strotter

A request to those responding from experience: what actual mileage are you experiencing? I'm hoping to use my hybrid as a touring car, and am highly interested in mileage at cruising speeds... Mike's number seems a bit low, given that F-bodies can consistently get upper 20's lower 30's...

Both the above posts are correct. Another option is to find a late model donor car and strip the f.i. system off. The cheapest approach, money-wise, but probably the most expensive time-wise. Advantages: parts availability, lots of good documentation, lots of online and hardcopy help available. Disadvantages: a fairly steep learning curve, some parts are motor-specific (knock sensors, ESC's), wiring can be a problem (i.e., you don't have a tranny w/ a speed sensor you got to improvise, solid lifters confuse the knock sensor, so on), there are some subtleties that might get'cha (such as the GM MAP sensor needs to be oriented a certain way to read correctly), so on. JTR has a book about swapping in GM-type f.i. systems, and they offer a few parts to make it easier.

I kept mine as simple as I could. Cut off the arm 3/4" above the center of the opening in the firewall, marked the point where the cable should be (center of the hole in the firewall) then drilled all the way through with a bit just larger than the cable. Then from the back used a 3/16" drill to make a recess for the ball, about 1/2 the way through the shaft. Cut a slot down to it with a jig saw, smoothed everything out with a file and a wire wheel. At the top, I put a hose clamp to keep everything in place. Make sure the angle on the cable is as "straight" as possible, to avoid fatiguing it.

So does anybody know - who won?

Title says it all. Searched around in the archives for "fuel pump noise/noisy/loud/irritating/droning of bees/make it stop make it stop" but didn't find a definitive answer. I'm running a GM TBI FI on a mild 327, so I only need 10/15 psi or so. The MSD pump I have is driving me nuts. I've tried rubber-isolating it (with grommets and sheet rubber) under the package tray, but the thing is - strident. Any suggestions?

Where did y'all find the bolts to fasten the JTR universal joint to the Datsun diff? I have a some from the hardware store that are good enough for moving my Z around the yard, but it needs some good grade 8+ for the permanent setup. I can't find any anywhere. Perhaps on the 'net somewhere?

Actually i just *today* managed to mangle the brand-new, expensive and rather delicate window trim on the rear hatch of my '72 while attempting to replace the trim. It's a major, major, major PITA to replace, and I don't know how it can be done, by anyone, anytime, ever. Period. It just can't be done. OK, I'm feeling better now. Whew. In the book "How to Restore your Datsun Z-Car" by Wick Humble, he says that you can leave out the trim if you wish, and even trim off the lips that hold it in place. I think that's the route I'll be taking.

The only hammering I had to do with my WCT5 into my '72 was for clutch lever clearance. And at that, it was only a couple of smacks immediately behind the lever. If I had used some kind of cushion it would barely have left a mark, the steel is rather thin in that area.

Dan, though I'm an old fart too, I'm around the youngn's enough to dig their lingo. Let me help translate: "i need to pimp it out tho ya know." = "I would like to express my individuality with tasteful custom options". "Word" = "Yes sir, you're right!" "true dat." = "Yes, sir, you're right!" "Preach on." = Lone is lonely in Arizona. "thats the rilla." = "That's the idea!" -or- "Yes, sir, you are right!" "dope." = "Gosh, that would be nice!" "fo shizzy my nizzy." = "I got no idea what's going on in my life, but I look *fabulous* in these pants, don't I?" "are we going to have stickers, clear tail lights, and a big bookshelf wing next?" = "Waddup da bit shiz?" I hope this helped you to understand and "relate to" our youngsters expressing themselves in their "modern way". Have a groovy day!

I Swapped an '89 TBI system onto a '66 327. Mechanically, it was pretty straightforward. I had to tap into a boss on the block for the knock sensor (as outlined in JTR's TBI swapping book - buy it), and I had to get a different (153-tooth?) flywheel to adapt to the T-5. Also, I got a TBI manifold adapter so that I could use a non-TBI manifold. The problem wasn't so much mechanical, as electrical: you'll need the computer, a number of relays and other boxes (including stuff you wouldn't expect, such as the anti-theft control box). The big deal was the wiring itself. I would strongly suggest you contact Painless and get a harness for your application. If you have more detailed questions, email me at strotter@lodinet.com.

