maichor
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Posts posted by maichor
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I had questions again about my swap so I will post a writeup I started a while back. I will be adding to it. Let me know what you want to know and I can add it.
Enjoy!
Putting and independent rear suspension from a Nissan 240SX into and early Datsun Z car
Tools Used:
TAPE MEASURE, TAPE MEASURE, TAPE MEASURE!
Hammer
Pry bar,
Metric wrenches
Angle grinder
Sawzall
Drill
MIG Welder
Parts:
R200 from a Q45
Moser custom axles
Complete IRS from a 240SX,
upper arms are from a Q45 because they are stronger and solid cast
240SX hubs were replaced by Q45 hubs
240SX brakes were replaced by 90-96 300ZXTT brakes
Rear Wheels are 17 X 10.5 Cobra R wheels 6.95†back space
Michelin XGT 335/35/17’s from a Viper
What is involved:
Cutting out a significant part of the rear subframe of the Z and reinforcing the area for the 240SX mounting points.
Welding in plates for the mounting points.
Centering and drilling holes for mounting bolts (I used the original mustache bar mounting holes and bolted a plate to that with the 240SX mounting points centered to that and with the proper alignment front to back.) I also moved the suspension back about .75†to center the tires in the wheel well. Stock Z has the tire forward a bit.
CAUTIONS:
Not for the faint of heart. This requires several trial fits with cutting in between.
I did this on a 1972 240Z with a Velo Rossa kit ~10†wider than a stock Z.
I am using an F-body fuel tank to go with my LS1. Make sure the suspension will clear your tank, it should.
You may lose the stock seatbelt locations. I always planned on harnesses, so I did not try to save them.
Things to remember:
The 240SX subframe puts the differential on center. The 240Z has the motor off to the passenger’s side by about ¾â€
I mounted my subframe all the way up under the body, (i.e. as high as it will go in the rear.) What is important is to mount it in line with the transmission so your driveline angles will be as near as possible.
How the concept developed:
I started my project looking for a way to accomplish a few things. The Velo Rossa body kit for the early Z car has about 5†of extra width per side over stock. So, I wanted to fill the wheel wells with tire. That meant wheels. Try to find a 17†or larger wheel that is also 10.5 to 11†wide. That proved impossible on my budget. Instead of custom wheels, I looked at 5 lug options. At the same time I was looking to beef up the rear end and had come across the R230 conversion that some had done at http://www.hybridz.org. It turns out that I was really looking at an R200VLSD and not the R230. I later Bought a 300ZXTT diff (R230 with 3.7 gears and swapped it in.) Back to the story… I went to the junkyards looking for R200 differentials out of 90’s Infiniti Q45’s. I found three in the first yard I tried. I spent an hour and a half piecing together the rear suspension from a Q45 and a J30. All the pieces looked interchangeable. I found a 240SX (S14) with the same setup. I was very impressed at the engineering of the setup. I also stacked the subframes for each of the cars next to each other and found that the Q45 was an inch wider than the J30 and that was about and inch wider than the 240SX. I tested the Q45 R200 in the subframe for the 240SX. It fit. I went home and started thinking about the swap. I would have 5 lugs 5 on 4.5â€. I would also have a working Ebrake, larger vented disc rotors, and a very well designed multi-link setup.
I knew someone with a J30, so the next day, when I saw her, I pulled out my tape and measured outer edge of the tires. It came out to be ~69†(Velo Rossa rear tub is 70†wide.) I also checked to see if wider wheels would clear the rest of the suspension on the inboard side. I guessed I could get another inch on each side there with the right backspacing on the wheels.
I went back to the yard determined to figure it out. I took measurements of the 240SX mounting points to see if it would fit under the Z and where it would have to be mounted. I also wanted to take the best parts from the cars to make the suspension. The axles for the Q45 were 1mm larger from what I could tell trying to fit them in the J30 hubs. The 240SX axles were 1mm smaller. I looked at the mounting of the hubs and it looked like I could swap the Q45 hubs into the outer 240SX link assembly. I didn’t have my tools but I told the yard what I wanted. So, I bartered a price for the whole rear IRS but told the guy I wanted specific parts from each vehicle. Once we decided on a price, the guys in the yard helped me swap out the hubs. It was easy. I took the brakes from the J30 because they were vented rotors instead of solid. They bolted up as well. I later went with 90’-96’ 300ZXTT brakes which are a direct bolt on.
Have some photos at photos.yahoo.com/maichor75104
If you have other requests, let me know and I can post more.
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Nope! Terry that is just black gel coat covered in a thick layer of dust.
