Pop N Wood
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Posts posted by Pop N Wood
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I have been struggling with the same question. There are so many different brake options in so many different postings on this site that I often consider summarizing them all in one big posting.
300zx rotor/280zx calipers is one option. Unfortunately the JTR manual questions whether this option is really an upgrade, says the ZX brakes are no better than the stock 260 brakes.
The relatively low buck option I like is Toyota 4x4 4 piston calipers. Two options here, just the calipers or the calipers with a 300zx (or Z31?) rotors and spacer. Here is a link giving a cheap source of rebuilt calipers
http://www.hybridz.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=001209
Look back through the old links and you will find a LOT of discussion on this set up. Some people think the set up is too heavy. But what I have noticed is everyone who has this set up seems to like it. They say it stops hard every time.
Check out this excellent thread:
http://www.hybridz.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=001298
For rear brakes the general concensus is the stock drums in good shape are adequate 90% of the time. The JTR manual claims replacing the aluminum drums with cast iron ones from a Datsun 510 will improve performance, but I have yet to see even one posting that agrees with this statement.
Hope this helps.
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I recently asked much the same question. Here is the thread:
http://www.hybridz.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=001382
Hopefully Katman will get back with his ideas. The search function will return a BUNCH of info on cages. Probably won't find one simple answer.
There is a general HybridZ concensus that Pete Paraska's Z site details a set of excellent subframe connectors:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/pparaska/index.html
I have seen his Z and they look extremely nice down there.
Like DavyZ said, some of the experts are critical of the "production" cages. But remember, it is your Z and what is right for a full blown race car might not be the best solution for your needs.
What ever you do, post lots of pictures!! Maybe you will find the perfect street solution!!
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Yeow!!! Their PC122A model is a 22 gallon job that looks like it would fit where the spare tire well fits.
Price: $1,705.00.
(We need a graemlin of some guy getting slammed in the ***)
Wonder what a custom job runs!!!
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I was actually considering getting rid of mine, but didn't realize it had collectors value!! Think I'll keep it now, at least until my V8 swap is done.
The book is quite good, but unfortunately it is geared primarily toward 510's. There is one chapter in the back on 240's, but it is almost like an after thought. Does have a bunch of detailed pictures of the cages on both Bob Sharp and BRE racing Z's.
Kinda interestingly, they look upon the 240/280 engines and transmissions as one of the ultimate 510 upgrades.
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If yours is a 71 you will need a longer drive shaft. Just pick one up at a wrecking yard, no big deal. But this is a good thing. It makes a noticeable difference to get the rear driveline in the correct alignment.
The JTR manual spells out (with pictures) what you need. You need the pumpkin (the R200 itself), the R200 mustache bar, the longer driveshaft and the front differential cross piece. You can reuse the front differential mount (if it is still good), just turn it around front to back.
I don't remember doing anything with half shafts, pretty sure I reused the R180 shafts. Stub axels may be another deal. I think you need the stub axels from the R200. Either way pick up some new seals while you are doing the swap.
I also remember having to swap out the driveshaft yoke at the front of the diff. (I think I got a shaft from a turbo model, been some years ago so I am foggy on the details.) This goes a lot easier if you have an impact wrench, but wedging a long bar between two of the bolts and standing on the breaker bar attached to the nut works as well.
BTW, good deal on the car!! Saved some serious $$ this way.
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I T boned a Civic in my Tacoma PU, did $6000 worth of front end damage, twisted the frame from front to back and pushed the right front corner back 2 feet. No air bag explosion.
I am not sure what it takes to set one of those guys off. I know they have computers that are suppose to keep them from going off in a rear end or side collision. I am told some tap into the speedo to disable the bags if the car is going too slow.
But I also read a year or two ago cops were asking for cut off switches because people would wait until the cop had them stopped, put it in reverse and ram the front of the cruiser to set off the air bag. They would then take off and the cops couldn't follow because of this huge bag between their arms.
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JTR and MSA sell kits with everything you need. No welding, just hand tools, a hammer and probably a saw/air chisel to remove the transmission tunnel mounts.
Now chassis mods (roll bar, sub frame connectors, etc.) to keep the car from twisting are another matter....