OK, assume I'm 'tarded. I'm ready to buy wheels, '72 with stock suspension parts. Eagle makes a wheel I like, the #28 ( http://www.americaneaglewheel.com/wheels_detail.cfm?id=19 ) but I just want to make sure the darned things fit before I get into the giant "sending them back hassle". They are available in a couple of sizes for 4x4.5, 15" diameter, including 7" with 0 mm offset and 4" backspacing. JTR sez that, for 15"x7", you should have about -13mm (-1/2") offset with 4.5" backspacing. The little sketch I made suggests that the wheels will "stick out" 1/2" farther than JTR's suggestion. Is that correct, and if so, will this fit? I'd like to avoid rolling the fender lips if possible....

I agree about the "bully beating you up" thing. I think a good thing about this is that we're not beating up the average Joe over there, but some of the bullies who really started this whole thing - the royal families and their associated financial institutions who have managed to very effectively suck the life out of their nations. There was an interesting factoid in one of the weekly news magazines a couple of months ago, I think Newsweek or U.S. News. They said that if you took the Gross Domestic Product of any number of the oil producing nations and distributed it in the same way that you see in western countries, you'd have quality of life approaching that of the U.S. or Japan. The actual case of course is that the *vast* majority of the population lives in what we would consider poverty, and the royal families are among the wealthiest people on Earth. How convenient for them that the average guy over there has come to believe that it's America's fault. How convenient too that *stuff* just keeps happening over there, so nobody really has the time to note that the middle east is the last cluster of dictatorships anywhere in the world. Heck, even the Russians *pretended* to have elections, these guys don't even do that... What really pisses me off is that, with all that money from all that oil, so easily available, those nations had the chance to make themselves into utopias, and they blew it. They had the chance and they blew it. I, too, am sorry for the rant.

Yeah, me too. strotter@lodinet.com

I think the point of the exercise is to hit these guys where it really hurts - their pocketbooks. They aren't aiming at Bin Lauden (sp?), they're aiming at the billionaire SOB's that finance him. Some of these guys have some serious money - and it isn't in the Bank Arabia, or wherever, it's in the Bank of Zurich, Banke Deutche, and good old Citibank. It's the same thing that they did with the flight 103 thing a few years ago, which worked out pretty well. AP said "The 15-count lawsuit, modeled after action filed against Libya in the Pan Am flight 103 disaster, seeks to cripple banks, charities and some members of the Saudi royal family as a deterrent to terrorist financing schemes." They're going to try to do what we (the Western World) don't seem to want to do, that is destroy the people who *finance* this behavior. I mean, it seems kind of pointless in terms of getting money for the families, but I just consider it another b**ch-slap for a bunch of people who need a whole bunch of *serious* smackin' around.

A little bit of a stretch here, but there is supposed to be a nylon bushing between the pushrod and the clutch arm, attached with a "zip-tie" sort of arrangement. On my application it had fallen out and was squished beyond recognition. If I hadn't seen it illustrated on the dealer's parts computer I wouldn't know it was supposed to be there. It appeared to (at one time) be fairly thick - perhaps as much as 3/16" or so? It's mentioned in the shop manual just as "bushing", though it doesn't show up in any of the illustrations. I have seen several cars where it has simply fallen off, and you wouldn't guess by looking that it was ever supposed to be there. Also, the shop manual sez "With the clutch pedal pushed fully to the floor, the actuator pushrod should extend a minimum of 14.5mm (0.57 inch) for the V-8," which suggests to me that you're getting reasonable travel out of your system (assuming it's free of air).

Gentlemen - it doesn't matter how long your driveshaft is... it's what you *do* with it. Any differential will tell you, if she's being honest.