I took that pick to draw in the exhaust tips to see where I want them. You are the master, any suggestions. I was thinking just inside the wheels but out as wide as possible.
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:D
It has been an awesome day! I have had the car so close to "test ready" for weeks. Today I pulled the jackstands and laid rubber to the pavement. I took my wife on the maiden voyage. We had a short run since I have no lights, signals etc. I had a buddy of mine tail us just in case. All she could say was, "You promised to take it slow." The LS1 ran well but was deafening through open headers. My wife traded seats with my friend Eric (Drives a 400RWHP Vette). I used up the 3 1/2 year old gas on the second ride. I put in a few gallons of fresh juice and had one more run. We went behind the airport on some empty roads WOW! It was night and day. The LS1 pulls big time. Even let Eric drive for comparison to his Vette. He was very complimentary.
:flamedevil: Things that have me grinnin':
1) Hits hard and keeps pullin'
2) The car drives very nicely.
3) Easy clutch and brake work.
4) Car gets back in line well after going sideways
5) No leaks, gauges all work
6) Zero wheel hop. Love the R230 VLSD and suspension
Things that bother me:
1) Some misfires early on, no more with new gas. Time to chang a filter.
2) Tons of work still to do. Exhaust, all body work, paint, etc.
3) I am not street legal yet so I can't really drive it around.
One of the highlights was when Eric said that he had a blast and he thought it was very quick. He wants me to rent a tow dolly and go to the track to run with him!
Frankly, I am amazed the car ran so well, straight, smooth, etc. I don't mean to brag, but I am pleased that all the hard work has paid off. 3 and half years worth. Remember, I basically have built the car from scratch. Even the Unibody is totally changed. I have the IRS from a 240SX with 300zxtt diff and brakes in the rear, shortend, custom axles, fabricated tons of stuff for the rear. Driveline is less than one degree off. I am running 275/40/17's in front and 335/35/17's in back. The rest of the mods are tried and true. 4X4 Brakes up front with Z31 5 lugs. G-machine setup for lower control arms etc. Motor is a 2001 LS1/T56 with 10K miles from a WS6 TA and is stock except 1 5/8" headers, cold air intake, LS6 intake (stock in 2001) and an ASP 25% underdrive pulley) and has only 10k miles. I also did the swap the hard way and have new fuel lines, brake lines, radiator, wiring, etc. etc.
What a great day! I have some videos but no place to post them.
Here are a few pics.
My big ol' fat butt.
My big ol' fat butt again strapping my wife into the harness.
Me getting in for the ride of my life!
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Speaking of adapting the 6 bolt R230 300ZXTT, You do not have to machine your own adapter. There is a nice one you can get from Powertrain Industries. They are used to convert to a one-piece driveshaft, (the ZX had a 2-piece with weird joint in back). However, they are always backordered and takes about 1-2 months. Plan ahead and order it early in your swap. EDIT: Uses a 1310 series U-joint.
Here is the contact:
Part #3102-42
http://www.powertrainindutries.com
(714) 893-4585
7532 Anthony Ave.
Garden Grove, CA 92841
Price is steep at $116.
You will also have a hard time finding 10 X 1.25 X 25 Allen head bolts. The round head is necessary to clear the yoke. I searched everywhere and finally went with Gardner Wescott 1-800-521-9805. 10 X 1.25 X 30 Chrome grade 8 was all they had and were $2.46 each! But they look cool!
P.S. I can't believe this thread is still alive!
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Rowing through the gears is a blast. The control is nice. But, if you want to be in the 11 second club, you will have a harder time with the T56. I have ridden with Phantom and Lonestar1. The auto is quite a bit quicker. Sorry Bill!
Case in point- one of my friends has a manual C5 Vette FRC with 400RWHP. His dad liked the car so much, he bought an auto C5 and put the same mods on the car.
Results:
Manual C5: low 12's.
AutoC5: High 10's
You can be in the 11 second club with the T-56, but you can do it much easier with the auto. That said, I went with the 6-speed!
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No kill in this story but, as long as we are telling stories . . .
About 10 years ago my brother had a built Mustang. He drives fast. All the time fast. You know, too fast to ride with because you are afraid of dying. Anyway, one day he heads off to the local college for a class he was taking. He wasn't really late, just likes to drive fast. He flies though a light and there was an undercover detective to his right waiting to turn. The detective takes off after him but the college is accross town and you have to zig zag a few blocks to get there. So, my clueless brother just keeps flying down these surface streets at 80+ mph. Meanwhile the detective totally lost him and radios for back up. 3 more cops saw him from a block away as he flies through several more intersections. He never saw any of them. 5 minutes later he pulls up to the college and hops out with his book bag and three cop cars and the detective come screeching into the parking lot, come sliding to a stop all around him and all pull their guns on him.
