:1, T5WC. The 4Di is a ways down the road, I was thinking about the holley 670 TBI after I get this thing moving. Digital Dyno tells me I could be in the 400 hp range with the 670, hoping I can maintain fair mileage while I'm at it. It's my first EFI project. Any words of wisdom?) SleeperZ, you'll have to lead me through here by the hand, I'm more digital than analog in my dealings with electricity. I was thinking of a two-pole variable resistor, cut the red wire leading from the D/A converter to the armature, splice it in. You're suggesting I, what, put the resistor *between* the wires? I'm not really clear. I understand that electrically it's different, but I'm not sure what the advantage is. Also, what do you man by "wiper"? Clarify?

Just to clarify, there is only the VSS signal generator in the '89's - no mechanical drive of any kind. JTR has what *looks* like a combination VSS/mechanical drive, as was used on police cars to drive the speedo and radar-gun computer, but they tell me it won't fit. Yes, I was going to cut into the analog portion of the speedo. They're set up so a digital signal is sent from the ECM to the instrument cluster, where there's a digital-to-analog converter which in turn outputs just two wires (hot and ground) to the actual armature of the speedo. So, more current equals more "throw". Those are the wires I'm talking about.

I'm swapping the EFI and tranny from an '89 Firebird into my '72 Z. The donor car used an electric speedometer, which I'm going to use in place of the original unit (with a whole bunch of super clever surgery and a laserprinter for the faceplate - I called JTR but there's apparently no straightforward way to adapt the mechanical speedo on my T5). Because the Z will use "shorter" tires, I'll need to recalibrate the thing, but after taking it apart I'll be darned if I can figure out how. There seems to be no trimming pots anywhere in the instrument itself, or the VSS buffer. So here's the idea: because the tires will be shorter, and therefore turning faster at a given speed, I just need to lower the readout of the speedo throughout its range. I believe I can put a variable resistor in the hot lead running to the instrument head (after the digital/analog converter) to lower the voltage a bit and cause the needle to read a bit lower. Is this a workable idea? I'm thinking I can run the pot someplace under the dash, and adjust it by, like, following school busses, or comparing the numbers on the tickets to the speedo readings, or something. Suggestions/comments please.

Last weekend I overtorqued the #1 rod bolts on my 327, and thought "just to be safe" I'd replace them both. Pulled them both out, took one down to my excellent local machine shop and asked one of the guys to get a pair for me. Dum dee dee, dropped by today to pick them up, they had them, I got them, all was good in the world. I was getting ready to leave when one of the machinists said to me "You didn't take those both out of the same rod, did you?" "Yeah, I did," I told him. "Oh man," he said, "you probably need a new rod. Taking out both of them at once changes the geometry of the rod - the cap will never fit on there right again. I don't even know why, but it happens." I was flabbergasted. I'd never heard of such a thing. He suggested I assemble and torque it, and then check it for circularity with Plastigage, and also to look at the rod/cap junction for flat contact - I might just get lucky. I won't have time to do it until Sunday, but let me ask now: Has anybody ever heard of this? I've been playing with motors for years, and I've never even come across a suggestion of such a thing! I'm not saying he's wrong, as a matter of fact I'm sure I'll find just what he's saying is true and I'll be buying a new rod soon, but I was just thrown for a loop by something totally unforseen. Any comments? Am I more of an amateur than I thought I was, or what?

TimZ, where can I find these one-piece gaskets? Chevy dealer, or can I just hop down to the local Kragen? Who makes 'em?

I've assembled a few motors over the years, but with V8's I've always had a problem with oil weeping/leaking and ultimately making a big old mess. Do any of the old hands around here have any suggestions for sealing, especially the pan and valve cover gaskets? I'm hoping to be able to actually proudly open the hood once in a while, when this thing is finally rolling.