Things I did wrong: 1) Leaving the distributor on during the motor install - banged the firewall good, popped the plate off. 2) Putting the replacement distributor on after the front bolts were on loosely, then wiggling the transmission around enough to bang the firewall again, another replacement. sigh. 3) Deciding to do everything at once. Bad case of "since I have it apart I might as well..." 4) Trying to adapt the donor car wiring. Painless wiring harness expensive? Consider my time at $10.00 per hour. Or $5.00 per hour... Painless starts to look like a *killer* deal. 5) Remembering I hated orange only *after* I laid the first coat on the fenders. 6) Painting and bodywork before the car was fully streetable. 7) Rebuilding my own motor. Done it before, nothing new there, not especially fun (any more), crate motors are cheap, reliable, and *warranteed*. 8) Keeping close track of the costs. It's going to be expensive, but not *nearly* as bad as buying a new car. For the "too much" money I've spent on the Z, I couldn't have made the first years' payments on a Civic, and that would have sucked. 9) Allowed the cats to live after walking on hours-old paint. Things I did *right*: 1. Found this sight, learned how to use the "search" function, then used it. A lot. 2. Went to a Z get-together (Rio Vista). Lots of good ideas, lots of good folks, excellent for helping to see the end of the tunnel. 3. *Memorized* the JTR book. 4. Considered the whole thing a "process", and not a way of getting a cool new car. "I've got a great project going" is a lot more fun than "It's not done yet". 5. Asked questions when stuck, even when they were dumb. A couple of them turned out to be important. 6. Gave up on "Better than factory". "Good enough for me" is much easier to reach, satisfactory. 7. Got a great woman (25 years ago - see, I'm always planning ahead) and then (sort of accidently) got her involved. Took her to the Z show (mentioned above), she mentioned she just loved that yellow Z, ultimately painted that car that color. Now she loves it (she was ambiguous before, now she actually looks out the back window at the car sitting there on stands and says "That's just the prettiest thing - thank you for painting it my color, honey..." Score!) 8. Deciding to do something special. I could have bought a Corvette, I guess, but every fat bald middle-aged guy in America has a 'Vette. I want to be the fat bald middle-aged guy in a pretty little yellow sleeper Monster-Zee. The difference is subtle, but important.

For any of the internal combustion/compu-gurus out there: I'm building a '72 with a 327/T5 as a high-performance commuter/touring car. So I'm looking for not just good power output, but (relatively) good mileage as well - as good as I can get. I have seen over the years that engine buildups with roughly the same power output vary widely in how much fuel they consume. I picked up Desktop Dyno to help me ballpark part combinations and horsepower numbers, but it's mostly aimed at straight power numbers, and doesn't (at least directly) calculate fuel burn/hp/hr, or thermodynamic (Carnot?) efficency. So my question is: with the numbers DD2k turns out, is there any way for me to predict how much fuel I'm going to burn, at least as a comparison? The program outputs a table for the engine setup with the following numbers at 500 RPM intervals: HP, Torque, Intake Manifold Pressure, Volumetric Efficiency %, IMEP (Indicated Mean Effective Pressure), FMEP (Friction Mean Effective Pressure), and BMEP (Brake Mean Effective Pressure). What I'd *like* to do is create a spreadsheet to calculate fuel burn/hp/hr at different RPM's and compare different setups: my build VS. LT1 sort of thing. Though the numbers will be for WFO, I think it would be reasonable to draw qualitative conclusions for other driving regimes (such as "My motor has a similar burn/hp/hr to an LT1 at 2500 RPM at WFO, therefore I will get similar mileage at normal cruising" kind of thing). And yes, I emailed Motion Software with the question some time in June, but I don't think they're going to get back to me.