: He got his license suspended, several, hundred dollar wreckless diriving ticket, and some soiled briefs. I guess he looked so surprised that the cops believed him when he said he didn't know they were trying to pull him over. He was lucky not to get nailed with evading or worse!
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Yup, very cool. But even more cool to build a car yourself and beat up on the AWD higher $ cars.
Some great kills there. Congrats! -
Cool. 240SX subframe and parts are much cheaper and virtually the same. You should swap out the diff axles and hubs for Q45 or 300ZXTT parts.
And here's one of my build pics getting ready to weld the mounts in for the 300ZXTT R230. Q45 R200 bolts right in, but I wanted to use this diff. Low miles and very beefy. In fact, IMO this will be much tougher than the Skyline setup with larger CV shafts brakes etc.
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Sorry to hear it. Maybe your Z has some sort of virus and gave it to you. The "No Boost Virus" has been going around lately.
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Hey, I know you want to keep the stock gauges, but I still think an electronic speedo is a great solution.
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C4 Vette gives you gear choices and easy to find parts. It will be plenty stout. Supra setup will not be as tough and parts may be more $$. I have 240SX suspension with an R230 inserted where the 200 used to be. The ring gear is larger than a Ford 9". I never plan on breaking it, but if I do . . . $$$. My biggest complaint has been that I didn't get all the little pieces (rear suspension was totally disassembled, no bolts etc.). I have probably spent $100 on hardware. Axle nuts were $25 for both from the dealer. Whichever way you go, get it all! Judging by how fast you knocked out the LS1, you should be fine. I ended cutting out a lot of the old Datsun unibody and made new mounting points. Despite being a rookie fabricator, I was able to do the swap.
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Congrats! Sometimes you just gotta feed a little speed to your ride!
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Astin Martins are beautiful, but they are not mass produced and as I understand it, they are hand built. So, if you throw in that car, you have to include some car builders in the US that do it by hand. Shelby Series 1, Panoz, which is Ford powered, Saleen. They imply that the Corvette is the best the US has ever produced. The goal of the Vette was never to be the finest sportscar in the world. The goal has been to produce an affordable fun machine that kicks some tail. To me, it is a success. And, although I may never be able to afford one of the more exotic sports cars, I could own a Vette.
Growing up, my Dad had two Rover cars and two land rovers. All of them were in and out of the shop constantly. Just one experience. But, it is my experience.
As far as car shows that critique, Car and Driver has a TV show. For the most part, they are unbiased and tell it like it is. They very much take into account prices and what the car was designed to do. I did not get that feeling from these guys. But, did you notice that the one who drove the Vette had to admit it was a lot of fun to drive!
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It is so much fun to tip a car up on its side. Nice job!
You probably already have the Rhino lining stuff, but if you don't I would go with POR-15. It is expensive, but you can do the undercarriage, the whole inside of the car and the engine bay for about $150 all told (metal ready etc.) I was so impressed with that stuff. WOW, Bullet proof. Just do it all at once because it is activated by oxygen. Rhino lining will be awesome too, but I don't believe that it reacts with rust like POR-15. Isn't it just a sealer to keep O2 out to prevent rust? I am not sure about that one, but POR-15 actually eats the rust, so to speak.
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Sorry to chime in, but I have to. My little rant belongs in non-tech, but I have to complain a little about this. Autozone does have the part also. At least the one by my house did. However, I had to jump behind the counter and read a few labels to find it. I have built a decent relationship with the guys here and so they let me do stuff like that.
COMPUTER MONKEY!
That is the title that my brother, who is a night manager at an Autozone, gives to the guys that learn how to enter year make and model to find a part. They refuse to use their brains, so if you don't know what it came from, you are out of luck and they don't have it. You can know everything about the part itself, but that doesn't always help. Many guys do not even know how to search for part numbers.
When I was in D/FW (Cedar Hill) before our move to Harlingen, it was a nightmare. On one visit, where they didn't have that part, "maybe try a dealership," my brother was with me an actually looked up the tie rod end by thread pitch, taper, and length out of their own manual to tell them a car that used it. Then, magically, "oh, here it is, in fact we have 3." My brother- not a computer monkey.
Ok, almost done. Here is the kicker, the same guy gets a phone call when we are looking for a part # for him. It went something like this:
"OK, what car is it for?"
"A'96 Prelude, un huh, what kind of car?"
"Yeah, I know it's a Prelude, but what KIND of car?"