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Might want to check out this old thread.
http://www.hybridz.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002237
Rambles through several different topics, but does express numerous opinions concerning FI/carbs in a boosted set up. You may contact 1fastZ, he seems pretty knowledgeable on the topic.
But I think your basic question was just the idea of a turbo V8 in a Z. Like you said, seems a bit overkill but man, you would be awesome!!! Have seen quite a bit of discussion of this in old threads. There will be an issue of space in the Z, especially with a twin turbo, but probably nothing unworkable. A number of people have stated that the Ford guys like boost because it is the only way they can be competative with a NA 350 Chevy
(One over the bow, guys!)If you turbo a 350 cid, then plan on big mods to the drivetrain.
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There is some machine work required to make a 350 block work with 383. Same with the crank. I think that is what they mean by a "383 block"
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Katman
I have read several of your previous posts concerning cages. They seem really well informed. I for one would value you summarizing your ideas on what makes a good cage (for both street and race). Or better yet, show us pictures!
I want to stiffen my street Z to better handle V8 torque but I don't really want to go all out Dukes of Hazard with it. Any pointers?
Also I have often wondered what has to be done to the stock dash when a cage is run through it. Anyone have any pictures? Or is it time to break out the aluminum sheet and build a new dash?
Thanks in advance
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If you like elaborate cages, you may want to get the book "how to hotrod and race your datsun". The have beaucoup pictures of either Bob Sharp racing or the BRE race car cages. Very detailed, very elaborate. The car was a very successful racer so don't know how you could do better. If I remeber right it did not have as many cross pieces in the back.
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My 1970 240 always got around 25 mpg. Very livable.
There were two differnt carbs used on the early Z's. 70-72 used early SU's. 73 and up (to I think 75) used a later model of SU that was modified for emissions reasons. Somewhere around 1976 the American Z's went to fuel injection.
The 73-75 carbs are generally considered to be poor carbs. They tend to vapor lock when hot and just generally don't work well. The early SU's are very sweet carbs. They are a design that has been around forever, easy to tune and synchronize and simply don't have many vices. The only real draw back is the lack of a power valve makes cold weather starting a little (but only a little) more difficult. Thus people with the 73+ smog carbs often upgraded to the earlier carbs not so much for performance reasons but to make the cars more pleasant to drive.
I did end up replacing my SU's with dual downdraft Webers from Motor Sport Auto (MSA, an California based company specializing in mail order Z parts). I did this because my SU's developed vacuum leaks through the worn throttle shaft bushings. Rebuilding the SU's was going to cost just as much as the CA smog legal Webers so I figured I would give the down drafts a try. The Webers were slightly better performers (and probably have better upgrade potential given other performance mods), but if I had it to do all over again I would rebuild the SU's. They just look more at home under the hood.
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The picture of the car went around the internet about a year or two ago. Here is the caption i got with the pic:
Home Depot / True story ....
This picture was taken in Waldorf, MD by a Transportation Supervisor for
a company that delivers building materials for 84 Lumber. When he saw it
there in the parking lot of IHOP, he went and bought a camera to take
pictures. The car is still running as can be witnessed by the exhaust. A
woman is either asleep or otherwise out in the front seat passenger side.
The guy driving it was over jogging up and down on Rt. 925 in the
background. The witnesses said their physical state was OTHER than normal
and the police just shook their heads in amazement. The driver finally
came back after the police were there and was getting down at the back to
cut the 'twine around the load. They told him to get back until it was
taken off. The materials were loaded at Home Depot. Their store manager
said they had the customer sign a waiver! Both back tires are trashed. The
back shocks were driven up through the floorboard. In the back seat are 10
bags, 80 lbs. each of concrete. On the roof are many 2X4s, 4X4s and OSB
sheets of lumber. They estimated the load weight at 3000 lbs. The car is
a VW Jetta with FL plates and the guy said he was headed for Annapolis.
JUST UNBELIEVABLE!!!!
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Just hit a wrecking yard and get the rebuildable type. Pre 1975 just like stated above. Half shaft U joints are the same thing.
Trouble is, the JTR manual says the ones with grease fittings tend to crack under V8 torque at the grease fittings.
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As the Miller Beer commercial says, reach for the Hot Wrench (i.e. cutting torch).