As an old guy myself, I feel it's important to tell an "old guy is cool" story. One evening myself and my friend Adam (who had a '65 GTO /6-pack, got it cheap 'cause nobody wanted one in '72)) was at the local eatery in Galt (which is south of Sacramento and north of Stockton) impressing everybody with stories of smoky burnouts, brutal acceleration and incredible adventures in his goat, when this incredibly torn up old fart got out of his powder-blue Falcon parked on the other side of the parking lot and ambled over. He looked to be in his early sixties, but he must have been a ranch hand or farmer, 'cause he walked like every bone in his body had been broken a couple of times. So he eases over, clearly creaking in every joint, and all conversation stops 'cause, well, there's an adult nearby. He looks the goat over, real slow and theatrically, up, down, front, back - in retrospect, I'm sure it was practiced (actually I'm sure it was a show, put on for the benefit of the audience, who was not us)- with his ratty cowboy hat and a toothpick sticking out of the corner of his mouth. Then real slow he leans down to the passenger window where I'm sitting, takes the toothpick out, and says "So. When do you want to race this pig?" Well now Adam, who is quite full of himself and a cocksure guy to boot, and righteously indignant over the insult to his baby, just lights up with a big old grin like it was Christmas, kind of bounces up and down on his seat and goes "Right now Grandpa!" Adam is certain of himself because he knows he has the fastest car in Central California, onnacounta it's a GTO with glasspacks and '50's. Grandpa just grins a little, puts the toothpick back, and ambles back over the the Falcon. Now I'm looking over at this powder blue Falcon. From where I was sitting, it looked pretty stock. Its' wheels looked stock, it's cockpit looked stock. Seemed to have wide tires in the back, and I thought I saw some exhaust pipes sticking out in front of the back wheels, like some guys did to their pickups. Not very impressive, but I noticed the front end was really low, and the back was raised up a bit. Like a funny car, sort of, but, c'mon, it's a *Falcon*. Driven by an *old fart*. Now Adam's all excited, he's gonna whip some old guy in his factory Falcon, boy this is funny yuk yuk yuk, and he's pulling down his hood and climbing back into the car when the old guy lights up the Ford. It didn't just start: it started to squeal, sort of like a pig, I thought, but also sort of like those WW2 figher planes in the movies. Wheeeeeeeeeeee Wrrrrrrrrrrrrrr bump bump bump BRUMMMMMM BADUM BADUM BADUM! The whole parking lot was full, and I mean the air was heavy, with the sound of that motor. I swear to God my eyes were bouncing around in their sockets and little bits of gravel were vibrating around on the blacktop. It was an unbelievable noise. I looked up at the crowd at the burger joint, and oddly they weren't looking at the source of that incredible sound, they were all still looking at Adam, and a couple of them were grinning. Oh, Crap. I looked over at the Falcon again, and there was the farmer guy just putting it in reverse, and he glanced back, just for a moment, and grinned. I remember thinking "So this is what it's like to get set up..." but just then we started moving and I glanced back at Adam. He had seen the grin too, and had a look on his face like a small child has done something really expensive-bad and knew it and was going to get a whipping. Well, you know how it turned out. We drove over to the drag spot, followed by a few other cars. I got out to flag them, and as they pulled up to the line (which somebody had actually painted on the asphalt - very thoughtful) I got a glimpse inside the Falcon. There was, lets see, the driver's seat, a steering wheel, I imagine some pedals, s whole bunch of levers where the shifter should be, and that was it. Nothing else. Except of course where the back seat used to be, and now was a pair of tubs that looked like they were cut from 50 gallon drums. Front tires, little skinny ones on stock wheels. Back tires, I didn't even know how wide, but the wheels looked factory from the side, though they were, what, a foot and a half deep. Even had the little blue wheel covers. I remember thinking, "Jeez, that's deceptive..." as he lit them up. Both of them. Simultaneously. Rear end popped up a foot, but the car didn't move an inch, which I guess was because of the lever he pulled in the cockpit that seemed to be attached to just the front brakes. Hmmm. Never saw that before, it's a really good idea... Well, the spanking, as you can imagine, was brutal. Adam said the guy got a hole shot on him, which he did, but it was more like this: at the nanosecond the flag touched the ground the Falcon *exploded* off the line, and Adam pondered the implications for a few moments and then put his foot on the clutch...and then the inertia had to build up in that massive overweight Goatbody...and then the tires had to decide they wanted to talk to the road... Meanwhile the Falcon was just gone. The locals were laughing, the day was done. Turned out, of course, that the Falcon was actually semi-retired but had humiliated everybody in the Galt/South Sac area, and just waited, like a spider with a web, for full-of-themselves out-of-town greenhorns to drop by for a spot of tea and some friendly competition. I never found out what was under the hood, because Adam had to go back home immediately, for some reason I don't recall right now. But from that day forward, I always referred to the GTO as "The Pig". Adam didn't think it was especially funny, but I did.