"Yeah, that's what I mean, who makes it?"
"Honda, thank you. Just a second" COMPUTER MONKEY started typing.
I kid you not. It was very sad. I just wish the Computer Monkey wasn't so prevalent. I love it when I run into a guy that has cars on the brain, in the blood, and knows enough to help.
Sorry about that. I'm really not a negative guy. Really!
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Yummy! Glad you cot rid of the small projector style lights. It looks so great with the 7" lights. Now you are ready for another magazine article. Simply beautiful.
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Look at his signature. He has pics there. A lot of them! Have fun!
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I used the mounts I came up with a long time ago. I have since added a plate that runs along the frame rails runder the stock cross member and mine. It is all one piece and absolutely bullet proof. It is too bad I won't be driving this off road!
I know I said it last weekend, but I only got about an hour to work on it. Hopefully, this weekend will be the test drive. -
Nice! Man, I love your car! The only problem with your car Terry, is that it looks wicked fast standing still, even in all its primered glory. I'd be afraid to race you! Case in point, I have a buddy that used to have a pretty quick Camaro and everybody wanted to race. He surprised a lot of people. He now has C5 Vette FRC. It has Z06 Wheels etc. Not as many people mess around with him as he would like.
Nice Kill!
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15" will be worse because a shorter wheel will ride closer to the spring and perch because they angle away from the tire as they go up. I didn't explain it well, but I think you know what I am getting at. Also, Those wheels probably have a FWD offset, so they will have a large backspace. Again, you have to compare the wheels you are looking at to stock and others that have done this. You should be able to find tons of threads on wheel fitment. It is all here, just keep digging.
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My wife has been waiting for to park the car in the garage for 3 years due to my project mess. Now I have a lift kit coming for our Jeep Cherokee and need to get the rear suspension bolted back in for the Velo Rossa to install the lift. And, I also am supposed to build a bed for my son. All of this is going to hit on the same weekend, (this one) and I have to work half-day Saturday. Needless to say, this will probably stretch out for a long time.
The good news is, the Velo Rossa should be drivable this weekend! The bad news is, it is far from "done!"
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I think he ment do you have the belt on the correct side of the pulley. It is possible to have the belt on the pulley but not have it turning the pulley 100%. In other words is the smooth side where it should be and is the ribbed side where it should be?
Thanks, and yes, I know what he meant. I said that about the motor tongue and cheek. The water pump does run off the back of the belt and the ribbed side is on the crank pulley. That is definitely not the problem. There is a plug by the starter and the TB gets coolant from the heads, I did a bypass, but maybe I could use one of those to bleed the system. About the heater. I did not know it would cause a problem. I'll have to sort that out or cap it off for now.
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Wow, thanks for the great posts, I guess I will try the purge procedure and see what happens. I guess I was giving up too early. As for the thermostat, I will try that next. And no, there is no way that my belt is running backward (unless the whole motor is running backwards!) Thanks again guys.
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Well, I finally got my driveshaft. I have been waiting for months for the 300ZXtt one piece driveshaft conversion flange to have it made. Hopefully, next week you will be reading about my first drive. That is not my problem.
Most of you LS1 guys know about my project. The motor has 10K miles on it but has been sitting for more than a year. I have had the motor running for some time, but the coolant is not circulating. I pulled the water pump, it appeared to be fine. Pulled the thermostat, still no go. When the motor was out of the car, I tried to blast the coolant passages with a hose and water did come out the other side. So, I replaced the pump anyway. So, now the motor is back in the car and still no go.
I have a hose circulating the feed and return for the heater. I also have and ASP underdrive pulley. I have had the motor up to 220 degrees. I dare not go any further until I figure out what is wrong.
HELP ME PLEASE! Could I have blockage? How hot is too hot (where I am risking damage to the motor). What would you do?
Phantom, I read a post where you said it took a while to blow the crud out of your block. How long and what temp?
Thanks
:flamedevil: 
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It's ALIVE! --1st drive-- Maichor's LS1 Velo Rossa
in Gen III & IV Chevy V8Z Tech Board
Posted
Thanks guys. Mas280, sure stop on by. I'm ~20 minutes from Brownsville. P.S. Drive your Z or the RX7.
Tannji- I started a thread with an unfinished write-up I was doing. It is in the suspension forum.
Terry- I am kind of committed to the tips I got off eBay a while back. They are 6" X 4" ovals with a 3" straight pipe through the middle and a spiral outer chamber. http://www.powereffects.com. What can I do with these?
Not the cat, I mean the tips. I thought the large scale would be OK because of the large tires.