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You don't have to move the hood latch if you go distributorless ignition. Such as the stock LT1/4 engines. Or add an electromotive multi coil system.
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Trevor: Thanks for the measurements. What about the "installation instructions"?
BTW, where do you suppose the door lock button is in the picture?
Actually I would like to know more about the frame supports and the "longitudinal crossmember" (were talking the car this time). Looks like there are two cross bars in the picture. One is probably between the tops of the strut towers. The second connects to the back of the subframe connectors
I can kinda guess how the subframe connectors are configured, but the cross frame thing I need some more info for. Also what size channel is used etc. etc.
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You have a couple of options on radiators. The big thing to keep in mind that whatever works on a V8 will also work on a stock 260. Even the stock engines can use the extra cooling capacity.
Your first option is to have your stock radiator rebuilt to use a 3 or 4 row core. Any good radiator shop can do this. The only problem with this approach is the stock radiators are pretty heavy.
Your second approach would be to get an aluminum radiator build for a V8. One popular swap is a radiator from a late Camaro. Search the old postings since it doesn't have to be a Camaro. A lot of guys are also reporting good luck with an aluminum Griffin radiator from Summit Racing. Once again, search the old postings.
That "part" in front of your radiator is most likely the air conditioning condensor. This is a completely different animal from the radiator.
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The book "How to Hot Rod and Race your Datsun" has a section on chassis stiffining for the 240. They don't give a lot of detail, but they to show a LOT of picture of a BRE (I think) modified race car. One thing they did highlight was the bracing added to the TC mount. If memory serves me they formed a piece of sheet metal to overlap the TC bracket where it mounts to the frame rail (while extending well onto the rail). The sheet metal was then welded in place essentially doubling the thickness of the stock unibody.
Seemed like a straight forward mod. Not sure how this would be "removable". You must have a different method in mind.
Maybe RB30-ZED could post a picture of his mod (if it was him)?
BTW, I was hoping to get some good roll cage ideas from the book above a, but the tubing on the all out race machine shown in the book was too overwhelming for a me.
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Want more details. Who is going to order the kit then post detailed measurements and installation instructions?
The subframe connectors look somewhat like Pete Paraska's (but with 3 or 4 tabs to mount them to the underside of the Z). But not sure what is up with the longitudinal bar going across the back.
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Phew! You obviously haven't met my mother in law.
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Can anyone speculate on how obvious the MSA fiberglass bumpers are? Most early Z bumpers end up painted anyway. Is there any chance they could pass for stock, at least at highway speeds?
How many guys out there are running fiberglass units and have you ever been ticketed for them?
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I have never heard or read anything about a carb cooling the intake charge. But the idea is sound. Water Methanol Injection is a common way to cool the intake charge to prevent detonation (thus allowing higher compression/boost for a given octane).
In thermodynamic terms, the liquid is "evaporated" as it is sprayed into the incoming air. This causes the liquid to absorb heat. The amount of heat required to convert a liquid into a vapor is called the latent heat of vaporization. Typically this number is very high for a hydrogen based liquid (such as water or methanol). Conversely, the heat capacity of air is relatively low. This means a large drop in air temperature is required to vaporize a relatively small amount of liquid.
And as any hotrodder knows, cooler air is denser air. Thus you have the dual benefit of forcing more oxygen into the cylinders while reducing the chance of premature ignition (detonation). Hence allowing more boost or compression or timing advance. And like I have said in the past, this type of thing was used heavily in WW2 aircraft.
I guess one question I have is if both a carb and FI are injecting gas into the air stream, they why wouldn't they both experience the same cooling effect?
About time for Grumpyvette to chime in with some links!!!
new z kid
in Gen I & II Chevy V8 Tech Board
Posted
Interesting comment about 240's cracking around the rear quarter window and bumper. My 70 has cracks in the paint in the C pillars. I always thought the car had been in a slight accident at some time in it's life. Never would have guessed chassis flex but it makes sense.
Really can't go wrong with any of the variants. Just find a rust free car at a good price and be happy. The 240's and early 260's had the smaller bumpers which look WAY better than the latter models. But like the JTR manual says, the weight gain was due in part to stiffer frames so that is an advantage.