How do they get the wires to fit so perfectly, length-wise? Custom sets, or are they trim-able in some way?

So if I walk into Pep Boys, what do I look for? Are all the Nissans similar, even as far back as the Z?

Well, I just shot 3 more coats. I took a different approach this time - all I cared about was "smooth". I was *considerably* more aggressive with the applications, laying on more paint, turning up the paint volume, going back as necessary when I spotted a problem. Yes, I created quite a few runs, but I know how to handle runs after it's dry. The overall result? Smooth as a baby's butt. I started early, moved quickly, and layed on the coats bang bang bang, as quick as I could mix a new batch. Like I said, there's some overspray and runs, but that's *handleable*. An interesting aside. After reading your mention of the three minute flash time, I performed an experiment: I laid out the "small pieces", such as the louver/vent panel (the piece behind the hood that hides the wiper motor - what's that called?), the valence, so on. They had been stripped bare and primered, sanded smooth with 220 wet. I prepared a "half-load" for them, and painted them one coat at a time then immediately went back and recoated them, taking about five minutes between coats. The result? Gorgeous. Perfectly smooth, no overspray (though they were sitting within inches of each other), no orangepeel, great coverage, perfect. Each coat just sort of melted into the previous one. At one point I spotted a bit of overspray and watched it melt into the previous coat. Interesting, eh? I think that if I need to do a project like this again, with the car disassembled, I'll prepare a load of paint for each part separately (such as left fender, right fender, hood, so on) and concentrate on them one at a time. Something else I learned: lighting is *important*. I used the rays of the sun to eyeball the paint after I finished each pass - I must have looked like an idiot, bouncing my head up and down, trying to put the sun's reflection in just the right place. If I spotted an under-coated area, I'd hose it down as necessary. Previously, I followed the "each pass should overlap the previous pass by half its' width" rule, but with my lack of skill that would frequently leave some areas more painted than others. You have to *see* what you've just put down, one way or another. Hmm. Something I really hadn't thought of, but I suppose is really obvious (especially in hindsight). This has been interesting. I'm sure I'll be cussing like a sailor Sunday when I start sanding out the runs, and there are areas I'll have to mask and repaint, but for right now it feels like a victory. Go me!

I talked to the guy at the paint store, he agreed that I was waiting way too long between coats - he said "Finish up the first coat, go over and mix up the next batch, filter it into the gun, and start on the next, so on." He also said the paint *has* to be tacky, and this is where the heat affects it the most because it causes it to catalyze too fast (like Bondo on a hot day) and the new layer doesn't integrate and spread out into the previous layer - when you're done, there will be one continuous coating of paint. He also suggested that the time between coats is the time between when I *start* painting the first part, to when I *start* the second coat on that part again, not to when I finish the last part. Does that make sense? The paint on the first part doesn't care how long I take getting the hood just right, it's just drying away regardless. Also, he suggested I not fiddle with different reducers and ratios - it's just too many variables for the beginner, it affects how the paint behaves when spraying, so on. Rather, he said, pick a time of day when the temperature is around 75 degrees, the temp for which everything is calibrated. Ten degrees either way is not a problem, so I should shoot the first coat real early when it's 70, and by the time I'm done it'll be 80 and the paint will be happy. On a practical note, earlier hours equals less sanding out of bug feet (they leave a little black dot. It's sad, but also a little funny). Also, the temperature of the *paint* is what matters, nothing else. So, keep the paint cans out of the sun, don't let sunlight fall directly on the car when painting (though this won't be a problem with the yellow I'm shooting). Overall, he said that if you think of catalyzed paint as epoxy (something I'm pretty familiar with), rather than the stuff you get in cans, you'll be doing OK. Finally, he said "Don't expect every area you paint to behave the same. The way you did the hood might not work on the fender. Watch what you've just sprayed, stop and study it if you need to, and adjust your spraying style to get it right." Consistency, he suggested, is the key for beginners. Properly done, it should require no sanding or smoothing, should be a consistent color, and have no texture at all - smooth as a mirror. Because I'm spraying over the same color again, I won't have to worry too much about coverage, and can concentrate on surface. I forgot to ask him about setting up the gun but for now I think I may have a handle on what's going on. I just keep telling myself "It's not a pain in the butt, it's a learning experience." Oh well, I've had *much* more expensive learning experiences, this one isn't too bad.

OK, I think I may have several problems here, but first I'll answer Racer's questions: I'm using an HVLP gun with the pressure at the gun regulator set to 25 psi, the compressor regulator set to 50 psi, there's a moisture separator on the line at the compressor. The paint is PPG "MTV" or "Omni TV" (depending on where you look on the can) in a green can, catalyst is PPG "Omni LV" (MH235, also in a green can), and the reducer is PPG MR 187 (purple can). The recommended mix ratio is 4:1:1, which I followed pretty closely. When I sprayed last Friday, it was really low humidity (maybe 25%). Temperature started at about 75 degrees at eight o'clock for the first coat, was about 85 at 9:30 for the second coat, and in the low nineties at 11:00 for the third coat, the one that curdled. I mixed separate batches for each coat. I've been looking around on the web, and I think I've identified a couple of things I did wrong. First, I think I waited too long, given the temperature, between coats. The paint was quite dry to the touch between coats, beyond just "tacky". Secondly, per the above response, I didn't adjust the ratio of reducer to paint, so it was drying too fast. I don't know how much to add for a particular temperature - or do I get some other reducer altogether? Another thing I think I did wrong is spray too little paint. There's a mark on the gun's nozzle that says "10psi Max", which I tried but it just wizzed out too little paint, with great big droplets. I didn't think that was right, so then I cranked it up to 25psi and I got a much better pattern with smaller droplets and more even pattern. Was that wrong? I adjusted the air feed almost wide open, then the paint. When sprayed on a vertical cardboard surface, it took maybe three or four seconds of constant spraying before runs began. The pattern was about 3" wide and 6" high when held about 10" from the surface. During each spray session I ended up turning up the paint feed just a bit, because my arm was getting tired. I've been working to clear off the texture, but I've managed to cut through now in several places so I'll be applying at least one more coat. I'll be going by the paint shop tomorrow morning, and ask the guy about this then. (It occurred to me that I should bring a sample with me to show him - one of the headlight buckets should do just fine). Hopefully I'll get some clarification then.

I'm painting my '72 with yellow PPG "MTV" paint, which is a one-stage catalyzed paint. I spent weeks prepping the car, bodywork and primering and dollying and whatnot, and got it pretty smooth. Well, not totally smooth but smooth enough. Anyway, I shot it last Friday morning in my semi-enclosed carport, first couple of coats looked just fine - picked out a bug here and there, one or two runs but no problem. However, as the day wore on it was getting warmer and I didn't really pay attention because I'm pretty used to it (central valley of California). By the time I got around to the third coat it was 11:00 or so and it was warm - in the low nineties, and the car was in direct sunlight. The third and final coat went on with a texture - it's like a really smooth orangepeel. Quite glossy, bonded on well, good coverage, but textured. Some areas are quite good, others are rough. I'd estimate that 1/2 the body area has got this texture to it. I spent the day today trying to see if I could sand it out, started with 1000 wet, went to 600 wet, and I just now experimented with 400 wet which cuts it flat in a reasonable amount of time. I haven't cut through anyplace, but I'm wondering how I should proceed. Probably I should just bite the bullet, sand it smooth, and put on a fourth coat, hmm? Or is it possible to salvage this mess? I'm not *really* sure what I did, though I suspect it was the heat, and I don't want to lay on another coat that will do the same thing. What do the old hands think?